LGR4GM Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Trading Miller and using the savings to make the Sabres better is the bottom line. For the record, Miller is not the 4th best player in the NHL. He is not the 4th best goalie in the NHL. There are many players you did not list that would make the Sabres better. Did i say miller was the 4th best? I implied to replace a goaltender of millers caliber you would need to go that route though. Think of it in fantasy hockey terms. If you have great big name offensive players, some nights they will not do anything and no one will see or notice them, they will have 0 stats. If you have a goalie they will always register in every single game for good or bad. They will always have to make a save or be there to back up their team. It just doesnt make sense to trade the only good golie you have for anything other than a top 10 forward. Great example from last night: Did Joe Thorton or Marleu or even my guy Pavelski help the sharks much last night? Not really, they had some shots and some hits. Niemi on the other hand made save after save after save and almost won that game for his team. Thats why if you wanna trade a good goaltender you must trade for a star IMO. FYI ppl, your proposal only works if Enroth is great which from 10 games does not equal great. If you wanna get a starter (bryzgalov type guy) or someone for like 4mil than you are only saving 2mil and this conversation is more f&c* up than i thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Did i say miller was the 4th best? I implied to replace a goaltender of millers caliber you would need to go that route though. Think of it in fantasy hockey terms. If you have great big name offensive players, some nights they will not do anything and no one will see or notice them, they will have 0 stats. If you have a goalie they will always register in every single game for good or bad. They will always have to make a save or be there to back up their team. It just doesnt make sense to trade the only good golie you have for anything other than a top 10 forward. Great example from last night: Did Joe Thorton or Marleu or even my guy Pavelski help the sharks much last night? Not really, they had some shots and some hits. Niemi on the other hand made save after save after save and almost won that game for his team. Thats why if you wanna trade a good goaltender you must trade for a star IMO. FYI ppl, your proposal only works if Enroth is great which from 10 games does not equal great. If you wanna get a starter (bryzgalov type guy) or someone for like 4mil than you are only saving 2mil and this conversation is more f&c* up than i thought. No team has had enough to look at to game plan for Enroth like they can for Miller yet, so I agree. SHipping him off this season just doesn't make sense! The kid's sample size is so small. Let him mature as a backup to start off with, then see where we stand. If Enroth turns out to be the second coming of the Dominator, then by all means he (miller) is definitely expendable, but why get rid of him if you're not getting something better in return. And by better, I mean star-caliber just as KTN does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 The goal is the Stanley Cup. The Goalies left in the playoffs today are: #1 and #3 Regular Season (#2 was Eliminated by #3), The #1 Goalie in these playoffs, The most recent goalie to have his name etched on the cup, and the ONE exception: A Team so stacked to the gills with D-Men and Defensive Forwards (See the list of active Selke Winners) that they can get away with mediocre goaltending. We can't just dump miller. If you want to go cheaper, you'd still have to bring someone in who is at least good in net. Enroth is not ready, if he were we might have a different discussion. But less than two dozen games is not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsabre Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 He doesn't usually give up horrible goals....he can be terrific and dominant at times as evidenced by 2 shutouts. HE can also be very average and doesn't usually play his best in the biggest game. Bottom line....he's good enough to get the team to the playoffs but not good enough to get them over the hump. He was good enough to get the Sabres to game 7 vs. a better Flyers team...but not quite good enough to lockdown the series. That's it. I don't want to hear anymore that he cost Buffalo the game yesterday and I definitely don't want to hear that he's an "Elite" franchise goalie, he's not. He's good but not great. Miller is a top NHL goalie. One of the top 6 for sure, in the great catagory. Do you think a goalie can single handedly advance deep into the playoffs w/o a solid defense and decent back checking from the forwards? Come on, if we had an average goalie we would have never come close to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 The example that teams have been winning in the playoffs with average to good goaltending only goes so far, as most of those teams are incredibly stacked with elite players in the forward and defense ranks. Those are even more difficult to build and even then you could have a Philly type goalie collapse and then all that talent is wasted (Philly has some pretty elite centers/forwards btw). The far more likely cup winning model is to have a very reliable top 10 option in goal and then put the pieces around him to be able to outscore the other team. Remember it is essentially other teams skaters vs. your goalie and vice versa so the goaltender should be pretty good if you want to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 No team has had enough to look at to game plan for Enroth like they can for Miller yet, so I agree. SHipping him off this season just doesn't make sense! The kid's sample size is so small. Let him mature as a backup to start off with, then see where we stand. If Enroth turns out to be the second coming of the Dominator, then by all means he (miller) is definitely expendable, but why get rid of him if you're not getting something better in return. And by better, I mean star-caliber just as KTN does. My point exactly without my sarcasm. If Enroth is awesome we can totally have this conversation next year and I will be down with it, especially if millers numbers stay about the same. I dont think they will and I think this team will be so amazing next year that shock and awe will reign supreme. Besides we have a couple years before we need to sign our young guns to big deals so deep breath and Lets Go Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I put the analysis in the July 1st thread, but: Putting Vanek in Prospective: He is the 12th highest cap hit Forward in the League. Since he signed the offer sheet: He Ranks 9th out of the top 25 cap hitters in goals He Ranks 19th out of the top 25 cap hitters in points Seems to me you can't get a much better player at a $7M cap hit. Good point.. I wonder if the Sabres could put Vanek out there strait up how many other teams would pick up the remainder of his contract to get him? