Summing up the Rafi Torres trade

[PotentPowerPlay22]

The Buffalo Sabres have traded reserve defenseman Nathan Paetsch and a second round draft pick in the upcoming draft to the Columbus Blue Jackets for left winger Raffi Torres.

 

Here is the link to the discussion of the trade.

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/16742-raffi-torres-to-buffalo-for-nathan-paetsch-and-a-2nd-round-pick/

 

Here is part my 1st of two posts on the Torres trade:

 

“I'm one of them who dislikes these deals. I don't think anyone will miss Paetsch or MacArthur, but the rental business has been horrible business for the Sabres. Zubrus and Moore come to mind immediately.

 

Dammit quit giving away 1st and 2nd rounders for a two month rentals!

 

 

Some people criticized my analysis at the time, but I stand by my words.

 

I re-read a lot of the posts on the trade and a lot of you should stand by your words also.

 

Who is willing to stand up and call the trade a complete waste?

[SwampD]

Playoff points -

 

Derek Roy - 2

 

Tim Connolly - 1

 

Raffi Torres - 2

[billsrcursed]

I'm not sure what you're trying to gain with this "horn tooter" of a thread, but I'll play along...

 

It doesn't take an idiot to see the trade didn't work. That's obvious. The question is; who's to blame for it not working, Torres or Ruff?

 

-or-

 

Is Darcy to blame for trying to add someone who's resume (at the time) was a gritty offensive two way player to a pussified team lacking in offensive abilities??

 

I find it hard to believe a player gets traded from a crappy team to a playoff contender and suddenly forgets how to score goals. Christ, he was a complete non-factor for nearly every game he laced up for us.

 

Not sure anyone can convice me that something was wrong with him. Sorry, but I can only see one person to blame for this not working out...

[LabattBlue]

Prior to the deadline, I stated that the Sabres IMO were not ready to make a deep playoff run, therefore, acquiring a single rental player was just wasting a high draft pick of a team that like to state that they need to build from within.

 

That being said, Torres stay in Buffalo was a mystery to me. He spent a couple of games on the top two lines, got shifted to the 3rd and 4th lines, went out of the lineup with a injury that nobody seems to know when it happened, there were questions about his conditioning, came back to play on the 3rd and 4th lines and then ended up getting benched for the last few games of the playoffs.

 

...and oh by the way, didn't score a single goal as a Sabre after scoring 19 with Columbus.

 

 

Four 2nd round picks for two rentals(Torres and Moore) and a old and slow defenseman(Rivet).

[rbochan]

Yet another brilliant Regier pickup.

[tom webster]

Prior to the deadline, I stated that the Sabres IMO were not ready to make a deep playoff run, therefore, acquiring a single rental player was just wasting a high draft pick of a team that like to state that they need to build from within.

 

That being said, Torres stay in Buffalo was a mystery to me. He spent a couple of games on the top two lines, got shifted to the 3rd and 4th lines, went out of the lineup with a injury that nobody seems to know when it happened, there were questions about his conditioning, came back to play on the 3rd and 4th lines and then ended up getting benched for the last few games of the playoffs.

 

...and oh by the way, didn't score a single goal as a Sabre after scoring 19 with Columbus.

 

 

Four 2nd round picks for two rentals(Torres and Moore) and a old and slow defenseman(Rivet).

 

 

For what its worth, Torres was a third and fourth line left winger( 13 minutes of ice time) on Columbus who scored half of his goals in the first half of the season.

[static70]

Yet another brilliant Regier pickup.

I approve of this post :thumbsup:

[bunomatic]

Its easy to make a judgement on this trade based on how Torres played here in Buffalo.It was terrible!Its possible Ruff did'nt coach him properly but some if not all of the blame has to fall at the feet of the player.He did'nt produce.Period.I've never liked these trades for rentals.He'll be playing in Toronto next season doing his best to keep Buffalo out of the post season and unfortunately the guys that went the other way to get him will be doing the same.We have one less second rounder for this years draft and we're no further ahead.This team needs a gm thats capable of continuing the team building via the draft and developement of players(Regiers done a good job of this)but he's clearly lacking in the ability to make good hockey trades that IMPROVE THIS TEAM.I want a gm with the balls to make things happen.

[LabattBlue]

For what its worth, Torres was a third and fourth line left winger( 13 minutes of ice time) on Columbus who scored half of his goals in the first half of the season.

I just don't get how it went from bad to worse during his time here? Ruff didn't like him as a player? Torres didn't want to be traded at the deadline? Something else?

[shrader]

Prior to the deadline, I stated that the Sabres IMO were not ready to make a deep playoff run, therefore, acquiring a single rental player was just wasting a high draft pick of a team that like to state that they need to build from within.

 

That being said, Torres stay in Buffalo was a mystery to me. He spent a couple of games on the top two lines, got shifted to the 3rd and 4th lines, went out of the lineup with a injury that nobody seems to know when it happened, there were questions about his conditioning, came back to play on the 3rd and 4th lines and then ended up getting benched for the last few games of the playoffs.

