When should we expect those posts damning Regier?

[nfreeman]

Or dodging a bullet.

Again I must disagree. I would gladly have Soupy on the Sabres at $5MM per year.

 

The bolded statement is not an empirical fact. They have less money to spend only because OSP says so. If this multibillionaire wanted to make a financial commitment to try and get Kovy, he could. Darcy's latest shell game is this, as stated in the recent WGR interview: big market teams before the lockout were spending upwards of 90 million. Now the cap is about 30 million less. But they still have the 30 million to spend if they want to circumvent the cap. That's a pretty wild exaggeration.

 

Really, what hit would ownership have taken by signing Kovalchuk to that deal? A team that has made a modest profit in recent years might only break even -- or you dump salary somewhere else, and there's no effect on the bottom line. Didn't OSP say that was all he was shooting for here, anyway (breaking even)? And that's not factoring in how much signing Kovy could have done for revenues. People can easily argue Kovy is a bad move, hockey-wise, and win the argument. Fine. Then find another Kovy. Does Darcy have the balls to go to ownership and even ask?

 

I don't know that ownership has stepped back at all. LQ represents OSP, right, and is part owner? Does it seem like LQ has been less involved? Who was speaking for the organization around the deadline, saying a decision had been made not to make a move and risk five cracks at a Cup in Miller's prime? OSP has personally stepped back, for sure, and made himself look very bad in the process.

 

I've said it before. Building up the season ticket base, selling all those slugs, earning all that great press, turning a bankrupt franchise from red to black was Golisano and Quinn's Cup. It's clear since then they've had no desire to do anything more. It's what turns on guys like that. LQ has acknowledged offers were being considered for the team, and now it's just a matter of time until they ride off into the sunset. ######, OSP already has. LQ will follow, looking for his next community power grab under the guise of "revitalization."

They have less money to spend because their team generates less revenue. Again, you can choose to ignore the assumption that the team has to be self-sustaining, but I think most owners don't.

 

$30MM is an exaggeration in the sense that no team, regardless of cap shenanigans, can spend $30MM more than any other team. However, cap shenanigans can buy a team $7-$8MM extra per year (less if the Kovy contract voiding is upheld), and the salary floor is $16MM below the cap. So there are plenty of teams that can work the system to spend $20MM or so more than the poorer teams (which will be a spread of 40% or more over what the poorer teams spend).

 

As for what would've happened to the Sabres if they worked the system to have cash payroll exceed the cap by $4-5MM or so -- since they were $2MM or so below the cap last year, I expect that it would've swung them from a $1MM or so profit to a $5MM loss, which would not have been acceptable to TG.

 

LQ may be full of himself and responsible for some major personnel blunders, but I do believe he wants badly to win the Cup.

 

How many guys like that have you turned on?

 

Same thing happened with Briere and Drury. Then they responded by aggressively locking up Roy, Hecht, Pommer to long term deals before their current deals had expired. They got it backwards.

Another good one.

[PASabreFan]

Again I must disagree. I would gladly have Soupy on the Sabres at $5MM per year.

 

 

They have less money to spend because their team generates less revenue. Again, you can choose to ignore the assumption that the team has to be self-sustaining, but I think most owners don't.

 

$30MM is an exaggeration in the sense that no team, regardless of cap shenanigans, can spend $30MM more than any other team. However, cap shenanigans can buy a team $7-$8MM extra per year (less if the Kovy contract voiding is upheld), and the salary floor is $16MM below the cap. So there are plenty of teams that can work the system to spend $20MM or so more than the poorer teams (which will be a spread of 40% or more over what the poorer teams spend).

 

As for what would've happened to the Sabres if they worked the system to have cash payroll exceed the cap by $4-5MM or so -- since they were $2MM or so below the cap last year, I expect that it would've swung them from a $1MM or so profit to a $5MM loss, which would not have been acceptable to TG.

 

LQ may be full of himself and responsible for some major personnel blunders, but I do believe he wants badly to win the Cup.

How many guys like that have you turned on?

Why, I never!

 

Now, what if the extra couple million were spent smartly and ended up turning the Sabres from division-winner wannabes to Cup finalists or even, dare I say it...? You're going to have to account for all those millions from home playoff games, right?

