Roy and Connolly

[SwampD]

In the last few days there have been many trade proposals, most of which we know are never going to happen. One phrase that keeps popping up is "Roy or Connolly". Someone would write "the Sabres send them Roy or Connolly and we get X."

 

My question is how in the world are these two players interchangeable when these trade suggestions come up? My answer is that that are not. In fact, I don't even think it's close. In their time here, from games played to goals/assists/points scored to cap hit to impact on the team, Roy is so much more valuable that I am baffled by these comments. That's even before you add the fact that Connolly is a center that doesn't take faceoffs,... :blink:... what?

 

Whenever I see a suggested lineup from someone for next year, that doesn't include Connolly, I am actually happy. I admit that I don't like Connolly, and you don't have to like Roy, but I wish someone would give me an unbiased, by the numbers reason why people view these two players the same, because I just don't see it.

[billsrcursed]

I don't think it has as much to do with similar numbers as it does they're our top 2 Centers.

 

When trading offensively, it usually involves a top 2 Center to gain any real return, hence the "togetherness" with these two.

 

Other than that, you're in the majority I'm sure in wanting Roy over Timmy. I agree with you on that.

[SabresFanInRochester]

I don't think it has as much to do with similar numbers as it does they're our top 2 Centers.

 

When trading offensively, it usually involves a top 2 Center to gain any real return, hence the "togetherness" with these two.

 

Other than that, you're in the majority I'm sure in wanting Roy over Timmy. I agree with you on that.

 

They are both soft -- that's a similarity. I would prefer Roy goes. He is wreckless with the puck and he turns the puck over way too frequently. But I do agree with you on your assessment, with a couple more years under contract and his point production, Roy is worth more in a trade.

 

As much as I am pissed at Connolly for his lack of productivity in the playoffs, his situation warrants him sticking around for a little while. Connolly is adequate in averaging almost a point per game in the regular season; when you don't have to have the intensity dialed in. So let him help the team get points until the trade deadline and cut him loose for a draft pick. If he is around past that point next year, I will be pissed.

 

That being said, I do hope Roy goes before the season starts and a major center comes into Buffalo. Otherwise, I think we are stuck with Roy, and I hate the thought of that. I don't see any viable options in free agency, so it is up to Darcy to work some magic. Roy, Stafford, 1st round pick, and a prospect for a Staal, or similar-type center. Darcy would never give up that much, and that's a big part of why this will not happen. Plus, another team would have to agree to the trade. As long as Roy and Connolly are on the team, Buffalo will be a playoff team in the 4-8 spot and they will continue to draft relatively late round. Package the first round pick and get a player that will help you now.

[SabresneedaCup]

people might think they are equal because connolly is more flashy and has better points per game ratio but roy is better overall id say.

[carpandean]

people might think they are equal because connolly is more flashy and has better points per game ratio but roy is better overall id say.

Timmy's was a little bit higher last year (0.890 vs. 0.863 PPG), but over the last three seasons, Roy has the edge (0.917 vs. 0.899 PPG.) Plus, Roy has done something that Timmy has never done, finished a season with more than a PPG (1.038 PPG in 2007-08.) Timmy came close (0.979 PPG in 2008-09), but only played 48 games when he did.

[deluca67]

Timmy's was a little bit higher last year (0.890 vs. 0.863 PPG), but over the last three seasons, Roy has the edge (0.917 vs. 0.899 PPG.) Plus, Roy has done something that Timmy has never done, finished a season with more than a PPG (1.038 PPG in 2007-08.) Timmy came close (0.979 PPG in 2008-09), but only played 48 games when he did.

Do you have a spreadsheet showing all the imaginary goals and points Connolly scored over the year? That's where is true value is. Connolly will always be about the player he could have been not the player he is. How often has Regier excused Connolly away by bringing up that he was rushed to the NHL? It may be true but doesn't change anything during his time with the Sabres.