 

...and oh by the way, didn't score a single goal as a Sabre after scoring 19 with Columbus.

 

 

Four 2nd round picks for two rentals(Torres and Moore) and a old and slow defenseman(Rivet).

 

I think it's incredibly short sighted to analyze these deals without looking at the other one's that were made. Do they bring in Moore if they don't move Kotalik? No. Do they bring in Torres if they don't send MacArthur packing? I'm not as sold on that one, but still, they probably don't. The trades are linked, so it's not as simple as just a 2nd for Moore or a 2nd+Paetsch for Torres.

[LabattBlue]

I think it's incredibly short sighted to analyze these deals without looking at the other one's that were made. Do they bring in Moore if they don't move Kotalik? No. Do they bring in Torres if they don't send MacArthur packing? I'm not as sold on that one, but still, they probably don't. The trades are linked, so it's not as simple as just a 2nd for Moore or a 2nd+Paetsch for Torres.

Why are they linked? What does trading a pending UFA(Kotalik) for a 2nd round pick have to do with that pick being flipped for Moore? Why couldn't they just have traded Kotalik? Same goes for MacArthur and Torres. I don't see the connection?

[ntjacks79]

Playoff points -

 

Derek Roy - 2

 

Tim Connolly - 1

 

Raffi Torres - 2

+1. Exactly. Again I say, I am far more down on the top-two lines on this team than this Board is. I think they are absolutely pathetic. Along with Vanek, I think the Sabres could play 5 of their most promising kids in the top-two lines and do as well as they did. That said, this team either needs to go into the FA market and get an impact top-two line forward, or just go with all youngsters and see what happens (and lower ticket prices). They are in purgatory right now... good enough to be in the playoffs, but still have no ability to compete for the Cup. NONE. All that does is destroy your chance to get better.

[shrader]

Why are they linked? What does trading a pending UFA(Kotalik) for a 2nd round pick have to do with that pick being flipped for Moore? Why couldn't they just have traded Kotalik? Same goes for MacArthur and Torres. I don't see the connection?

 

Do you bring in a guy without clearing the roster spot for him? Quite honestly, if you have to ask how the Kotalik and Moore deals are linked, I think you're crazy.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Are you seeing a pattern yet?

 

Ruff can't coach power forwards....they don't fit into his system.

 

A player that is used to "instinctive playing" and who doesn't conform to Lindy's wishes within 5 games of being here, ends up getting shelved.

 

I don't know about you....but any sport I have played in, I don't have to think. That's what practice is for....to make your system instinctive so you can play and not think. It is even worse in pro sports because that millisecond you use to translate from your mind to your body ends up costing you....players are too good.

 

 

Torres said this himself. He is too busy making sure he is on his stage mark in Lindy's production of "Annie Get Your Gun", instead of going out there with passion.

 

Steve Bernier played like a man possesed after being in Buffalo for 6 hours. Once Lindy got his hands on him, he became ineffective. Bernier is in the top 10 goal scorers in the playoffs this year

 

People love Gaustad because he had heart and soul when he came up. Once Drury and Briere left, Lindy got his grubby paws on him and made him tone down his game because he needed him on the ice more. Gaustad unfortunately took it to heart and has played like a "core" member all too often. There is a game or two where he ends up getting grumpy, but I think his regression can be directly attributed to Ruff.

 

I don't blame Regier one bit for going to get Torres. This one lays on Ruff. Maybe it is a self fulfilling prophecy because now Regier can say "see...I told everyone we should build from within", and will be even less likely to try and get someone of meaning to help.

 

I guess when your powerplay system is ring around the rosie....there is no need for a guy like Torres anyway.

[PASabreFan]

Are you seeing a pattern yet?

 

Ruff can't coach power forwards....they don't fit into his system.

 

A player that is used to "instinctive playing" and who doesn't conform to Lindy's wishes within 5 games of being here, ends up getting shelved.

 

I don't know about you....but any sport I have played in, I don't have to think. That's what practice is for....to make your system instinctive so you can play and not think. It is even worse in pro sports because that millisecond you use to translate from your mind to your body ends up costing you....players are too good.

 

 

Torres said this himself. He is too busy making sure he is on his stage mark in Lindy's production of "Annie Get Your Gun", instead of going out there with passion.

 

Steve Bernier played like a man possesed after being in Buffalo for 6 hours. Once Lindy got his hands on him, he became ineffective. Bernier is in the top 10 goal scorers in the playoffs this year

 

People love Gaustad because he had heart and soul when he came up. Once Drury and Briere left, Lindy got his grubby paws on him and made him tone down his game because he needed him on the ice more. Gaustad unfortunately took it to heart and has played like a "core" member all too often. There is a game or two where he ends up getting grumpy, but I think his regression can be directly attributed to Ruff.