 

Let's keep things in perspective here. A $5 million annual loss -- remember that the value of the franchise has gone up significantly since OSP bought it, so he'd still be way in the black -- is approximately .0025 percent of Goli's net worth, let's plug in 2 billion. The annual worker in the US makes 40k a year. To the average folk, we're talking about a 100 buck loss here.

 

So, average workers out there, would you risk 100 dollars if you thought it could seriously help bring the Sabres a Cup?

[carpandean]

So, average workers out there, would you risk 100 dollars if you thought it could seriously help bring the Sabres a Cup?

To make it a fair question, you have to go out and find an average worker from Rochester who likes it in upstate NY, but doesn't really care much about the Sabres. Ask him if he'd be willing to risk $100 to help bring the Sabres a Cup.

[nfreeman]

Why, I never!

 

Now, what if the extra couple million were spent smartly and ended up turning the Sabres from division-winner wannabes to Cup finalists or even, dare I say it...? You're going to have to account for all those millions from home playoff games, right?

 

Let's keep things in perspective here. A $5 million annual loss -- remember that the value of the franchise has gone up significantly since OSP bought it, so he'd still be way in the black -- is approximately .0025 percent of Goli's net worth, let's plug in 2 billion. The annual worker in the US makes 40k a year. To the average folk, we're talking about a 100 buck loss here.

 

So, average workers out there, would you risk 100 dollars if you thought it could seriously help bring the Sabres a Cup?

There are many, I'm sure, who will agree with you that OSP should subsidize operating losses because he is rolling in it. However, now we've returned to the assumption that the team has to be self-sustaining, which I think is a fact of life (and for most franchises, not just the Sabres).

 

As for risking the money because they'll get it back with a deep playoff run -- while I'd be happy if TG wanted to play that game, it's much easier for me to do it with his money than with mine.

 

IMHO, the real answer, and it's far from unachievable, is for the Sabres to do pretty much what they're doing now in terms of total expenditures, but just to make a few decisions come out better -- ie to have Vanek score 45-42-87 and Pommer score 30-50-80 and TC not get hurt right before the playoffs and Roy and Pommer not turn into SGMs in the playoffs -- and if that doesn't happen, to cut losses and make strong moves with that money elsewhere.

[SwampD]

There are many, I'm sure, who will agree with you that OSP should subsidize operating losses because he is rolling in it. However, now we've returned to the assumption that the team has to be self-sustaining, which I think is a fact of life (and for most franchises, not just the Sabres).

 

As for risking the money because they'll get it back with a deep playoff run -- while I'd be happy if TG wanted to play that game, it's much easier for me to do it with his money than with mine.

IMHO, the real answer, and it's far from unachievable, is for the Sabres to do pretty much what they're doing now in terms of total expenditures, but just to make a few decisions come out better -- ie to have Vanek score 45-42-87 and Pommer score 30-50-80 and TC not get hurt right before the playoffs and Roy and Pommer not turn into SGMs in the playoffs -- and if that doesn't happen, to cut losses and make strong moves with that money elsewhere.

Isn't that what we've hoped for the last three years? It's time for a new plan.

[nfreeman]

Isn't that what we've hoped for the last three years? It's time for a new plan.

I agree that change is needed. My point was simply that the "new plan" is realistically going to be limited, as the current plan is, by economics in the sense that no matter who the players are, the team has to be financially self-supporting.

[Billfold100]

Why, I never!

 

Now, what if the extra couple million were spent smartly and ended up turning the Sabres from division-winner wannabes to Cup finalists or even, dare I say it...? You're going to have to account for all those millions from home playoff games, right?

Let's keep things in perspective here. A $5 million annual loss -- remember that the value of the franchise has gone up significantly since OSP bought it, so he'd still be way in the black -- is approximately .0025 percent of Goli's net worth, let's plug in 2 billion. The annual worker in the US makes 40k a year. To the average folk, we're talking about a 100 buck loss here.

 

So, average workers out there, would you risk 100 dollars if you thought it could seriously help bring the Sabres a Cup?

 

The NHL gets 50% of playoff revenue. Regardless, a business that loses money has less value. The person who buys the team from Golisano is going to be paying market price (which TG did not b/c the team was bankrupt) so paying $200m(?) for a team that loses millions annually probably doesn't make sense to most people with $200m to spend on a sports team.

