Bobby Ryan scores goal with Mikko Koivu's stick...

[SDS]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Video-Bobby-Ryan-scores-using-Mikko-Koivu-s-sti?urn=nhl-294944

[SwampD]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Video-Bobby-Ryan-scores-using-Mikko-Koivu-s-sti?urn=nhl-294944

That was pretty cool. I still think I should have gotten extra points for that in SabreSpaceBlue.

[X. Benedict]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Video-Bobby-Ryan-scores-using-Mikko-Koivu-s-sti?urn=nhl-294944

That is great. :lol:

I don't think I've ever seen that at any level.

 

Love this line:

 

And if you're wondering, yes Koivu is a left-handed shot, while Ryan is a right-handed one. We'd hate to see what kind of shot Ryan would have gotten off had Koivu's stick had a Kovalchukian-type curve on it.

[Kristian]

Very cool indeed, but technically - How is that not a penalty on Koivu for holding the stick?

 

Or did the official have his arm up, and I didn't see it?

[Taro T]

Very cool indeed, but technically - How is that not a penalty on Koivu for holding the stick?

 

Or did the official have his arm up, and I didn't see it?

The ref down low definitely didn't call it. The one up high didn't call it immediately and probably didn't call it at all as the yahoos calling the game didn't make any mention of a delayed penalty (plus, w/ the scrum going on for the puck I'd've expected the play to get blown dead if there was a delayed penalty).

 

The fact that neither ref deemed Koivu's action worthy of 2 is almost as amazing as Ryan's resourcefulness.

[ROC Sabres]

Very cool indeed, but technically - How is that not a penalty on Koivu for holding the stick?

 

Or did the official have his arm up, and I didn't see it?

No, the ref was in the corner when it happened had he just skated by like nothing happened. I love the smell of Karma in the morning. Very nice.

[PASabreFan]

Very cool indeed, but technically - How is that not a penalty on Koivu for holding the stick?

 

Or did the official have his arm up, and I didn't see it?

 

Weird and wild and wacky stuff.

 

How is it not a penalty on Ryan fro holding Koivu's stick?

 

Only half-kidding. Can you play with an opponent's stick?

[spndnchz]

Weird and wild and wacky stuff.

 

How is it not a penalty on Ryan fro holding Koivu's stick?

 

Only half-kidding. Can you play with an opponent's stick?

 

No. U can get one from a teammate or ur bench.

 

Both taking the stick and using the opponents stick would have been penalties if they actually saw it.

[PASabreFan]

No. U can get one from a teammate or ur bench.

 

Both taking the stick and using the opponents stick would have been penalties if they actually saw it.

 

Thanks.

 

Also, you can't slide a stick to a teammate like Koivu's teammate for some reason thought he was doing.

[PASabreFan]

So all of that went totally undetected by four officials?

 

That's bad enough, but what's worse is what probably happened -- the officials figured it out and said, "Give it to 'em."

 

What was the correct call, anyway? No goal, plus a penalty to Ryan, but no penalty to Koivu? The original holding the stick on Koivu was missed. Linesmen can stop play when a stick has been received illegally, but they can't report holding the stick.

 

(Read the rule book closely if you want to have some fun with this one. Ryan didn't illegally receive the stick (slid to him or thrown to him, instead of being handed to him) and he didn't technically hold it, did he?)

[shrader]

I was wondering why no one mentioned this around here yesterday. That's one of the stranger things I've ever seen in a game. I'd love to hear Koivu's thoughts leading up to his theft.

[wallybarthman]

So all of that went totally undetected by four officials?

 

That's bad enough, but what's worse is what probably happened -- the officials figured it out and said, "Give it to 'em."

 

What was the correct call, anyway? No goal, plus a penalty to Ryan, but no penalty to Koivu? The original holding the stick on Koivu was missed. Linesmen can stop play when a stick has been received illegally, but they can't report holding the stick.

 

(Read the rule book closely if you want to have some fun with this one. Ryan didn't illegally receive the stick (slid to him or thrown to him, instead of being handed to him) and he didn't technically hold it, did he?)

 

This was a weird play - I saw it live actually and it was almost surreal.

 

The correct call was actually as it was called - given at the original offense was Koivu wasn't called. The odd thing was that the other Wild player was trying to slide Koivu's stick toward him - and ended up giving it to Bobby Ryan which he used to score with.

[PASabreFan]

This was a weird play - I saw it live actually and it was almost surreal.

 

The correct call was actually as it was called - given at the original offense was Koivu wasn't called. The odd thing was that the other Wild player was trying to slide Koivu's stick toward him - and ended up giving it to Bobby Ryan which he used to score with.

 

I don't know. Every hockey fan knows what holding the stick is. Is that to say you can pick up an opponent's stick and use it to score?

