korab rules Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 He's way too slow for that, and you can't teach speed. Don't say this to Laura Stamm or Robbie Glantz. Speed, even straight line speed, is indeed something that can be taught. It's why even the hated Cindy Crosby spend time in his offseason with Glantz working on his power skating and edge work. Edgework and turns has as much to do with speed as straight line work. There are very few situations in a game where straight line speed is the difference maker. Hockey is all about change of direction and maintaining momentum and speed through proper technique. I will take a player who is a phenomenal skater over a so so skater with better straight line speed every time. Adam isn't a pretty skater. Most big men aren't. Only time will tell how effective a skater Adam can become. All he has done to this point is play pretty damn well at every level he has been asked to. We'll see how he transitions to the NHL over the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 which is why cantancci is so exciting... he has speed and then more speed with a side of speed. Adam might become a 2nd line center like Krecji but his potential upside is not as awesome as a guy like armia who can be top 5 rw in the game potential. I really wanted to see "bolts" (that's how Catennaci's name translates) at the development camp and was disappointed that he wasn't out there on Sunday. I think he's got a lot of potential. Don't say this to Laura Stamm or Robbie Glantz. Speed, even straight line speed, is indeed something that can be taught. It's why even the hated Cindy Crosby spend time in his offseason with Glatz working on his power skating and edge work. Edgework and turns has as much to do with speed as straight line work. There are very few situations in a game where straight line speed is the difference maker. Hockey is all about change of direction and maintaining momentum and speed through proper technique. I will take a player who is a phenomenal skater over a so so skater with better straight line speed every time. Adam isn't a pretty skater. Most big men aren't. Only time will tell how effective a skater Adam can become. All he has done to this point is play pretty damn well at every level he has been asked to. We'll see how he transitions to the NHL over the coming years. You're right, of course; speed can be improved a bit. But I don't know if it can be improved enough for Adam. Hope I'm wrong; I like the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I really wanted to see "bolts" (that's how Catennaci's name translates) at the development camp and was disappointed that he wasn't out there on Sunday. I think he's got a lot of potential. You're right, of course; speed can be improved a bit. But I don't know if it can be improved enough for Adam. Hope I'm wrong; I like the kid. I actually don't think Adam is particularly slow. His straight ahead speed really isn't all that bad once he gets momentum. He's got a long and strong stride. It's more of the lateral stop and go type speed and crossovers and the hips that I don't think are there yet. I think his skating will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Then you are seeing something that most of the people who rate and project draft prospects didn't/aren't seeing. Luke Adam was projected to be a high 3rd line, low 2nd line prospect right from draft day. I think the projections for Adam have changed quite a bit since the day he was drafted. He was drafted in June 2008, but his big breakout year in Juniors was 2009-2010 (90 points in 56 games, +34). Then last year he had 62 points in 57 games on his way to AHL ROY (which is more impressive if you consider that he spent the entire year going up and down between the AHL and NHL). In his first 19 NHL games, he had 3 goals (4 if you include the epic Adam-Ennis not-goal) which was a decent pace for a 20 year old. If only ends up a 3rd line forward, that would be a disappointment at this point. He probably projects at a no.2 center now and it's not unrealistic to hope that he becomes a very good top 6 forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justendrummer Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think the projections for Adam have changed quite a bit since the day he was drafted. He was drafted in June 2008, but his big breakout year in Juniors was 2009-2010 (90 points in 56 games, +34). Then last year he had 62 points in 57 games on his way to AHL ROY (which is more impressive if you consider that he spent the entire year going up and down between the AHL and NHL). In his first 19 NHL games, he had 3 goals (4 if you include the epic Adam-Ennis not-goal) which was a decent pace for a 20 year old. If only ends up a 3rd line forward, that would be a disappointment at this point. He probably projects at a no.2 center now and it's not unrealistic to hope that he becomes a very good top 6 forward. i agree with this 100 percent. Like I said earlier I see him as a Ryan Getzlaf type player in the future. Once he improves his skating and works on his speed I feel he'll be the total package. He has a real good wrist with an excellent release. MY opinion in Buffalo's top prospects: 1. Adam 2. Kassian 3. Drew Schiestel is somebody you really have to look out for. When he gets his chance when D-men start going down, he'll be the first called up and he wont go back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 i agree with this 100 percent. Like I said earlier I see him as a Ryan Getzlaf type player in