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Miller does not score enough. Get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Miller does not score enough. Get rid of him. totally agree he had like 2 assists all year.... what a waste! Mike Weber is the same way, both these guys are garbage. lol this fun. :clapping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Miller does not score enough. Get rid of him. If he get into some fights then you could justify his salary a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 I want you to give me teams. Not just one. I want teams, who have traded away the closest players they have to "stars" and used the money to fill with lesser players, who have gotten better because of it. So what if we overpay Miller by about .6 million? or Vanek by 1? We could've let Vanek walk to Edmonton, but then you would be up in arms over how Darcey let Briere, Drury, AND Vanek walk that one fateful summer. Are we pressed up against the Cap? no. Do we have players who make more than they should and contribute less than Vanek or Miller? yes. It's not an issue. We have room to grow in the cap, and other players who are actually expendable. Connolly's salary, Hecht's salary, Morrisonn... need i go on? Just because Vanek and Miller make more money does not make them more expendable. you need to drop the dead weight, not the guys who regularly make a difference. If you use the salary cleared up by the DEAD WEIGHT to sign a better supporting cast, Vanek's numbers will be better, and so will Millers. It's really incredible vanek has put up the numbers he has when you consider he's literally our only premiere forward. How easy do you think it is to defend a team that only has one truely prolific scorer? Philly was a force in the regular season because of their offensive depth, same with tampa and Vancouver. You put your top two D men on the sedin twins? that's fine and dandy, but here comes Kesler. You put your top two on Stamkos and St. Lois? here comes lecavalier. You got Richards and carter covered, F**K we forgot about Briere and Giroux. The point is we need MORE scoring, and the defense to mature. The same pattern i noted above is seen even with the 06-07 sabres. 3 solid scoring lines with Briere on one, Vanek on another, and Drury on another, is borderline impossible to stop. One star forward and one star goalie will not win you a Stanley Cup. We need to add skill, not take it away. No where did I say lesser players I said the right players. If your gonna twist my words to make your point you win..Why do I have to list teams that revamped theyre roster to from the top to make theyre team better..I can list one and end this conversation. Turgeon for Lafontaine....If you get the right player make the deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 No where did I say lesser players I said the right players. If your gonna twist my words to make your point you win..Why do I have to list teams that revamped theyre roster to from the top to make theyre team better..I can list one and end this conversation. Turgeon for Lafontaine....If you get the right player make the deal but you implied it, whether you like it or not, the media, and a majority of the fans agree, Miller is our best player everynight. Without him there is no division title last year, there is no game 7 this year, and that leaves you, the collective miller haters, the odd ones out. So i return to the original question, how do you trade miller, our best player, and use the his salary to sign a lesser goalie, which, don't fool yourself, you would need to do, and use the 2-3 million dollar savings, to sign a player, that would save this organization? Hecht makes about that... he's no miracle worker. There's people clamoring for a proven, top line center, which will take money and the allure of a team filled with skill in other departments, something that can be seen as a contender. Then there's finding the "right" player, aka getting lucky. We have a better chance that miller has a miraculous season next year, like he has before, than that we trade our cornerstone player, to get the next pat lafontaine. Sidenote: we got farther with hasek than we did with laFontaine. I love patty to death, but those are the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braedon Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 So i return to the original question, how do you trade miller, our best player, and use the his salary to sign a lesser goalie, which, don't fool yourself, you would need to do, and use the 2-3 million dollar savings, to sign a player, that would save this organization? Sidenote: we got farther with hasek than we did with laFontaine. I love patty to death, but those are the facts. Trade Miller, get a top line center. Then go get Hasek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Trade Miller, get a top line center. Then go get Hasek. exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'm glad you're not the GM. You don't actually know whether I am or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 You don't actually know whether I am or not. you don't know i'm not :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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