When should we expect those posts damning Regier?

[PASabreFan]

Anyone ever had Tacos Al Pastor? Who knew?!

[Calvin]

Tom Golisano is so NOT interested in the team winning a Cup it's not even funny. He is running the thing like a businessman, holding the ship until a real fanatic buys them and takes the real risks necessary to win it all. He's doing a PERFECT job as an interim owner, the only problem is, nobody gets it that he's not interested long-term, or they simply can't afford what he's asking.

This is funny, really funny. Don't you think it's in a businessman's best interest to make a team that can win the Cup so that he makes even more money? Think about it, more revenues, merchandise, good vibes all around and season tix sold out for years to come?

 

Interim or not, business-minded or sports fanatic, it is in any owner's best interest to build a winner.

 

I don't doubt OSP wants to win it all, it's just that he's tried a 12-year plan with Darcy & LQ, and it hasn't worked.. and he's still sticking with it. That's what galls me.

[carpandean]

This is funny, really funny. Don't you think it's in a businessman's best interest to make a team that can win the Cup so that he makes even more money? Think about it, more revenues, merchandise, good vibes all around and season tix sold out for years to come?

 

Interim or not, business-minded or sports fanatic, it is in any owner's best interest to build a winner.

 

I don't doubt OSP wants to win it all, it's just that he's tried a 12-year plan with Darcy & LQ, and it hasn't worked.. and he's still sticking with it. That's what galls me.

Well, in theory, not necessarily. In sports, there are no guarantees. The Yankees don't win the World Series every year despite spending more. What spending more does (again, in theory) is increase the probabilities of winning individual games, making the playoffs, winning each round, and finally winning the Cup. A business man (well, a risk-neutral one with a well-diversified risk portfolio) makes decisions based on expected (average) payoff.

 

Consider a simplified example: winning the Cup adds $5 million in revenue and spending another $1 million to improve a particular player will increase the probability of winning the Cup by 10%. Then, the expected payoff of spending that extra money is (0.10)*$5M - $1M = -$0.5M, so he would choose not to spend the extra million, even though it means winning more.

 

Now, the real problem is far more complicated both in terms of payoffs of the different levels of winning (regular season games, each playoff round, the Cup), including seat revenue, future demand (season tickets, etc.), merchandise, advertising, etc., and in estimating the change in probabilities associated with spending more money. If the owner has a better GM (one he has more faith in his abilities), then that owner will be willing to set a higher budget, as he would expect the increase in probability to go up more with each $ spent than with a lesser GM. However, the changes will also depend on the composition of competing teams and the moves that they make. Finally, since contracts are not all one-year long (as TG would like), money is committed for more than one season and, therefore, affects the probabilities of multiple years, including potentially preventing the GM from taking advantage of a more cost-efficient improvement later on.

 

All that said, thinking as a business man and wanting to win the Cup are not mutually exclusive. With a more business-minded owner, though, you will expect the team to be selective about the years that they spend more. In years where they are in more of a rebuilding phase, spending will generally be lower, but in years where they have a legitimate shot (e.g., 2006-07), then they will spend rather liberally. A true eccentric sport-fanatic type owner would be willing to spend every year even it means losing money in those years, because he is (within reason) solely focused on winning as much as possible every year; 35 wins is still better than 32 wins in a rebuilding year.

[Calvin]

Well, in theory, not necessarily. In sports, there are no guarantees. The Yankees don't win the World Series every year despite spending more. What spending more does (again, in theory) is increase the probabilities of winning individual games, making the playoffs, winning each round, and finally winning the Cup. A business man (well, a risk-neutral one with a well-diversified risk portfolio) makes decisions based on expected (average) payoff.

 

Consider a simplified example: winning the Cup adds $5 million in revenue and spending another $1 million to improve a particular player will increase the probability of winning the Cup by 10%. Then, the expected payoff of spending that extra money is (0.10)*$5M - $1M = -$0.5M, so he would choose not to spend the extra million, even though it means winning more.

 

Now, the real problem is far more complicated both in terms of payoffs of the different levels of winning (regular season games, each playoff round, the Cup), including seat revenue, future demand (season tickets, etc.), merchandise, advertising, etc., and in estimating the change in probabilities associated with spending more money. If the owner has a better GM (one he has more faith in his abilities), then that owner will be willing to set a higher budget, as he would expect the increase in probability to go up more with each $ spent than with a lesser GM. However, the changes will also depend on the composition of competing teams and the moves that they make. Finally, since contracts are not all one-year long (as TG would like), money is committed for more than one season and, therefore, affects the probabilities of multiple years, including potentially preventing the GM from taking advantage of a more cost-efficient improvement later on.