the future. Once he improves his skating and works on his speed I feel he'll be the total package. He has a real good wrist with an excellent release. MY opinion in Buffalo's top prospects: 1. Adam 2. Kassian 3. Drew Schiestel is somebody you really have to look out for. When he gets his chance when D-men start going down, he'll be the first called up and he wont go back I know you are saying he Adam COULD develop into something Getzlaf-like, but he has a loooong way to go ... getzlaf spent all of 17 games in the AHL and had 33 points ... he dominated from the get-go ... Adam did not. I just did nott see that kind of upside during his time with the Sabres last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I know you are saying he Adam COULD develop into something Getzlaf-like, but he has a loooong way to go ... getzlaf spent all of 17 games in the AHL and had 33 points ... he dominated from the get-go ... Adam did not. I just did nott see that kind of upside during his time with the Sabres last season. Adam has neither Getzlafs size, nor skill, nor edge. Few do. He does have enough of each, however, that a 60-point second line centre is not out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Edgework and turns has as much to do with speed as straight line work. There are very few situations in a game where straight line speed is the difference maker. Hockey is all about change of direction and maintaining momentum and speed through proper technique. I will take a player who is a phenomenal skater over a so so skater with better straight line speed every time. Tell that to the guy who took out my knee last night when I was beating him in a puck race. :censored: I know you are saying he Adam COULD develop into something Getzlaf-like, but he has a loooong way to go ... getzlaf spent all of 17 games in the AHL and had 33 points ... he dominated from the get-go ... Adam did not. I just did nott see that kind of upside during his time with the Sabres last season. It happens so often in the draft coverage and it's happening way too much around here. We really need to stop comparing every single prospect to the elite players of the league. Sure you want them to be the next superstar, but how likely is that? A player is elite for a reason, they're incredibly rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 If you use purely "upside", I think Kassian has to be the top prospect. Noone in the organization has the potential that Kassian has. Adam projects to a 3rd line center. I don't think any of the defensive prospects are projected to 1st pairing so at best a couple of them might project about equal to Kassian. Kassian has enough talent to project to a 2nd line forward if he develops as hoped. Heck, he might even creep onto some teams 1st lines if his development matches his talent and size. He is the most exciting prospect to come into this organization since Vanek. It is very important that his development is handled properly. If we are talking about potential line projections and upside, then i would have to say Armia trumps Kassian. Kass is definitely more of a complete package though. Tough to call between the two, but as it stands now I'll go with Kassian over Armia for the sole reason that Kassian brings an element of toughness we need at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 If we are talking about potential line projections and upside, then i would have to say Armia trumps Kassian. Kass is definitely more of a complete package though. Tough to call between the two, but as it stands now I'll go with Kassian over Armia for the sole reason that Kassian brings an element of toughness we need at this point in time. The Sabres prospects break down nicely as either "high upside" or "likely to succeed" types. In terms of potential/upside: 1. Armia 2. Kassian 3. McNabb Safest bets 1. Pysyk 2. Adam 3. Foligno [* Now watch me be wrong about how all these guys turn out.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 The Sabres prospects break down nicely as either "high upside" or "likely to succeed" types. In terms of potential/upside: 1. Armia 2. Kassian 3. McNabb Safest bets 1. Pysyk 2. Adam 3. Foligno [* Now watch me be wrong about how all these guys turn out.] an interesting way to think about it. On the high end. 1.Armia has the highest upside...and has potentially the biggest bust potential. 2. Kassian - agree.... 3. I would say Cattenacci - again a boom or bust type guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBuffalo Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I think Kassian is the top prospect strictly cause of his size and ability to play with other NHl players. I can't wait to see him in Rochester and someday in blue and gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBuffalo Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I have to say though that if MAG is still a prospect he is my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 i agree with this 100 percent. Like I said earlier I see him as a Ryan Getzlaf type player in the future. I hate to come off all dooshy, but you need to keep getzlaf's name out cher mouf. Luke Adam will be fortunate to become 1/4 the player getzlaf is. This reminds me of some conversations we have had here in the past. Jason Pominville = Luc Robitallie (not so much) Max Afinogenov = Pavel Bure (laughable) I think posters really need to keep things in perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 an interesting way to think about it. On the high end. 1.Armia has the highest upside...and has potentially the biggest bust potential. 