[PASabreFan]

The NHL gets 50% of playoff revenue. Regardless, a business that loses money has less value. The person who buys the team from Golisano is going to be paying market price (which TG did not b/c the team was bankrupt) so paying $200m(?) for a team that loses millions annually probably doesn't make sense to most people with $200m to spend on a sports team.

 

Do rich people sit down and think objectively about buying sports teams? A cold analysis of the numbers? Let's see, I'm worth a couple billion... hot damn, if I buy an NHL franchise, and run a very tight ship, I could make a few million a year! But, be careful, bud... I could also lose a couple million.

 

It just makes no sense, sorry. I think rich people buy sports teams for the thrill of it, the prestige, the ego, the desire to win. For lots of reasons beyond the annual bottom line.

 

I think the key here is the appreciation of the franchise. Then again, I know I have no clue what the ###### I am talking about.

[SwampD]

Do rich people sit down and think objectively about buying sports teams? A cold analysis of the numbers? Let's see, I'm worth a couple billion... hot damn, if I buy an NHL franchise, and run a very tight ship, I could make a few million a year! But, be careful, bud... I could also lose a couple million.

 

It just makes no sense, sorry. I think rich people buy sports teams for the thrill of it, the prestige, the ego, the desire to win. For lots of reasons beyond the annual bottom line.

 

I think the key here is the appreciation of the franchise. Then again, I know I have no clue what the ###### I am talking about.

They also buy them if they are running for gub'ner and want to endear themselves to a fanbase filled with registered voters.

[Eleven]

They also buy them if they are running for gub'ner and want to endear themselves to a fanbase filled with registered voters.

 

I don't think that was by design.

 

The key, though, as PA said, is appreciation of the franchise, and not income/loss in each season. The franchise is appreciating in value, especially compared to Golisano's low basis.

[Billfold100]

Do rich people sit down and think objectively about buying sports teams? A cold analysis of the numbers? Let's see, I'm worth a couple billion... hot damn, if I buy an NHL franchise, and run a very tight ship, I could make a few million a year! But, be careful, bud... I could also lose a couple million.

 

It just makes no sense, sorry. I think rich people buy sports teams for the thrill of it, the prestige, the ego, the desire to win. For lots of reasons beyond the annual bottom line.

I think the key here is the appreciation of the franchise. Then again, I know I have no clue what the ###### I am talking about.

Then why is TG roundly criticized on this board for only caring about money and not enough about winning??? And why was he the only one left to buy this team after Hammister bailed if owning a sports team is so appealing? Who cares its just money, right? Money is everything to people who have the most of it.

[Eleven]

Then why is TG roundly criticized on this board for only caring about money and not enough about winning??? And why was he the only one left to buy this team after Hammister bailed if owning a sports team is so appealing? Who cares its just money, right? Money is everything to people who have the most of it.

 

 

IIRC, Hamister was rejected, he didn't bail, and Bettman (finally getting something right for a change) expressed a preference for a local owner. Given the scarcity of billionaires in WNY (and would we have wanted Snyder to move the team to San Diego?), I'm not surprised that Golisano was the only choice.

[PASabreFan]

Then why is TG roundly criticized on this board for only caring about money and not enough about winning??? And why was he the only one left to buy this team after Hammister bailed if owning a sports team is so appealing? Who cares its just money, right? Money is everything to people who have the most of it.

 

It's hard to say what motivates people. But I feel safe in saying Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money, although he'll turn a nice profit when the time comes to sell. And he didn't buy the team to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo.

[Eleven]

It's hard to say what motivates people. But I feel safe in saying Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money, although he'll turn a nice profit when the time comes to sell. And he didn't buy the team to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo.

 

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by appreciation of the franchise. I thought you were talking appreciation as in "more valuable over time."

[spndnchz]

It's hard to say what motivates people. But I feel safe in saying Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money, although he'll turn a nice profit when the time comes to sell. And he didn't buy the team to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo.

 

Wow. u r really full of ###### today.

[PASabreFan]

Wow. u r really full of ###### today.

 

Say again. Don't type with your potty mouth full.

[PASabreFan]

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by appreciation of the franchise. I thought you were talking appreciation as in "more valuable over time."

 

I was. Why?

[nfreeman]

I don't think that was by design.

 

The key, though, as PA said, is appreciation of the franchise, and not income/loss in each season. The franchise is appreciating in value, especially compared to Golisano's low basis.