 

All that said, thinking as a business man and wanting to win the Cup are not mutually exclusive. With a more business-minded owner, though, you will expect the team to be selective about the years that they spend more. In years where they are in more of a rebuilding phase, spending will generally be lower, but in years where they have a legitimate shot (e.g., 2006-07), then they will spend rather liberally. A true eccentric sport-fanatic type owner would be willing to spend every year even it means losing money in those years, because he is (within reason) solely focused on winning as much as possible every year; 35 wins is still better than 32 wins in a rebuilding year.

Fair enough. Well explained Carp, thanks.

[Eleven]

Fair enough. Well explained Carp, thanks.

 

Just wait until he puts it into a chart.

[PASabreFan]

Fair enough. Well explained Carp, thanks.

 

Message board translation: I didn't read it.

[shrader]

Message board translation: I didn't read it.

 

Fair enough. Well explained PA. Thanks.

[PASabreFan]

Fair enough. Well explained PA. Thanks.

 

This.

[Calvin]

Just wait until he puts it into a chart.

I quite appreciate Carp's charts! I think it takes an engineer to appreciate one of those more than a lawyer :rolleyes:

 

Message board translation: I didn't read it.

Why didn't you read it PA? Because Ruff wasn't being damned in it? :angry:

[Eleven]

I quite appreciate Carp's charts! I think it takes an engineer to appreciate one of those more than a lawyer :rolleyes:

 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I am NOT disparaging the charts. Quite the opposite; I love the charts.

[PASabreFan]

Why didn't you read it PA? Because Ruff wasn't being damned in it? :angry:

Go suck on his mustache.

[TheChimp]

Link? I don't think he's said any of this. The only thing that anyone has said about selling the team that I'm aware of is that the team is not for sale, but if someone called with an amazing offer, a sale would be possible. And as far as that goes -- no kidding. I think the same would be true for most owners.

It was in the second year out of lockout. He was in an informal, but televised, interview, with the guy (now I've been away from Buffalo for 13 years so I forget all the media peoples' names) who I THINK does the Buffalo Bills play-by-play, at least the voice was familiar....anyway, they were sitting in a cozy room on opposite sides of the table....one point, the guy comes right out and asks him, "Tom, are the Sabres for sale?", and Tom answered, "...Not really." Then he went on to talk about the lack of people who wanted to keep the team in Buffalo (I think Balsillie was making news at that point), and he very much did go on to say that another ownership group, with different GM and coaching, might very well do better than his guys were doing, but unless that new owner made a solemn vow to keep the team in Buffalo, no way were they going to be sold to that guy.

 

I don't care if you thionk everything I said had no basis in fact. I watched the interview with my own eyes, heard every word, picked up on Tommy's meaning, and even bitched about it in the forum I belonged to at the time.

[BleedBlueandGold85]

TheMute is right I also saw this special quite a few years back and the guy he was thinking about doing the interview was John Murphy from channel 7 news and the Bills Play by Play, Tom Golisano did say everything he said up there, and he did seem like he wasnt willing to win, but he said as long as hes owner at least the sabres would stay in buffalo.

[nfreeman]

He's already admitted that the team is available to anyone else who is willing to match his selling cost AND wants to keep the team in Buffalo. Been saying it from day one. ######, he even conceded that his management team might not be the best possible one out there and that he wouldn't really know the difference and again mentioned that if the right buyer was out there, they could have their go at it.

 

Tom Golisano is so NOT interested in the team winning a Cup it's not even funny. He is running the thing like a businessman, holding the ship until a real fanatic buys them and takes the real risks necessary to win it all. He's doing a PERFECT job as an interim owner, the only problem is, nobody gets it that he's not interested long-term, or they simply can't afford what he's asking.

 

IMO, a REAL hero would figure out a way to expediate the sale to a more determined bunch of fellas and recoup his costs and forget the profit.

It was in the second year out of lockout. He was in an informal, but televised, interview, with the guy (now I've been away from Buffalo for 13 years so I forget all the media peoples' names) who I THINK does the Buffalo Bills play-by-play, at least the voice was familiar....anyway, they were sitting in a cozy room on opposite sides of the table....one point, the guy comes right out and asks him, "Tom, are the Sabres for sale?", and Tom answered, "...Not really." Then he went on to talk about the lack of people who wanted to keep the team in Buffalo (I think Balsillie was making news at that point), and he very much did go on to say that another ownership group, with different GM and coaching, might very well do better than his guys were doing, but unless that new owner made a solemn vow to keep the team in Buffalo, no way were they going to be sold to that guy.

