shrader Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Again we aren't talking about penalties. I've stated many times that scoring in 2005-2006 was effected by penalty calls. We're talking about the nature of the game changing and about fans claiming that the type of team the Sabres had in 2005-2007 not being suited for 'today's game'. Show me a post from any forum, doesn't have to be this one where someone makes a claim like was made in this thread. Show me someone saying....this thing isn't going to work in today's game, you can't have 3 scoring lines LOL, show me someone saying that we can't have 3 scoring lines. IT DOESN'T EXIST. So the focus of the discussion changes to whatever you feel it should be? Why do we even bother playing this game when you just immediately play the "oh, well I was actually saying this" card? Since I don't post on other boards, I can't tell you what goes on/went on there. Quite frankly, I don't care. But I can tell you that there were indeed questions here at that time. Unfortunately they lost a lot of data here so I can't back that up. But then again, it doesn't really matter what anyone here says, because at the end of the day, you don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Oh now it's the first years after the lockout! I maintain that the major factor was penalties in ONE season 2005-2006, not some garbage about teams making epic changes in the way the game is played. Your 'stats' attacking my post didn't hold up too well so now it looks like you want to make an adjustment. Can you tell me now when this thing you describe took place? As far as a definition of normal fluxuation I expect to see a significant drop after 2005-2006 mainly based on penalty calls, and far smaller fluxuations afterwards. Furthermore I expect to see the drop off in scoring by the Sabres to out of line with the 29 other teams. This is self fulfilling for the Sabres, they lost like 53 goals in one season, that is not a league thing that's a Sabres thing. Goals went from 7443 to 7082 to 6691 to 7006 and are on pace for 6765 this year. Seems like a significant drop off to me. I'm done with this as I think we carried it to the end. My "stats' did hold up, I just used a difference reference point counting all goals the NHL gives teams credit for. The point still stood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Go ask Bill Hoppe if he sees the Sabres naked in the locker room that's more your speed. Proving my point. You have an open invitation to come chill with me, smoke doobs and watch gay porn. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSmith Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 So the focus of the discussion changes to whatever you feel it should be? Why do we even bother playing this game when you just immediately play the "oh, well I was actually saying this" card? Since I don't post on other boards, I can't tell you what goes on/went on there. Quite frankly, I don't care. But I can tell you that there were indeed questions here at that time. Unfortunately they lost a lot of data here so I can't back that up. But then again, it doesn't really matter what anyone here says, because at the end of the day, you don't care. Nice try I never changed the focus of nature of anything I said. I would recommend a remdial reading course, that might be of help to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Again we aren't talking about penalties. I've stated many times that scoring in 2005-2006 was effected by penalty calls. That was never in question. We're talking about the nature of the game changing and about fans claiming that the type of team the Sabres had in 2005-2007 not being suited for 'today's game'. Show me a post from any forum, doesn't have to be this one where someone makes a claim like was made in this thread. Show me someone in 06/07 saying....this thing isn't going to work in today's game, you can't have 3 scoring lines LOL, show me someone saying that we can't have 3 scoring lines. IT DOESN'T EXIST. a) I loved that team of 06/07 and took quite a bit of abuse defending it so I know what people were saying. b) Show me a team that won the Cup that had 3 scoring lines with no clear cut number one line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Nice try I never changed the focus of nature of anything I said. I would recommend a remdial reading course, that might be of help to you. And there's the other phase of the game. Nothing to say, so I'll just claim you don't know how to read. You can say all you want about how certain people with high post counts have no lives, but how many times are you going to play this same exact game over and over, account after account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Tom, i almost never disagree with your posts, except that huge Tampa Bay argument we had last year, but, Lydman better then Orpik? There is just no way. I won't claim i watch the Pens often because i don't, i find their play by play guys annoying so i stay away from their telecasts, but, when they play a big games, even a non versus game, it's hard to stay away, and Orpik almost always shines in big games. You can notice him. He logs big time minutes against top lines and penalty killing, and he's a very good hitter. He clears the crease for M.A. Fluery very well. Orpik is the best d-men Pittsburgh had the last 2-seasons. Lydman can't handle the responsibilities that Orpik has. I respect your opinion, as you know, but on a team whose defense has been decimated by injuries, Orpik is third with an average ice time of just over 20 minutes. Lydman handled the top pairing for two years with the sabres and I would argue that Tallinder's play adversely effected Lydman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 i'm normally one to counsel that we not feed the trolls. Proving my point. You have an open invitation to come chill with me, smoke doobs and watch gay porn. :) but this, this i liked a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Reminds me of Mancari. Keeps trying but keeps getting sent down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Proving my point. You have an open invitation to come chill with me, smoke doobs and watch gay porn. :) Dude i'll chill with you but can we just watch Trailer Park Boys instead of the gay porn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I respect your opinion, as you know, but on a team whose defense has been decimated by injuries, Orpik is third with an average ice time of just over 20 minutes. Lydman handled the top pairing for two years with the sabres and I would argue that Tallinder's play adversely effected Lydman. This helps your point and hurts mine, but Orpik is actually 4th in ice time among Pittsburgh's defensemen: check it out. Even so, he's averaging over 20 min. per game for the defending Cup champions and he plays in cruch time with Gonchar. As V-M noted, he's also a physical presence in front of the net. I'd take him in a second over any Sabres defenseman except Myers. Reminds me of Mancari. Keeps trying but keeps getting sent down. very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Tom, i almost never disagree with your posts, except that huge Tampa Bay argument