It's hard to say what motivates people. But I feel safe in saying Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money, although he'll turn a nice profit when the time comes to sell. And he didn't buy the team to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo.

I agree that he didn't buy the team to make money. I think he bought it more or less as a community service and/or PR move in light of his political ventures.

 

In any case, as I've said before, he certainly didn't buy it for the privilege of funding operating losses. The team needs to be self-sufficient. And in that regard, I don't think appreciation in the value of the franchise is a factor. That type of profit is quite speculative -- there are a million things that could happen (like, say, a major recession or a work stoppage or a terrorist attack -- ie things that are very plausible) that would make that "profit" evaporate.

[Eleven]

I was. Why?

 

Because you also wrote, "But I feel safe in saying Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money..." So I'm confused.

[PASabreFan]

Because you also wrote, "But I feel safe in saying Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money..." So I'm confused.

 

One of my personalities meant:

 

1. He didn't buy the franchise so he could cash in when he sold it.

 

2. He bought it to cash in when he sold it, but he didn't buy it to make a lot of money on a year to year basis.

 

They are meeting now to get their stories straight.

 

Actually, I think the word "although" covers me: "Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money, although he'll turn a nice profit when the time comes to sell."

[Eleven]

One of my personalities meant:

 

1. He didn't buy the franchise so he could cash in when he sold it.

 

2. He bought it to cash in when he sold it, but he didn't buy it to make a lot of money on a year to year basis.

 

They are meeting now to get their stories straight.

 

Actually, I think the word "although" covers me: "Golisano did not buy the Sabres to make money, although he'll turn a nice profit when the time comes to sell."

 

2 is the one that makes sense. Let me know what the third personality (that's the arbitrator, right?) decides.

[TheChimp]

Do rich people sit down and think objectively about buying sports teams? A cold analysis of the numbers? Let's see, I'm worth a couple billion... hot damn, if I buy an NHL franchise, and run a very tight ship, I could make a few million a year! But, be careful, bud... I could also lose a couple million.

 

It just makes no sense, sorry. I think rich people buy sports teams for the thrill of it, the prestige, the ego, the desire to win. For lots of reasons beyond the annual bottom line.

 

I think the key here is the appreciation of the franchise. Then again, I know I have no clue what the ###### I am talking about.

Golisano bought the team to be a hero and earn himself some major political clout in the process. He's already admitted that the team is available to anyone else who is willing to match his selling cost AND wants to keep the team in Buffalo. Been saying it from day one. ######, he even conceded that his management team might not be the best possible one out there and that he wouldn't really know the difference and again mentioned that if the right buyer was out there, they could have their go at it.

 

Tom Golisano is so NOT interested in the team winning a Cup it's not even funny. He is running the thing like a businessman, holding the ship until a real fanatic buys them and takes the real risks necessary to win it all. He's doing a PERFECT job as an interim owner, the only problem is, nobody gets it that he's not interested long-term, or they simply can't afford what he's asking.

 

IMO, a REAL hero would figure out a way to expediate the sale to a more determined bunch of fellas and recoup his costs and forget the profit.

[PASabreFan]

IMO, a REAL hero would figure out a way to expediate the sale to a more determined bunch of fellas and recoup his costs and forget the profit.

I pray morning, noon and night, in the Buffalo Sports Fan Position, that this happens soon.

 

Now, what's the chance of a new ownership group retaining Quinn, Regier and Ruff? :wallbash:

[Kristian]

I pray morning, noon and night, in the Buffalo Sports Fan Position, that this happens soon.

 

Now, what's the chance of a new ownership group retaining Quinn, Regier and Ruff? :wallbash:

 

Please don't say that. Don't even THINK that!

 

You know there's only ONE fanbase in the world, tormented enough for something like this to actually happen.

[nfreeman]

Golisano bought the team to be a hero and earn himself some major political clout in the process. He's already admitted that the team is available to anyone else who is willing to match his selling cost AND wants to keep the team in Buffalo. Been saying it from day one. ######, he even conceded that his management team might not be the best possible one out there and that he wouldn't really know the difference and again mentioned that if the right buyer was out there, they could have their go at it.

 

Link? I don't think he's said any of this. The only thing that anyone has said about selling the team that I'm aware of is that the team is not for sale, but if someone called with an amazing offer, a sale would be possible. And as far as that goes -- no kidding. I think the same would be true for most owners.