 

I don't care if you thionk everything I said had no basis in fact. I watched the interview with my own eyes, heard every word, picked up on Tommy's meaning, and even bitched about it in the forum I belonged to at the time.

I saw the interview you are referring to. If you are saying that he said that he would sell to anyone that would offer him what he paid for the team -- I don't agree at all. If you are saying that he said that he would sell at the right price, as long as the buyer kept the team in Buffalo -- I agree with this (and I posted it above). But so what? 95% of all pro sports franchises are for sale at the right price.

 

More to the point, he said, as you posted, that the team wasn't really for sale -- ie that he would listen to anyone who called and offered to buy, but he hasn't put the team up for sale and is not actively marketing it. He also said the team had to stay in Buffalo. To me, both of those are pretty good answers.

 

Finally, I don't think there are many billionaire fanatics out there looking to buy hockey teams and lose millions of dollars in the quest to win a cup. For example, the Oilers' owner, who just bought the team a couple of years ago, is pushing hard for a new publicly-built arena so he can make enough money from the team.

[deluca67]

I saw the interview you are referring to. If you are saying that he said that he would sell to anyone that would offer him what he paid for the team -- I don't agree at all. If you are saying that he said that he would sell at the right price, as long as the buyer kept the team in Buffalo -- I agree with this (and I posted it above). But so what? 95% of all pro sports franchises are for sale at the right price.

 

More to the point, he said, as you posted, that the team wasn't really for sale -- ie that he would listen to anyone who called and offered to buy, but he hasn't put the team up for sale and is not actively marketing it. He also said the team had to stay in Buffalo. To me, both of those are pretty good answers.

 

Finally, I don't think there are many billionaire fanatics out there looking to buy hockey teams and lose millions of dollars in the quest to win a cup. For example, the Oilers' owner, who just bought the team a couple of years ago, is pushing hard for a new publicly-built arena so he can make enough money from the team.

Here in Buffalo we sports fans really do get the worst of both worlds. One owner we all wished were more involved and another owner we wish had no say what so ever.

 

I guess we have to settle for Golisano just being a checkbook with legs. He does that job well. The checks do clear.

[deluca67]

The summer and off-season are at a end. Anyone? Or are you all still holding on to the dream of a major move being made between now and the start of the season?

[Kristian]

The summer and off-season are at a end. Anyone? Or are you all still holding on to the dream of a major move being made between now and the start of the season?

 

Don't worry, the core kept on developing over the summer. There's no stopping the core.

[Calvin]

The summer and off-season are at a end. Anyone? Or are you all still holding on to the dream of a major move being made between now and the start of the season?

Yeah you're right DeLuca. The team is ######. Sell your seasons everyone. Cancel any subscriptions. You can now free up 82 evenings in the year. Don't bother watching any games. The Sabres suck for as long as DeLuca says they do. Him and PA of course, the fans' equivalent of Darcy & LQ - they can choose between themselves who is who.

 

By the way, for all your bitching and moaning, TG & LQ are not selling the team, firing Darcy or letting Ruff go. Deal with it, accept the status quo and we'll see you Oct 8th against the Sens.

[Bullwinkle]

Yeah you're right DeLuca. The team is ######. Sell your seasons everyone. Cancel any subscriptions. You can now free up 82 evenings in the year. Don't bother watching any games. The Sabres suck for as long as DeLuca says they do. Him and PA of course, the fans' equivalent of Darcy & LQ - they can choose between themselves who is who.

 

By the way, for all your bitching and moaning, TG & LQ are not selling the team, firing Darcy or letting Ruff go. Deal with it, accept the status quo and we'll see you Oct 8th against the Sens.

 

Calvin, take a look at reality. The Sabres have gotten worse over the summer, not better. Leopold + Morrisonn < Tallinder + Lydman. Niedermayer adds nothing of significance. Plus they lose a promising forward in Kennedy...lose him in an embarrassing manner, I might add.

 

Regier is counting on the kids to come up and play like 6 year pros. He's hoping Myers won't have a sophomore slump - in fact he's hoping he'll improve. He's hoping Miller will have another Vezina year. He's hoping Stafford will become a top 6 forward. He's hoping the PP will improve, despite the fact he's done nothing to improve it.

 

Hope, hope, hope. And that's what we have to look forward to this year.