 

I don't blame Regier one bit for going to get Torres. This one lays on Ruff. Maybe it is a self fulfilling prophecy because now Regier can say "see...I told everyone we should build from within", and will be even less likely to try and get someone of meaning to help.

 

I guess when your powerplay system is ring around the rosie....there is no need for a guy like Torres anyway.

:worthy:

[LabattBlue]

Are you seeing a pattern yet?

 

Ruff can't coach power forwards....they don't fit into his system.

 

A player that is used to "instinctive playing" and who doesn't conform to Lindy's wishes within 5 games of being here, ends up getting shelved.

 

I don't know about you....but any sport I have played in, I don't have to think. That's what practice is for....to make your system instinctive so you can play and not think. It is even worse in pro sports because that millisecond you use to translate from your mind to your body ends up costing you....players are too good.

 

 

Torres said this himself. He is too busy making sure he is on his stage mark in Lindy's production of "Annie Get Your Gun", instead of going out there with passion.

 

Steve Bernier played like a man possesed after being in Buffalo for 6 hours. Once Lindy got his hands on him, he became ineffective. Bernier is in the top 10 goal scorers in the playoffs this year

 

People love Gaustad because he had heart and soul when he came up. Once Drury and Briere left, Lindy got his grubby paws on him and made him tone down his game because he needed him on the ice more. Gaustad unfortunately took it to heart and has played like a "core" member all too often. There is a game or two where he ends up getting grumpy, but I think his regression can be directly attributed to Ruff.

 

I don't blame Regier one bit for going to get Torres. This one lays on Ruff. Maybe it is a self fulfilling prophecy because now Regier can say "see...I told everyone we should build from within", and will be even less likely to try and get someone of meaning to help.

 

I guess when your powerplay system is ring around the rosie....there is no need for a guy like Torres anyway.

BINGO! :thumbsup:

[LabattBlue]

Do you bring in a guy without clearing the roster spot for him? Quite honestly, if you have to ask how the Kotalik and Moore deals are linked, I think you're crazy.

Was Kotalik traded to Edmonton for a 2nd round pick prior to the Moore to Buffalo deal? If so, I ask the same question, why couldn't they just stop after Kotalik was moved?

[shrader]

Was Kotalik traded to Edmonton for a 2nd round pick prior to the Moore to Buffalo deal? If so, I ask the same question, why couldn't they just stop after Kotalik was moved?

 

The timing of that whole thing was awkward. As I remember it, the Moore deal was actually announced well before the Kotalik deal was, which suggests that it was your classic 3-way deal(or 18-way, that one was tricky). So how did we trade that pick before we had it?

[notwoz]

Are you seeing a pattern yet?

 

Yes. Darcy doesn't know what type of player he needs to sign to help the team move forward in the playoffs, witness: Torres, Moore, Juneau, Corkum!, etc.

[shrader]

Yes. Darcy doesn't know what type of player he needs to sign to help the team move forward in the playoffs, witness: Torres, Moore, Juneau, Corkum!, etc.

 

How many of those did he sign?

[rbochan]

I just don't get how it went from bad to worse during his time here? Ruff didn't like him as a player? Torres didn't want to be traded at the deadline? Something else?

 

Ruff publicly stated that Torres had quite a lack of conditioning when he arrived. There was also scuttlebutt that he was injured. Torres had also previously stated publicly that he wanted to go to Toronto.

[spndnchz]

Who is this 'Torres' u speak of?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Ruff publicly stated that Torres had quite a lack of conditioning when he arrived. There was also scuttlebutt that he was injured. Torres had also previously stated publicly that he wanted to go to Toronto.

 

Torres had a lack of conditioning because he is used to chasing a dumped puck, stopping himself by colliding into an opposing player, then setting up 1 foot in front of the crease in order to score one of his team leading goals.

 

In Buffalo, he crossed the blueline, circled back at the goaline as soon as opposition touched a puck, windsprinted back to his own zone as to not give up a forbidden 4 on 3, circled at his own faceoff circle, headed back to the opposition blueline trying to stay onside, then circled back to the bench.

 

Bernier was out of shape too.

 

In Lindy's eyes, Cam Neely and Mike Bossy were out of shape as well.

[shrader]

Well, Cam Neely did have those constant health issues. :D

[SwampD]

Torres had a lack of conditioning because he is used to chasing a dumped puck, stopping himself by colliding into an opposing player, then setting up 1 foot in front of the crease in order to score one of his team leading goals.

 

In Buffalo, he crossed the blueline, circled back at the goaline as soon as opposition touched a puck, windsprinted back to his own zone as to not give up a forbidden 4 on 3, circled at his own faceoff circle, headed back to the opposition blueline trying to stay onside, then circled back to the bench.

 

Bernier was out of shape too.

 

In Lindy's eyes, Cam Neely and Mike Bossy were out of shape as well.

Spot on. Love the avitar,... or do I hate it?...