[PASabreFan]

Timmy's was a little bit higher last year (0.890 vs. 0.863 PPG), but over the last three seasons, Roy has the edge (0.917 vs. 0.899 PPG.) Plus, Roy has done something that Timmy has never done, finished a season with more than a PPG (1.038 PPG in 2007-08.) Timmy came close (0.979 PPG in 2008-09), but only played 48 games when he did.

 

These numbers are statistically insignificant. You try too hard sometimes.

[nfreeman]

Roy, Stafford, 1st round pick, and a prospect for a Staal, or similar-type center.

Enough already! Carolina isn't trading Staal!

[deluca67]

Enough already! Carolina isn't trading Staal!

Forget Stall, seems the #1 overall pick is in play. http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=324845

[static70]

Forget Stall, seems the #1 overall pick is in play. http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=324845

Bye Bye Miller. Thats most likely what it would take. Miller as the center piece and add some more, since goalies don't get the return other players do.

 

Buffalo doesn't have what it takes to Land the Number 1 pick from edmonton. I like SabresfaninRochesters thinking, YES PLEASE to Eric Staal!

[LabattBlue]

Enough already! Carolina isn't trading Staal!

Agreed. I hope that people that are touting Staal being traded to Buffalo aren't the same ones that bash Ek. They make the Ek rumors actually sound reasonable. :rolleyes:

[OTTOnME]

In the last few days there have been many trade proposals, most of which we know are never going to happen. One phrase that keeps popping up is "Roy or Connolly". Someone would write "the Sabres send them Roy or Connolly and we get X."

 

My question is how in the world are these two players interchangeable when these trade suggestions come up? My answer is that that are not. In fact, I don't even think it's close. In their time here, from games played to goals/assists/points scored to cap hit to impact on the team, Roy is so much more valuable that I am baffled by these comments. That's even before you add the fact that Connolly is a center that doesn't take faceoffs,... :blink:... what?

 

Whenever I see a suggested lineup from someone for next year, that doesn't include Connolly, I am actually happy. I admit that I don't like Connolly, and you don't have to like Roy, but I wish someone would give me an unbiased, by the numbers reason why people view these two players the same, because I just don't see it.

 

SwampD, please add me to the list of Sabres fans who do not "view these two players the same." Derek Roy and Tim Connolly are not equivalent players. Roy led the team in points the last three seasons. Consistency and productivity like that are impressive. With Connolly, there are always the injuries - and we have to assume that injuries will always be the big question mark with him.

 

Believe me, there isn't a GM in the NHL who views Roy and Connolly as equivalent players. I mentioned on another thread that Brian Burke might be willing to give up Tomas Kaberle for Roy. Burke would not take Connolly for Kaberle.

 

Given Roy's consistency and productivity, I am more than a little surprised to see how much some Sabres fans have soured on him. There have been tales told about his supposedly me-first mentality, and - while we in the cheap seats do not know how true those tales are - they apparently have had a negative effect on hockey fans in Buffalo.

 

Since Roy is productive on the powerplay - and that is the big area of concern in Buffalo* - I would hope that Regier could bring in a defenseman like Kaberle and a forward like Nik Antropov (who will go to the front of the net) without having to give up Derek Roy. With Kaberle and Tyler Myers on the points, and Roy, Antropov and Thomas Vanek up front, the powerplay should be improved.

 

* as we saw in the playoffs

[nfreeman]

Bye Bye Miller. Thats most likely what it would take. Miller as the center piece and add some more, since goalies don't get the return other players do.

 

Buffalo doesn't have what it takes to Land the Number 1 pick from edmonton. I like SabresfaninRochesters thinking, YES PLEASE to Eric Staal!

You don't think they would take Roy, Vanek, Butler and our #1? I do. I'm not sure how I feel about it though.

 

SwampD, please add me to the list of Sabres fans who do not "view these two players the same." Derek Roy and Tim Connolly are not equivalent players. Roy led the team in points the last three seasons. Consistency and productivity like that are impressive. With Connolly, there are always the injuries - and we have to assume that injuries will always be the big question mark with him.

 

Believe me, there isn't a GM in the NHL who views Roy and Connolly as equivalent players. I mentioned on another thread that Brian Burke might be willing to give up Tomas Kaberle for Roy. Burke would not take Connolly for Kaberle.