we had last year, but, Lydman better then Orpik? There is just no way. I won't claim i watch the Pens often because i don't, i find their play by play guys annoying so i stay away from their telecasts, but, when they play a big games, even a non versus game, it's hard to stay away, and Orpik almost always shines in big games. You can notice him. He logs big time minutes against top lines and penalty killing, and he's a very good hitter. He clears the crease for M.A. Fluery very well. Orpik is the best d-men Pittsburgh had the last 2-seasons. Lydman can't handle the responsibilities that Orpik has. In all fairness they are two different style defensemen. Orpik is nowhere near the skater Lydman. Lydman has shown a willingness in the past to block shots. He is currently fourth this season despite only playing 45 games. Where Orpik steps away from Lydamn and most current Sabres blueliners is below the faceoff dots. Orpik had 309 hits last season. That will be more than the top two Sabres finish last season with. He is on pace to finish with more than the top two Sabres, Kaleta and Gaustad, combined again this season. You can add about 250 - 300 blocks shots over last season and this year. Seems to go against Lindy's fear of putting himself out of position being a +17 over this season and last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted February 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 In all fairness they are two different style defensemen. Orpik is nowhere near the skater Lydman. Lydman has shown a willingness in the past to block shots. He is currently fourth this season despite only playing 45 games. Where Orpik steps away from Lydamn and most current Sabres blueliners is below the faceoff dots. Orpik had 309 hits last season. That will be more than the top two Sabres finish last season with. He is on pace to finish with more than the top two Sabres, Kaleta and Gaustad, combined again this season. You can add about 250 - 300 blocks shots over last season and this year. Seems to go against Lindy's fear of putting himself out of position being a +17 over this season and last. Not blocking shots has nothing to do with Lindy's fear of putting players out of position. The team is built around Miller and because of his technical soundness and superior lateral movement the team is not asked to block shots. Would I like Orpik on the team? Yes as my #4 defensemen and penalty kill specialist in the $2.8 to $3.2 million range, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Not blocking shots has nothing to do with Lindy's fear of putting players out of position. The team is built around Miller and because of his technical soundness and superior lateral movement the team is not asked to block shots. Would I like Orpik on the team? Yes as my #4 defensemen and penalty kill specialist in the $2.8 to $3.2 million range, Not at the expense of Lydman. Who's the guy who makes saves when Miller gets caught out of position? Lydman. Every time. He's like another goalie. Orpik is a thug. A local thug, fine, but we already have one of those, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Not blocking shots has nothing to do with Lindy's fear of putting players out of position. The team is built around Miller and because of his technical soundness and superior lateral movement the team is not asked to block shots. Would I like Orpik on the team? Yes as my #4 defensemen and penalty kill specialist in the $2.8 to $3.2 million range, I would love Orpik as this teams #4. Problem is the Sabres don't have three defensemen better. Myers is a rookie and has shown well. I like Butler a lot. If you want to make that 3 of the 4 I would be fine with that. There is no one else on the current roster to fill the fourth spot. Tallinder is having a nice comeback year but there is no way in hell I would invest in him long term even if for only one season. The rest of the defensemen could be waived tomorrow and I wouldn't be concerned. When was it established that Lindy is telling his player to get out of the way of shots? I don;t remeber hearing that in a interview or reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Not at the expense of Lydman. Who's the guy who makes saves when Miller gets caught out of position? Lydman. Every time. He's like another goalie. Orpik is a thug. A local thug, fine, but we already have one of those, too. That's is of course when his not serving a penalty in the final minute of a close game because he can't stop taking stupid penalties at the wrong time. Orpik is better than Lydman. He is also better than Tallinder, Rivet, Montador and Paestch. I don;t say Myers and Butler simply because they have yet to fully establish the type of players they will be. If I had to go into a playoff series this year and could only choose one? I would pick Orpik over Myers and Butler this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 That's is of course when his not serving a penalty in the final minute of a close game because he can't stop taking stupid penalties at the wrong time. Orpik is better than Lydman. He is also better than Tallinder, Rivet, Montador and Paestch. I don;t say Myers and Butler simply because they have yet to fully establish the type of players they will be. If I had to go into a playoff series this year and could only choose one? I would pick Orpik over Myers and Butler this season. Orpik is a good player but in my opinion he has made a living off of one or two shifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Not at the expense of Lydman. Who's the guy who makes saves when Miller gets caught out of position? Lydman. Every time. He's like another goalie. And unfortunately, thanks to his shortcomings moving the puck, he leads to a few extra shots being thrown at Miller. That's my only complaint when it comes to Lydman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 I'd like Jack Johnson AND Tim Gleason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 I'd like Jack Johnson AND Tim Gleason. Good luck with that. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 I'd like Jack Johnson AND Tim Gleason. I'd like Alex Ovechkin and Sydney Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 speaking of.... the best players in the league.. but here's another bias CAPS site... tiny love for Miller, a small amount more for Crosby, and a WHOLE MOUTHFUL for Ovechkin. good read tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 A caps site showing a lot of love towards Ovechkin? I never would have expected that. By the way, Are you the new SabresRepublic of ellipses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ForTripping Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Orpik is a good player but in my opinion he has made a living off of one or two shifts. Just like Soupy . He got that gagger of a contract for hitting Umberger. 1 shift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 A caps site showing a lot of love towards Ovechkin? I never would have expected that. By the way, Are you the new SabresRepublic of ellipses? Why so grumpy Bob? A little bit too much caffeine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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