Guest Sloth Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 It's the only scientific theory of the universe's creation that we have. Until someone comes up with a better scientific theory, then the big bang theory is the correct one. Discussion of belief systems is in no way relevant to science learning. After a discussion on the big bang theory, a teacher can quickly add there are other beliefs of how our universe created. And that is all the teacher would need day. No need to elaborate. No mention of anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 After a discussion on the big bang theory, a teacher can quickly add there are other beliefs of how our universe created. And that is all the teacher would need day. No need to elaborate. No mention of anything else. Why mention it at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Why mention it at all? To let the students know that what their families raised them as is still possibly true. To let students know they can seek the beliefs they feel are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 To let the students know that what their families raised them as is still possibly true. To let students know they can seek the beliefs they feel are right. Because teaching the big bang theory does that? Last I checked, teaching the big bang theory hasn't traumatized generations of Christians so much that they abandon their beliefs. I see absolutely no reason to pay lip service to religion in a science class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 When did I ever mention a science class or theology? If you want to talk about it being in a science class, I do believe a teacher should be allowed, not going into detail, to say there are other beliefs and theories of how things began and it's up to the students to choose what they want to believe. Sure, the students still have to learn and understand the scientific information provided to them to further develop their cognitive thinking, but they should not be taught in a manner as if the big bang theory is the only one that could be correct. Catch my drift? I'm bringing it up because I was talking about science classes in my earlier post and you specifically mentioned how you want the Theory of Christianity to be taught. Christianity and any type of Intelligent Design concepts should never be taught in science class or even brought up because they do not use the scientific method and are not science in any way, shape, or form. All that stuff that you want to be taught should be taught in a class on religion or theology and not intertwined with actual science to confuse the students. To even suggest that Intelligent Design even belongs in the same conversation with evolution, the big bang theory, natural selection, etc. is completely incorrect and as DarkSabre said there's no need to waiste even a second of time paying it lip service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am constantly amazed at how many intelligent people are athiest. The whole idea of science is always evolving itself. It is about trying to figure crap out that is hard to comprehend and wrong theories are brought forth and accepted until someone comes up with something better. It is impossible to have science 100% correct, because if you ever do.....you will in essence "reverse" the big bang theory that is oh so popular. Instead of admitting humans are not capable of understanding, it's easier to just fluff off creation as some crazy random event. There are so many encounters in life and events that seem like crazy random events. At least that is how an athiest views it. If you really took time to reflect on the probability of things that happen in life, and how many 1 in a billion things take place on a personal level at just the right moment, I don't know how an intelligent person CAN'T see the fact that there is some higher power that acts as a sheepdog of sorts and herds us all to where we need to be. When you believe it, you see it. It's really an amazing thing to have in your life. Sure, a lot of religion is mind-f'ng yourself.....and organized factions can cause a lot more harm than good, but to deny a higher power is just flat out crazy, or the height of narcissism. I feel bad for friends that don't have this understanding. Plenty of good people too. Science is graded on a curve. God made the test....he wants you to figure it out.....but he laughs at those who celebrate getting a 12% and being rewarded with a Nobel Prize of an A+, yet who are too silly to figure out the only way you get 100 is to understand you never will get a 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am constantly amazed at how many intelligent people are athiest. The whole idea of science is always evolving itself. It is about trying to figure crap out that is hard to comprehend and wrong theories are brought forth and accepted until someone comes up with something better. It is impossible to have science 100% correct, because if you ever do.....you will in essence "reverse" the big bang theory that is oh so popular. Instead of admitting humans are not capable of understanding, it's easier to just fluff off creation as some crazy random event. There are so many encounters in life and events that seem like crazy random events. At least that is how an athiest views it. If you really took time to reflect on the probability of things that happen in life, and how many 1 in a billion things take place on a personal level at just the right moment, I don't know how an intelligent person CAN'T see the fact that there is some higher power that acts as a sheepdog of sorts and herds us all to where we need to be. When you believe it, you see it. It's really an amazing thing to have in your life. Sure, a lot of religion is mind-f'ng yourself.....and organized factions can cause a lot more harm than good, but to deny a higher power is just flat out crazy, or the height of narcissism. I feel bad for friends that don't have this understanding. Plenty of good people too. Science is graded on a curve. God made the test....he wants you to figure it out.....but he laughs at those who celebrate