 

Given Roy's consistency and productivity, I am more than a little surprised to see how much some Sabres fans have soured on him. There have been tales told about his supposedly me-first mentality, and - while we in the cheap seats do not know how true those tales are - they apparently have had a negative effect on hockey fans in Buffalo.

 

Since Roy is productive on the powerplay - and that is the big area of concern in Buffalo* - I would hope that Regier could bring in a defenseman like Kaberle and a forward like Nik Antropov (who will go to the front of the net) without having to give up Derek Roy. With Kaberle and Tyler Myers on the points, and Roy, Antropov and Thomas Vanek up front, the powerplay should be improved.

 

* as we saw in the playoffs

I agree with the bolded part, although I think the big plus for Roy relative to TC in most GMs' minds is Roy's contract.

 

As for souring on Roy -- I'm sour because his playoff performance was abysmal. He had a real opportunity to accomplish something meaningful and completely pooped the bed. Grier outplayed him by a mile. However, I'm not inclined to just dump him since he is a pretty good player with a good contract. Trading him needs to fetch a good return (like Horton or Kaberle). I'd also love it if the Sabres brought in a true #1 center and Roy became the Sabres' #3 center.

 

No thanks on Antropov but yes on Kaberle.

[wonderbread]

SwampD, please add me to the list of Sabres fans who do not "view these two players the same." Derek Roy and Tim Connolly are not equivalent players. Roy led the team in points the last three seasons. Consistency and productivity like that are impressive. With Connolly, there are always the injuries - and we have to assume that injuries will always be the big question mark with him.

 

Believe me, there isn't a GM in the NHL who views Roy and Connolly as equivalent players. I mentioned on another thread that Brian Burke might be willing to give up Tomas Kaberle for Roy. Burke would not take Connolly for Kaberle.

 

Given Roy's consistency and productivity, I am more than a little surprised to see how much some Sabres fans have soured on him. There have been tales told about his supposedly me-first mentality, and - while we in the cheap seats do not know how true those tales are - they apparently have had a negative effect on hockey fans in Buffalo.

 

Since Roy is productive on the powerplay - and that is the big area of concern in Buffalo* - I would hope that Regier could bring in a defenseman like Kaberle and a forward like Nik Antropov (who will go to the front of the net) without having to give up Derek Roy. With Kaberle and Tyler Myers on the points, and Roy, Antropov and Thomas Vanek up front, the powerplay should be improved.

 

* as we saw in the playoffs

 

OK i'm feeling you here on Roy! Not sure how DR is landing Kaberle unless its a #1pick up for grabs. Burke would love to get back in the 1st, and a decent player not Stafford. DR holds em pretty tight.

[deluca67]

OK i'm feeling you here on Roy! Not sure how DR is landing Kaberle unless its a #1pick up for grabs. Burke would love to get back in the 1st, and a decent player not Stafford. DR holds em pretty tight.

He's more likely to trade picks before his own players.

[SwampD]

SwampD, please add me to the list of Sabres fans who do not "view these two players the same." Derek Roy and Tim Connolly are not equivalent players. Roy led the team in points the last three seasons. Consistency and productivity like that are impressive. With Connolly, there are always the injuries - and we have to assume that injuries will always be the big question mark with him.

 

Believe me, there isn't a GM in the NHL who views Roy and Connolly as equivalent players. I mentioned on another thread that Brian Burke might be willing to give up Tomas Kaberle for Roy. Burke would not take Connolly for Kaberle.

 

Given Roy's consistency and productivity, I am more than a little surprised to see how much some Sabres fans have soured on him. There have been tales told about his supposedly me-first mentality, and - while we in the cheap seats do not know how true those tales are - they apparently have had a negative effect on hockey fans in Buffalo.

 

Since Roy is productive on the powerplay - and that is the big area of concern in Buffalo* - I would hope that Regier could bring in a defenseman like Kaberle and a forward like Nik Antropov (who will go to the front of the net) without having to give up Derek Roy. With Kaberle and Tyler Myers on the points, and Roy, Antropov and Thomas Vanek up front, the powerplay should be improved.

