Miss_The_Amerks Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 That the discussion is happening is par for the course. There will always be people looking for the contrarian way and if it were more nuanced, a plausible case could be made. (Basically by somebody following along Carp's well thought out post.) What is truly crazy, is that after having consistently gone through arguably the worst backup goaltending in the league since Biron was traded; NOW, when the Sabres finally have a reasonable backup situation, people want to punt Miller. How about we see how it works out w/ both Ryan having a reasonable workload and other teams getting some film of NHL quality shots on Enroth before we decide that Miller's contract is holding this team down and that Enroth (and his lower salary) are the salvation. I never said switch the 2, and if I implied that, I'm sorry and mis-spoke. I would rather pick up a $3m goalie and let him start, splitting generously with Enroth, getting him ready for '12-'13. The topic has already been discussed, and the general consensus isn't that Miller plays so many games due to poor back-ups, but he prefers the work load. We have a good goalie, and good back up with outstanding potential. What if Enrothe doesn't get the starts? Miller keeps playing 65-70 games a season until he's old and cant do it anymore? We're going to lose Enroth, he wont wait until Miller's dried up to start, he'll go somewhere he has a shot. I just don't see why we would pour money into a goalie that's good, when we could spend less money building a goalie that has the potential to be even better for more years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I just don't see why we would pour money into a goalie that's good, when we could spend less money building a goalie that has the potential to be even better for more years to come. A good consistent goalie from year to year is very hard to find. The league has been around for close to a century...and there are probably less than 150 goalies that have played in 300 games. Compare that to skaters. Most teams don't build around a goaltender because they don't have "that" goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donteatyellowsnow Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I never said switch the 2, and if I implied that, I'm sorry and mis-spoke. I would rather pick up a $3m goalie and let him start, splitting generously with Enroth, getting him ready for '12-'13. The topic has already been discussed, and the general consensus isn't that Miller plays so many games due to poor back-ups, but he prefers the work load. We have a good goalie, and good back up with outstanding potential. What if Enrothe doesn't get the starts? Miller keeps playing 65-70 games a season until he's old and cant do it anymore? We're going to lose Enroth, he wont wait until Miller's dried up to start, he'll go somewhere he has a shot. I just don't see why we would pour money into a goalie that's good, when we could spend less money building a goalie that has the potential to be even better for more years to come. Because you can't talk sense into people who think Miller is the best hockey player in the world, and if they think that, there is no way they can ever comprehend that others are just as good or better than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Because you can't talk sense into people who think Miller is the best hockey player in the world, and if they think that, there is no way they can ever comprehend that others are just as good or better than him. i think you've eaten a little too much yellow snow there buddy. Or maybe you just can't recognize a strongly supported case when it's presented counter to your opinion. So far on this thread I've seen more pro's to keeping miller than losing him. in fact the only pro to dumping him that i can find while reading this, is the money he would free up, when we've already established that the little that we may actually overpay him, doesn't really matter, because we're not up against the cap wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Because you can't talk sense into people who think Miller is the best hockey player in the world, and if they think that, there is no way they can ever comprehend that others are just as good or better than him. I still think Miller is probably the Sabres best player. Wins, save percentages, etc aside...just look at the shot charts..... Game 6 is of the last series is a good example... the Flyers had about 30 high percentage shots. The Sabres had about 10 and it was still a winnable game. If he's traded....he better bring back Pat Lafontaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Compared to Buffalo - Miller $6.25, Enroth $866,667, Lalime $650,000 for a total of $7.77 mil. They spend $10.825 mil on defence ($40,842,024 total) Good stuff. Of course that defense dollar figure will go up pretty quickly once the Sabres can get Myers a new contract. Plus a few of the D are either RFA or UFA next season. RFA: Stafford, Gerbe, Mancari, Sekera, Butler, Weber, Gragnani & Enroth. UFA: Connolly, Grier, Niedermayer, McCormick, Ellis, Montador, plus Parrish, Lalime & Stuart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Given the defense that was in front of him this year Miller was once again a elite level goaltender imo. For those of you who may not know this,a goaltender is still only as good as the d in front of him and th Sabres d is at best average.Against teams with effective checking games well below average as you have seen. It is not about save percentage or GAA silly rabbits. You may have noticed he grabbed two games by himself against Philly without any semblence of a defense and almost got a third one. No goaltender can consistently stop shots from open players in the slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Given the defense that was in front of him this year Miller was once again a elite level goaltender imo. For those of you who may not know this,a goaltender is still only as good as the d in front of him and th Sabres d is at best average.Against teams with effective checking games well below average as you have seen. It is not about save percentage or GAA silly rabbits. You may have noticed he