getting a 12% and being rewarded with a Nobel Prize of an A+, yet who are too silly to figure out the only way you get 100 is to understand you never will get a 100. It never fails to amaze me how many people have no clue how science works. And as far as your coincidence thing goes? It's the law of large numbers. It's not being atheist, it's knowing how math works. Holy crap this thread has taken a turn for the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 It never fails to amaze me how many people have no clue how science works. And as far as your coincidence thing goes? It's the law of large numbers. It's not being atheist, it's knowing how math works. Holy crap this thread has taken a turn for the worse. You get a 3%.....God laughs.....but he still loves you because you are from Cheektowaga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am constantly amazed at how many intelligent people are athiest. The whole idea of science is always evolving itself. It is about trying to figure crap out that is hard to comprehend and wrong theories are brought forth and accepted until someone comes up with something better. It is impossible to have science 100% correct, because if you ever do.....you will in essence "reverse" the big bang theory that is oh so popular. Instead of admitting humans are not capable of understanding, it's easier to just fluff off creation as some crazy random event. There are so many encounters in life and events that seem like crazy random events. At least that is how an athiest views it. If you really took time to reflect on the probability of things that happen in life, and how many 1 in a billion things take place on a personal level at just the right moment, I don't know how an intelligent person CAN'T see the fact that there is some higher power that acts as a sheepdog of sorts and herds us all to where we need to be. When you believe it, you see it. It's really an amazing thing to have in your life. Sure, a lot of religion is mind-f'ng yourself.....and organized factions can cause a lot more harm than good, but to deny a higher power is just flat out crazy, or the height of narcissism. Please provide the proof for your assertions. :) Maybe I'm a strange atheist, I don't discount the possibility there is a omnipotent being out there guiding things. Or maybe even a rather-potent being that doesn't know all but a lot. But there's not proof either way, so it seems pretty reckless to claim with certainty either way. In any case, there's a few things I can't get my head around: - if I were all knowing, the last thing I'd want is a bunch of people grovelling and constantly telling me how awesome I am. I know, they know, good enough. - what does god need with a space-ship? (joking there) (Let's keep this civil, folks. These are my beliefs and I don't really feel the need to argue about them. I'm right, you're wrong, na-nee na-nee poo poo.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Please provide the proof for your assertions. :) Maybe I'm a strange atheist, I don't discount the possibility there is a omnipotent being out there guiding things. Or maybe even a rather-potent being that doesn't know all but a lot. But there's not proof either way, so it seems pretty reckless to claim with certainty either way. In any case, there's a few things I can't get my head around: - if I were all knowing, the last thing I'd want is a bunch of people grovelling and constantly telling me how awesome I am. I know, they know, good enough. - what does god need with a space-ship? (joking there) (Let's keep this civil, folks. These are my beliefs and I don't really feel the need to argue about them. I'm right, you're wrong, na-nee na-nee poo poo.) I think agnostic is the way to go. That's cool. I have no idea how it all works either. I'd like to hope that most of it comes down to the Golden Rule and a pure heart. I'm not trying to belittle anyone. Most of my best friends are athiest or agnostic. I don't think anyone enjoys getting something hammered into them. I just like the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Holy crap this thread has taken a turn for the worse. Yeah. It may not last the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yeah. It may not last the night. Is that your scientific opinion, or are you upset that people have looked past the gift of your creationism and made it about themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yeah. It may not last the night. It's all part of God's plan. My sympathies to you and the thread's family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohansrage Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 There are so many encounters in life and events that seem like crazy random events. At least that is how an athiest views it. If you really took time to reflect on the probability of things that happen in life, and how many 1 in a billion things take place on a personal level at just the right moment, I don't know how an intelligent person CAN'T see the fact that there is some higher power that acts as a sheepdog of sorts and herds us all to where we need to be. When you believe it, you see it. It's really an amazing thing to have in your life. Sure, a lot of religion is mind-f'ng yourself.....and organized factions can cause a lot more harm than good, but to deny a higher power is just flat out crazy, or the height of narcissism. There are many things in the universe we cannot explain. That is not evidence that a divine power made them. It's evidence we haven't figured them out yet. EDIT: I replace "sky fairy" with "divine power" It was a snarky comment and I apologize for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Let's look at it from this perspective. And this is something I'm sure physicists and/or atheists try to stay away from, because it does contradict many of their arguments. Anything that is been brought into existence must have some type of cause. Correct? Since the universe came into existence, there had to be a cause. Wouldn't the cause be God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 There are many things in the universe we cannot explain. That