[deluca67]

Yeah you're right DeLuca. The team is ######. Sell your seasons everyone. Cancel any subscriptions. You can now free up 82 evenings in the year. Don't bother watching any games. The Sabres suck for as long as DeLuca says they do. Him and PA of course, the fans' equivalent of Darcy & LQ - they can choose between themselves who is who.

 

By the way, for all your bitching and moaning, TG & LQ are not selling the team, firing Darcy or letting Ruff go. Deal with it, accept the status quo and we'll see you Oct 8th against the Sens.

You are happy with another off-season of no improvements? You prefer this franchise be built on the back of a frail goaltender with no support around him? You are happy they did not address any of their glaring needs? I just don't get what many of you are thinking? Miller is not going to be around forever. Even with Miller this has been far from a perennial playoff team. At some point you need to start building a team around him. There was a lot of talent available this off-season to start building. Instead they did nothing. I can't see how anyone can be happy with that.

[Kristian]

Yeah you're right DeLuca. The team is ######. Sell your seasons everyone. Cancel any subscriptions. You can now free up 82 evenings in the year. Don't bother watching any games. The Sabres suck for as long as DeLuca says they do. Him and PA of course, the fans' equivalent of Darcy & LQ - they can choose between themselves who is who.

 

By the way, for all your bitching and moaning, TG & LQ are not selling the team, firing Darcy or letting Ruff go. Deal with it, accept the status quo and we'll see you Oct 8th against the Sens.

 

No, the Sabres suck for as long as Darcy keeps saying he's looking to improve them, and doesn't.

[deluca67]

No, the Sabres suck for as long as Darcy keeps saying he's looking to improve them, and doesn't.

It's easier to blame myself or PA than it is to actually blame the person responsible.

 

I can't believe so many are will to let Regier off the hook. He finally come out with some passion at the end of the season only to back peddle his way through the off-season. How is that acceptable leadership? At some point someone needs to step up as the leader of the franchise. On and off the ice.

[PASabreFan]

Calvin, take a look at reality. The Sabres have gotten worse over the summer, not better. Leopold + Morrisonn < Tallinder + Lydman. Niedermayer adds nothing of significance. Plus they lose a promising forward in Kennedy...lose him in an embarrassing manner, I might add.

 

Regier is counting on the kids to come up and play like 6 year pros. He's hoping Myers won't have a sophomore slump - in fact he's hoping he'll improve. He's hoping Miller will have another Vezina year. He's hoping Stafford will become a top 6 forward. He's hoping the PP will improve, despite the fact he's done nothing to improve it.

 

Hope, hope, hope. And that's what we have to look forward to this year.

 

That just about covers it. I'd nitpick the phrasing of "lose a promising forward in Kennedy." I'd use the active voice: the Sabres discarded a promising forward...

[PASabreFan]

It's easier to blame myself or PA than it is to actually blame the person responsible.

 

I can't believe so many are will to let Regier off the hook. He finally come out with some passion at the end of the season only to back peddle his way through the off-season. How is that acceptable leadership? At some point someone needs to step up as the leader of the franchise. On and off the ice.

 

The Regier quote that sticks in my mind from the presser is when he got a little choked up and said the one thing that will drive you out of this business is the emotional impact of losing. Well, damn, how many years can the guy take it!? In a non-bizarro world, five, eight, 10 or 13 straight years of feeling that way in one city would cause someone else to put you out of your misery. I don't think Darcy has any fear of losing his job. This is one of the few places in professional sports, in the history of professional sports, where a guy -- two guys, him and Ruff, actually -- are given the keys to the house and told to leave when they're ready. Just put the key back under the placemat, it's a safe neighborhood. It's really not a healthy situation, not when you have two guys who don't have enough self-respect, or respect for the Sabres community, to leave home and test their wings. C-o-m-f-o-r-t-a-b-l-e.

[bunomatic]

I've been on board with the posters that are vocal about this teams lack of improvement and glaring need for a change in leadership and I support what both Deluca, P.A. and bullwinkle are saying. Darcy has done nothing to improve to the point of truly competing and instead has tried to tweek his way through another offseason. Instead of adding talent to fix the problems he's made moves that are reactionary rather than proactive. Replace the departing players with players that may be of equal value but could very well be a step back depending on how things go. And hope that last years season of a perfect storm in favor of the sabres happens again. Putting this teams fortunes in the hope basket and for lack of a better word hoping everyone improves on last season is wishful thinking and I'd have to say a cowardly way to operate a franchise. Its about time the leaders of this team were agressive, not the league wallflowers they've become known as.