 

I've said this before. The NHL needs to adopt the same approach golf does. There are the Rules of Golf, the letter of the law. And then there's the Decisions on the Rules of Golf, where the rule interpretations are explained.

 

You can't anticipate any scenario.

 

The NHL needs to clarify whether Ryan broke the rules or not.

[shrader]

I don't know. Every hockey fan knows what holding the stick is. Is that to say you can pick up an opponent's stick and use it to score?

 

I've said this before. The NHL needs to adopt the same approach golf does. There are the Rules of Golf, the letter of the law. And then there's the Decisions on the Rules of Golf, where the rule interpretations are explained.

 

You can't anticipate any scenario.

 

The NHL needs to clarify whether Ryan broke the rules or not.

 

I don't think that's really necessary. Maybe he did technically break the rule, but he clearly did not break the spirit of the rule. The whole purpose is so that a player doesn't prevent an opposing player from having a stick to use. It's there so that if I break my stick and then claim SDS's because he's clumsy and dropped his own stick, I am not allowed to randomly decide that the stick is now mine. Ryan wasn't preventing Koivu from anything (then again, I haven't seen how Koivu dropped his in the first place). The whole idea of deciding whether or not Ryan should have been penalized is weak one because it's completely based off of already ignoring something that was a blatant violation of the rules.

 

The golf thing is so much easier since that game is a bunch of single moments frozen in time. There is no fluidity there. You can go more in depth because there are far less possibilities.

[spndnchz]

I don't know. Every hockey fan knows what holding the stick is. Is that to say you can pick up an opponent's stick and use it to score?

 

I've said this before. The NHL needs to adopt the same approach golf does. There are the Rules of Golf, the letter of the law. And then there's the Decisions on the Rules of Golf, where the rule interpretations are explained.

 

You can't anticipate any scenario.

 

The NHL needs to clarify whether Ryan broke the rules or not.

 

Damian Cox on TSN this morning said he called Colin Campbell to ask about this. CC said both players should have been penalized, but weren't. Cox asked him "What if Koivu's stick was too big or illegal and Ryan scored with it? Does it count?"

[darksabre]

I don't know. Every hockey fan knows what holding the stick is. Is that to say you can pick up an opponent's stick and use it to score?

 

I've said this before. The NHL needs to adopt the same approach golf does. There are the Rules of Golf, the letter of the law. And then there's the Decisions on the Rules of Golf, where the rule interpretations are explained.

 

You can't anticipate any scenario.

 

The NHL needs to clarify whether Ryan broke the rules or not.

 

According to the guys on NHL Overtime on VS, using Koivu's stick is legal because you can use any stick on the ice. I don't know if that's the rule, but they seemed to think it was and I'm inclined to believe them.

[PASabreFan]

Damian Cox on TSN this morning said he called Colin Campbell to ask about this. CC said both players should have been penalized, but weren't. Cox asked him "What if Koivu's stick was too big or illegal and Ryan scored with it? Does it count?"

 

I don't see how both players could have been penalized.

 

My head hurts from this one.

 

But it's pretty damn cool to think about.

[PASabreFan]

I don't think that's really necessary. Maybe he did technically break the rule, but he clearly did not break the spirit of the rule. The whole purpose is so that a player doesn't prevent an opposing player from having a stick to use. It's there so that if I break my stick and then claim SDS's because he's clumsy and dropped his own stick, I am not allowed to randomly decide that the stick is now mine. Ryan wasn't preventing Koivu from anything (then again, I haven't seen how Koivu dropped his in the first place). The whole idea of deciding whether or not Ryan should have been penalized is weak one because it's completely based off of already ignoring something that was a blatant violation of the rules.

 

The golf thing is so much easier since that game is a bunch of single moments frozen in time. There is no fluidity there. You can go more in depth because there are far less possibilities.

 

I'm not following your logic. I'm sure it's my mid afternoon fuzz brain and not you.

 

You don't know if he broke the rule. That's why I'm arguing that the league should clarify it.

 

Is picking up an opponent's stick an example of "holding the stick."

 

d4rk, I'll glaze over the rule book again, but I've never seen any mention of being allowed to use any stick that's lying on the ice. Is it like a lost and found -- after so much time it's up for grabs?

[Taro T]

Damian Cox on TSN this morning said he called Colin Campbell to ask about this. CC said both players should have been penalized, but weren't. Cox asked him "What if Koivu's stick was too big or illegal and Ryan scored with it? Does it count?"

 

 

According to the guys on NHL Overtime on VS, using Koivu's stick is legal because you can use any stick on the ice. I don't know if that's the rule, but they seemed to think it was and I'm inclined to believe them.

 

 

I don't see how both players could have been penalized.

 

My head hurts from this one.

 

But it's pretty damn cool to think about.