grabbed two games by himself against Philly without any semblence of a defense and almost got a third one. No goaltender can consistently stop shots from open players in the slot. If I were to make the case that Miller is overpaid and should be replaced with a less expensive goalie I would start my argument with the very statement you made here that I bolded. I know it wasn't your intent, but you just made the argument that the folks with anti-Miller sentiments are trying to make, ie. if a goalie is only as good as his D, why do we justify a top tier, top paid goalie?. Just sayin'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 If I were to make the case that Miller is overpaid and should be replaced with a less expensive goalie I would start my argument with the very statement you made here that I bolded. I know it wasn't your intent, but you just made the argument that the folks with anti-Miller sentiments are trying to make, ie. if a goalie is only as good as his D, why do we justify a top tier, top paid goalie?. Just sayin'..... Here's my hope...the D gets better..and I think they will. Defense-men take the longest to "get it." With Talinder and Lydman (two top 4 defensemen anywhere IMO) Miller was a Vezina winner. Without them.....he was still very good. These young guys will get better...and in time, I think better than Tallinder and Lydman. If anything....the games with Enroth the D had to play a collapsing game rather than an up-ice pinching game. Independent of Enroth's play, I think that helped their game too. They all work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 If I were to make the case that Miller is overpaid and should be replaced with a less expensive goalie I would start my argument with the very statement you made here that I bolded. I know it wasn't your intent, but you just made the argument that the folks with anti-Miller sentiments are trying to make, ie. if a goalie is only as good as his D, why do we justify a top tier, top paid goalie?. Just sayin'..... With all due repect weave. I did not make your case.I left out MOST in front of goalies in that statement . My mistake. Buffalo's d is average at best and they made the playoffs because of Miller. When i say elite. i am talking about a top five or six level NHL goalie. You know the names. Are you saying you can pry away a cheaper one? A elite goalie makes any d he plays behind better, he makes an above average d a contender. A goalie who plays behind a great d and has great numbers is not necessarily elite. When you are lucky enough to get one you keep him. Thats the difference. The book on Enroth as a back up is still open. Teams will adjust to his game and until they do you never know what you really have. I like his positional play. He moves well, meaning he is quick post to post,(has a good pick), is relatively closed when in transition, and he has good anticipation and a decent glove hand. He adjusted to the speed of the NHL game quickly. In summary he has potential.I will enjoy watching him develop this year.Lindy helped him more than once this year with the defensive schemes he employed when he played. You should be carefull who you try to put behind the Sabres very average defense next year Weave and without the aquistions of a real shut down pairing they will be very average or worse again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 With all due repect weave. I did not make your case.Buffalo's d is average at best and they made the playoffs because of Miller. When i say elite. i am talking about a top five or six level NHL goalie.You know the names. Are you saying you can pry away a cheaper one? A elite goalie makes any d he plays behind better, he makes an an above average d a contender. A goalie who plays behind a great d and has great numbers is not necessarily elite. When you have one you keep him. Thats the difference. The book on Enroth as a back up is still open. Teams will adjust to his game and until they do you never know what you really have. I like his positional play. He moves well, meaning he is quick post to post,(has a good pick) and he has good anticipation and a decent glove hand. In summary he has potential.I will enjoy watching him develope this year.Lindy helped him more than once this year with the defensive scheme he employed when he played. You should be carefull who you try to put behind the Sabres very average defense next year Weave. With all due respect waldo, it isn't my case that I was making. I was playing Devil's Advocate. And yes, whether you intended it or not, you did parrot the case that the anti-Millers were making with that bolded sentence. So there. :P :nana: Edit: LOL, you edited your post long after I replied, mistook my position, and THEN got props for it. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 The Sabres put themselves in ideal position to advance to the second round. They won twice in Philadelphia to a take a 3-2 series lead, with Game Six at home. They led by a pair of goals twice, had the Flyers down entering the final period and were just 20 minutes away from continuing a four-month run of excellence. Reading this from the Bflo News, I suddenly realized how strikingly similar the situation was to the 2006 Carolina finals. We were up in the series, up in the last game, but came down with alot of injuries and came up short in the end. Maybe choking is part of the Sabres character and that's got to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Here's my hope...the D gets better..and I think they will. Defense-men take the longest to "get it." With Talinder and Lydman (two top 4 defensemen anywhere IMO) Miller was a Vezina winner. Without them.....he was still very good. These young guys will get better...and in time, I think better than Tallinder and Lydman. If anything....the games with Enroth the D had to play a collapsing game rather than an up-ice pinching game. Independent of Enroth's play, I think that helped their game too. They all work together. I think they need to replace "Winning is a Belief" in that crossed swords altar at HSBC with those words. "These young guys will get better" seems more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Reading this from the Bflo News, I suddenly realized how