is not evidence that a sky fairy made them. It's evidence we haven't figured them out yet. Would it be fair of me to say that using my knowledge in the science of psychology, a person who is not capable or does not want to believe in a higher power does so to pacify their innermost needs of security at the cortex of their brain because they are afraid to admit they truly are not in control of every aspect of their lives? You could also argue a believer does so to satisfy other needs in order to explain away failures in both their own lives and society? But in a believer's case, the ceiling is unlimited and euphoria is capable of reaching infinity, while the non-believer has a low ceiling of finite achievments that will never be reached because it is impossible to know all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Let's look at it from this perspective. And this is something I'm sure physicists and/or atheists try to stay away from, because it does contradict many of their arguments. Anything that is been brought into existence must have some type of cause. Correct? Since the universe came into existence, there had to be a cause. Wouldn't the cause be God? Why would the cause be God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohansrage Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Would it be fair of me to say that using my knowledge in the science of psychology, a person who is not capable or does not want to believe in a higher power does so to pacify their innermost needs of security at the cortex of their brain because they are afraid to admit they truly are not in control of every aspect of their lives? You could also argue a believer does so to satisfy other needs in order to explain away failures in both their own lives and society? Couldn't you make an equally compelling case that a non-believer gives up control by accepting that the world is a random place where random stuff happens no matter what you do? But in a believer's case, the ceiling is unlimited and euphoria is capable of reaching infinity, while the non-believer has a low ceiling of finite achievments that will never be reached because it is impossible to know all? The ceiling is only unlimited if you are part of the correct group of believers who live their life in the best way as defined by that same group of believers. Otherwise, it's wailing and gnashing of teeth for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 You get a 3%.....God laughs.....but he still loves you because you are from Cheektowaga. That's good for a B in a college science class. I'll take it! Let's look at it from this perspective. And this is something I'm sure physicists and/or atheists try to stay away from, because it does contradict many of their arguments. Anything that is been brought into existence must have some type of cause. Correct? Since the universe came into existence, there had to be a cause. Wouldn't the cause be God? And what caused God? By this logic there is no God since everything has a cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 That's good for a B in a college science class. I'll take it! And what caused God? By this logic there is no God since everything has a cause. Or, it means everything is God. You, me, the deer I'm watching in my backyard, hell, even Kerry King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Why would the cause be God? Why would it not? There had to have been a cause. And there had to be a creator for that cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 The ceiling is only unlimited if you are part of the correct group of believers who live their life in the best way as defined by that same group of believers. Otherwise, it's wailing and gnashing of teeth for you It's not about religious dogma and organization.....it's a simple matter of a higher being. I understand being skeptical of any organization's rituals and decrees. If you want to flip things around and bring a hockey bent into this.....I am known for being "negative" and without hope when it comes to the Sabres most of the time. Some people use that as an isult of sorts and are upset with my viewpoints. At the same time, I get upset with the Sabres "believers". The "you never know what can happen" crowd. Now, all I am really doing is taking a scientific viewpoint with the Sabres. There are X amount of variables that go into winning a Cup, and while you can debate what the proportion of those are or which are valid, in my opinion the Sabres have lacked the numbers to make a Championship possible. Those in control of the decision making are looking at a faulty equation in my opinion. While I take that approach, the "believers" that get upset at my viewpoint are really taking a God-like view of the Sabres. You should have infinite hope......infinite possibilities. Well, I do not see Regier, Ruff, Miller, etc. as Gods.....but as cogs in that scientific equation that in my opinion leads to a road of failure 100% of the time. It is ironic that some of the biggest scientific proponants of "life", take a omnipotent being approach to an object....a hockey team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Why would it not? There had to have been a cause. And there had to be a creator for that cause. Based on what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I went to a Catholic University. My first Philosophy class was basically going through the various arguments for and against the existence of God. The students were probably about 80% devout Catholics. The professor was a well published atheist. It was, by far, the best academic experience I have ever had. He didn't militantly push his atheism, but his arguments always ended there. I, as a believer, was fully challenged, I came out with my own faith strengthened, but others walked away shaken. All in all, an absolutely fantastic discussion to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Based on what? OK, the only way out of this is time is not the linear progression that we, as humans, perceive it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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