 

* as we saw in the playoffs

My faith in Sabres fans is restored.

 

I too would rather have Antropov over Connolly. With relatively the same numbers, I'd rather have a 6'6" 230 guy than a 6'1" 200 guy with a cracked melon.

[tom webster]

My faith in Sabres fans is restored.

 

I too would rather have Antropov over Connolly. With relatively the same numbers, I'd rather have a 6'6" 230 guy than a 6'1" 200 guy with a cracked melon.

 

 

The one thing I think people miss when talking about Vanek is that he needs a forward more like Hemsky then a Horton or an Antropov. Someone with speed and high skill as opposed to a bruiser.

[static70]

Agreed. I hope that people that are touting Staal being traded to Buffalo aren't the same ones that bash Ek. They make the Ek rumors actually sound reasonable. :rolleyes:

Wait, wait, let me stop laughing and get this straight.

You think expressing ones self through independent thinking and free speech by voicing an opinion is in the same catagory as claiming an industry insider gave you information that they heard? I.E. - Ecklunds sources told him ........blah, blah and so on.

 

I am still chuckling at how people attempt to quell others thoughts on subjects, its humor at its finest. :doh:

[SwampD]

The one thing I think people miss when talking about Vanek is that he needs a forward more like Hemsky then a Horton or an Antropov. Someone with speed and high skill as opposed to a bruiser.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Isn't that the tack they've been trying to take with Vanek. Antropov is a pretty big body who wins a lot of battles in the corners to come away with the puck. I see a line where he draws the other teams big bodies to him leaving Vanek free to make plays in front of the net.

[joesabresfan26]

i feel like both of these playes have alot to work on neither one has proven to be a top line center ,and thats waht we need in buffalo. we havent had a true top line center in a few years (Drury).

[LabattBlue]

i feel like both of these playes have alot to work on neither one has proven to be a top line center ,and thats waht we need in buffalo. we havent had a true top line center in a few years (Drury).

Drury has never been a top line center and except for a couple of years coming out of the lockout, it could be argued that he has never been more than a very good 3rd line center. ;)

[nfreeman]

Drury has never been a top line center and except for a couple of years coming out of the lockout, it could be argued that he has never been more than a very good 3rd line center. ;)

And yet I would trade TC or Roy for him in a heartbeat, horrible contract and all.

[Bullwinkle]

And yet I would trade TC or Roy for him in a heartbeat, horrible contract and all.

 

 

I wouldn't. I think Drury's best days are behind him. Look at his performance with the Rangers. Not even average.

 

In fact I've always preferred Briere to Drury, although I know that's a minority opinion.

[shrader]

The one thing I think people miss when talking about Vanek is that he needs a forward more like Hemsky then a Horton or an Antropov. Someone with speed and high skill as opposed to a bruiser.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with this. Isn't that the tack they've been trying to take with Vanek. Antropov is a pretty big body who wins a lot of battles in the corners to come away with the puck. I see a line where he draws the other teams big bodies to him leaving Vanek free to make plays in front of the net.

 

I'm leaning towards TW's suggestion, but you do make an interesting point. You're both basically saying that he needs a setup man, but that setup can come in two very different ways. Why not a little bit of both? If he can continue to develop, Kennedy showed some signs of being a guy who could come away with the puck in the corners. He's not that big body you're talking about, but maybe if you pair that with the skilled setup guy in the middle, you might have something you can work with.

[tom webster]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Isn't that the tack they've been trying to take with Vanek. Antropov is a pretty big body who wins a lot of battles in the corners to come away with the puck. I see a line where he draws the other teams big bodies to him leaving Vanek free to make plays in front of the net.

 

 

Vanek's best year was when Max and Roy's speed created space for him. I think Mike Modano's remarks were telling when he talked about the need to have line mates with speed to compensate for his losing a step. He talked about how the game's changes have made it harder for slower players to compensate for shortcomings in foot speed.