strikingly similar the situation was to the 2006 Carolina finals. We were up in the series, up in the last game, but came down with alot of injuries and came up short in the end. Maybe choking is part of the Sabres character and that's got to be addressed. I don't think it was a choke at all. By game seven the ice was tilted. It took seven but they were finally overpowered by the Flyers depth. If the Flyers had lost, that I would have called a choke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 With all due respect waldo, it isn't my case that I was making. I was playing Devil's Advocate. And yes, whether you intended it or not, you did parrot the case that the anti-Millers were making with that bolded sentence. So there. :P :nana: Edit: LOL, you edited your post long after I replied, mistook my position, and THEN got props for it. :doh: I am going to learn to draft in word then post instead of editing here. Ok weave you win...you are right.. i concede, defer, give in, submit, :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: .. :D L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I am going to learn to draft in word then post instead of editing here. Ok weave you win...you are right.. i concede, defer, give in, submit, :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: .. :D L No win. No lose. It's all just barroom banter. Peace, yo. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I can guaranty you Philly wouldn't trade for either of those contracts because they wouldn't be able to afford the team they have in front of their goaltender. The Sabres can't afford to shore up the defense and add scoring while paying an average goaltender $6+ mil a year. Think Philly would trade Carter and O'Donnell for Miller now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Think Philly would trade Carter and O'Donnell for Miller now? Who the F**K is O'Donnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 its obvious Philly lost because of something other than having some of the sketchyess goaltending in the nhl... kinda like Washington... def wasnt goaltending... Detroit isnt down because howard has sucked a bit... TB is the only team with sketch goaltending left now and honestly Roloson was good once so idk. Rinne, Tomas, Luongo, Roloson and Howard are it.... so WHY THE HECK DONT WE TRADE RYAN MILLER FOR NOTHING!!!! WHAT A FREAKING WASTE OF CAP SPACE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I find the constant miller bashing on this board astounding, and no, before you take offense, I'm not referring only to you. Miller had TWO. not one, TWO shutouts against what i thought and still think is the most offensively potent team in this league. And as far as I'm concerned, 49 saves in a game 6 OT loss is more than pulling your weight. If you're claiming we didn't win game 7 because Miller was just "good", then i urge you to watch the game again. He was the ONLY player that showed up last night. As far as being good enough to win the cup, are you suggesting that Niemi is a better netminder than Miller? It's all about the team as a whole, you can't expect Miller to carry your team when the defense watches the game about as much as we as fans do. The D will get better over time, its just a matter of replacing dead weight and getting experience for the younger guys. Am i upset that we lost last night? Of course! but we have an extremely young team, and if you've had a strong enough constitution to be a Buffalo sports fan this long, you can wait a couple more years. I dont post near as much as I use to but I still read here every day. My opinion on Miller is he is a very good goalie at times and very average at others. I dont mind him being our goalie, however I have a hard time rooting for him due to no fault of anything he does, I have a hard time rooting for him becasue he is our highest paid player and I think we can spend the cap room in alot better places and get better production with those dollars consumed by his salary...Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 O'Donnell is there 6th d man who makes $1.3 mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 its obvious Philly lost because of something other than having some of the sketchyess goaltending in the nhl... kinda like Washington... def wasnt goaltending... Detroit isnt down because howard has sucked a bit... TB is the only team with sketch goaltending left now and honestly Roloson was good once so idk. Rinne, Tomas, Luongo, Roloson and Howard are it.... so WHY THE HECK DONT WE TRADE RYAN MILLER FOR NOTHING!!!! WHAT A FREAKING WASTE OF CAP SPACE!!! Rolie has the best save% in these playoffs, but he was playing against the Caps and Pens, who don't really play an Offensive type game, they are more trap and wait type teams, so his numbers were probably a bit high as a reasult of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 I dont post near as much as I use to but I still read here every day. My opinion on Miller is he is a very good goalie at times and very average at others. I dont mind him being our goalie, however I have a hard time rooting for him due to no fault of anything he does, I have a hard time rooting for him becasue he is our highest paid player and I think we can spend the cap room in alot better places and get better production with those dollars consumed by his salary...Just my 2 cents Don't forget Vanek. I'm actually thinking Darcy should be calling Philly today and shop Miller. Drop some salary and Philly has some young forwards I wouldn't mind seeing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Rolie has the best save% in these playoffs, but he was playing against the Caps and Pens, who don't really play an Offensive type game, they are more trap and wait type teams, so his numbers were probably a bit high as a reasult of that... i just find this ironic, seeing as how these two teams when healthy have three of the most offensively potent players in the game today... funny how style of play shifts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donteatyellowsnow Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Who the F**K is O'Donnell Rosie :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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