Because Colie has the last word, I'll say Ryan was probably in the wrong. But my review of the rules leads me to believe the VS guys were more correct. (Although skaters can't use any stick on the ice - they can't use goalie sticks.)

 

The NHL rulebook isn't clear on Ryan's situation but it is on Koivu's. Koivu was in the wrong, for either interference or holding the stick (take your pick) and should have been penalized.

 

While Ryan was gripping Koivu's stick, it isn't clear that he committed 'holding the stick' because 'holding the stick' is a subrule of the holding rule; and Ryan clearly wasn't impeding Koivu. Of course, my cursory review of the current rulebook also didn't find where technically a player may only use 1 stick at a time.

 

If it was the USA Hockey rules they were using, then Ryan would have been guilty of a penalty.

[shrader]

Damian Cox on TSN this morning said he called Colin Campbell to ask about this. CC said both players should have been penalized, but weren't. Cox asked him "What if Koivu's stick was too big or illegal and Ryan scored with it? Does it count?"

 

Interesting. So if someone picks up and starts using Chara's stick, what happens? He's only allowed to use a stick that long because of how tall he is.

 

I'm not following your logic. I'm sure it's my mid afternoon fuzz brain and not you.

 

You don't know if he broke the rule. That's why I'm arguing that the league should clarify it.

 

Is picking up an opponent's stick an example of "holding the stick."

 

d4rk, I'll glaze over the rule book again, but I've never seen any mention of being allowed to use any stick that's lying on the ice. Is it like a lost and found -- after so much time it's up for grabs?

 

By a strict interpretation, yeah, he probably broke the rules. But he had no intention of doing so. Once Koivu stole his stick, that loose stick essentially belongs to no one anymore. It should be fair game for Ryan to claim.

 

I know we're just having fun with this one, but I'm sure you'll agree with one fact here. The true "criminal" here is Koivu.

[PASabreFan]

Interesting. So if someone picks up and starts using Chara's stick, what happens? He's only allowed to use a stick that long because of how tall he is.

 

 

 

By a strict interpretation, yeah, he probably broke the rules. But he had no intention of doing so. Once Koivu stole his stick, that loose stick essentially belongs to no one anymore. It should be fair game for Ryan to claim.

 

I know we're just having fun with this one, but I'm sure you'll agree with one fact here. The true "criminal" here is Koivu.

 

So... when does life begin?

[PASabreFan]

Because Colie has the last word, I'll say Ryan was probably in the wrong. But my review of the rules leads me to believe the VS guys were more correct. (Although skaters can't use any stick on the ice - they can't use goalie sticks.)

What part of the rule book makes you think you can use any stick that's lying on the ice?

 

While Ryan was gripping Koivu's stick, it isn't clear that he committed 'holding the stick' because 'holding the stick' is a subrule of the holding rule; and Ryan clearly wasn't impeding Koivu. Of course, my cursory review of the current rulebook also didn't find where technically a player may only use 1 stick at a time.

You can't carry two sticks and be involved in the play. For some reason, this is under Rule 10.5, Stick Measurement.

[shrader]

So... when does life begin?

 

When I say so

[Taro T]

What part of the rule book makes you think you can use any stick that's lying on the ice?

Missed the ' in the 3rd paragraph of 10.3. Re-reading it, yeah, I'm leaning towards it being a situation where he probably hypertechnically should have received a penalty (after Koivu and the guy that shot Koivu's stick towards the corner got their penalties).

 

BUT the 2nd paragraph states that a player can only get a replacement stick from the bench or a teammate, but doesn't specifically state that he will get a penalty for using a stick from another source. That paragraph states specifically that a player will receive a penalty for shooting, slapping, etc a stick to a teammate and states specifically that a player will receive a penalty for using a goalie stick.

 

Each of the other 2 paragraphs in 10.3 cover a single penalizable action. Since the 2nd paragraph describes 3 actions, but only punishes 2 of the actions (directly, the rule appears to imply that the 3rd action is penalizable but doesn't specifically state that it is), AND the 3rd paragraph specifically states that a player WON'T receive a penalty for using a stick obtained from a particular method of getting a stick (although someone else gets penalized :huh: ); a case could be made that the league merely frowns on skaters using a stick found lying on the ice but doesn't see it rising to the level of a penalizable offense. (Similar to a head-butt in the playoffs. :censored: )

You can't carry two sticks and be involved in the play. For some reason, this is under Rule 10.5, Stick Measurement.

Thanks for that reference. As mentioned earlier, I couldn't find that reference in my quick review.

[shrader]

Missed the ' in the 3rd paragraph of 10.3. Re-reading it, yeah, I'm leaning towards it being a situation where he probably hypertechnically should have received a penalty (after Koivu and the guy that shot Koivu's stick towards the corner got their penalties).

 

Of course, if Koivu had gotten a penalty, it never would have reached the point where Ryan picks up the stick.