2. Kassian - agree.... 3. I would say Cattenacci - again a boom or bust type guy. I hate to say it, but everytime I read about Cattenacci and talent that doesn't quite measure up to his pure speed, all I can think is Brian Holzinger. Granted, it's a higher regarded version of Zinger since he went in the 3rd round, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I hate to say it, but everytime I read about Cattenacci and talent that doesn't quite measure up to his pure speed, all I can think is Brian Holzinger. Granted, it's a higher regarded version of Zinger since he went in the 3rd round, but still. That's funny - Holzinger is exactly who I was thinking of as well. But I don't know what you mean about higher regarded - Holzinger was a Hobie Baker award winner! :bag: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I hate to say it, but everytime I read about Cattenacci and talent that doesn't quite measure up to his pure speed, all I can think is Brian Holzinger. Granted, it's a higher regarded version of Zinger since he went in the 3rd round, but still. Well....if you find a player that plays 10 seasons from the 3rd round, that ain't too bad either. Here was a neat piece from the HockeyWriters. http://thehockeywriters.com/danielcatenacci-prospectprofile/ Anyway.....the upside is high....but I think you can temper any enthusiasm with Nathan Gerbe's trajectory, it was touch and go there for a while with Gerbe.....these guys don't step right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Well....if you find a player that plays 10 seasons from the 3rd round, that ain't too bad either. Here was a neat piece from the HockeyWriters. http://thehockeywriters.com/danielcatenacci-prospectprofile/ Anyway.....the upside is high....but I think you can temper any enthusiasm with Nathan Gerbe's trajectory, it was touch and go there for a while with Gerbe.....these guys don't step right in. With Catenacci it seems that once again the sabres drafted a guy who some (or it seems many) consider to be to small to be worth a 1 or 2 round pick. Central Scouting seemed to like him just fine and I think if his work ethic is like Gerbe's than he should be playing for the Amercks in the next couple of years and playing for the sabres within the next 4. Also I keep hearing that Cantenacci does some crazy training regime that Stamkos also does... Bottom line if I had to pick the most interesting prospect to watch it might be Cantenacci just because of his position at center and his potential to be a 1/2 line center. Imagine if the future for buffalo was: Ennis - Catenacci - Kassian Foligno - Adam - Armia I am not saying this will happen because young players can tank easy and a majority never make it but it would make for an interesting sabres team if they lived up to even 80% of their potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I hate to say it, but everytime I read about Cattenacci and talent that doesn't quite measure up to his pure speed, all I can think is Brian Holzinger. Granted, it's a higher regarded version of Zinger since he went in the 3rd round, but still. The Brian Holzinger comparisons are going to come out every time the Sabres have a guy who is fast but may not be able to finish on his scoring chances. I thought about it too when I read up on him after we picked him. Still, any player with game-changing speed immediately has potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 The Brian Holzinger comparisons are going to come out every time the Sabres have a guy who is fast but may not be able to finish on his scoring chances. I thought about it too when I read up on him after we picked him. Still, any player with game-changing speed immediately has potential. When I saw Cattenacci at Camp he was definitely finishing. I think he scored on 90% of his shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 When I saw Cattenacci at Camp he was definitely finishing. I think he scored on 90% of his shots. You snuck into the dorms, didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 You snuck into the dorms, didn't you? He's a bit sloppy on the one timers but has a great wrister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 He's a bit sloppy on the one timers but has a great wrister. wow... just wow, :blush: :worthy: anyways, Cantenacci's wrist shot does look promising and his puckhandling is on par with his speed so its not like he seems to overskate the puck. Cantenacci could be a world class passer and create scoring chances that skilled sniper linemates could devour but thats in the future... and unless i am mistaken its the somewhat distant future for now (3-4yrs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZBills7 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 He's a bit sloppy on the one timers but has a great wrister. Well played! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'm all for thinking outside the box and here's a kid from Big Bear, CA I looked up, Itan Chavira. By many accounts, he's the Sidney Crosby of roller hockey ...had a few games in the ECHL before he was cut loose. Anyway he's a project (5-8, 165, 24 years old) but I wish the Sabres would put some $ into developing this special kid. He's got sick moves. At least as a designated shootout shooter. Highlight reel: Forum/feedback on Chavira: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=417225 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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