Is Lindy Ruff the new Marv Levy?

[BetweenThePipes00]

You would think that an elite coach wouldn't have to sell himself. You would think that star players would be lining up to play for an elite coach. You would think that star players would be willing to stay and take a hometown discount to be able to play for an elite coach, not leave at the first chance of a bigger payday or to not play at all.

 

Well, you might not but I sure would.

 

You would? Can you come up with a single example in the NHL since free agency started? Hossa to Detroit is about the only example I can think of, and he went for one year and then bailed for the money ... so Babcock's genius could not keep him there. Still, I guess Babcock would be an example in this case ... but even then, would people be flocking to play for him or to play with Datsyuk/Lidstrom/Zetterberg/etc.?

 

Who else is an "elite coach?" One who won a Cup? Like Tortorella? Think the Rangers are enjoying what a happy guy he is? Laviolette? Three years removed from a Cup, been fired and now working wonders (not) with Philly. Hitchcock is sinking fast in Columbus.

 

I am NOT saying Ruff is better than these guys just because he has kept his job, but come on ... if there is any consideration beyond money, it's the other star players on the team, not the coach. I could be coaching the Penguins and free agents would consider playing for me if I could fit them under the cap and put them on Crosby's wing.

[PASabreFan]

As you know, this is simply wrong as a factual matter.

The post-lockout years were aberrations, and most of us recognize why. Taken as a whole, The Ruff Era, offensively speaking, has been beyond frustrating to watch.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

You would think that an elite coach wouldn't have to sell himself. You would think that star players would be lining up to play for an elite coach. You would think that star players would be willing to stay and take a hometown discount to be able to play for an elite coach, not leave at the first chance of a bigger payday or to not play at all.

 

Well, you might not but I sure would.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and media exposure has way more influence.

[billsrcursed]

OK, I still haven't found any link or heard any "mainstream" media discussion of McCutcheon being demoted from PP duty.

 

Oh, me neither. I was going off of what Cheese said. If he didn't, they definitely have changed their approach to gaining the zone on the PP. I haven't seen them drop the puck back in a couple of games. Regardless, I'm not sure Ruff would be to blame, although if their PP continues the way it has, and Ruff does nothing to change that, then I would begin to place the blame on Ruff, strictly speaking in terms of the gameplan for the PP.

 

And to clarify, when the team was doing good, I never clamored for Ruff to be crowned "King of NHL". I firmly believe that the Coach is responsible for creating a plan of attack on a game to game basis, and it's up to the players to execute. One thing Ruff should be doing is adjusting his plan based on personnel. I see lines juggled to no end, so that makes me believe Ruff is aware that something isn't right.

 

IMHO, we're a first place team because of Miller, but our players are simply not putting forth the effort needed to execute. Certainly not like they were when the season started. But like someone else said, it would be a hard sell for Ruff to start disciplining players now, be it by calling guys up, sitting guys in the box, whatever..... when the team is still in first place.

[nfreeman]

You would? Can you come up with a single example in the NHL since free agency started? Hossa to Detroit is about the only example I can think of, and he went for one year and then bailed for the money ... so Babcock's genius could not keep him there. Still, I guess Babcock would be an example in this case ... but even then, would people be flocking to play for him or to play with Datsyuk/Lidstrom/Zetterberg/etc.?

 

Who else is an "elite coach?" One who won a Cup? Like Tortorella? Think the Rangers are enjoying what a happy guy he is? Laviolette? Three years removed from a Cup, been fired and now working wonders (not) with Philly. Hitchcock is sinking fast in Columbus.

 

I am NOT saying Ruff is better than these guys just because he has kept his job, but come on ... if there is any consideration beyond money, it's the other star players on the team, not the coach. I could be coaching the Penguins and free agents would consider playing for me if I could fit them under the cap and put them on Crosby's wing.

good post.

 

The post-lockout years were aberrations, and most of us recognize why. Taken as a whole, The Ruff Era, offensively speaking, has been beyond frustrating to watch.

Has Lindy been playing center during the Ruff era?

 

Has Perreault? Lafontaine?

 

Is TC/Roy not the weakest top 2 center combination, and TC/Roy/Vanek/Pommer not the weakest top 4 forward rotation, out of any top 10 team in the NHL?

 

Were you not pleased with the results when Lindy had Dominik?

 

Were you not pleased with the results in the 1st 2 years post-lockout?

 

Do you think another coach would have gotten more wins out of this Sabres team this season?

 

In other words, give Lindy a horse, and he'll figure out how to hitch the team's wagon to it. He's given Vanek multiple chances to be the guy, and Vanek's left the opportunity unseized. Same with Connolly, Roy and Pommer. They aren't the kind of guys that can carry a team. Miller is, so Lindy's figured out a style that relies on and supports Miller and that gives this team the best chance to win.

[JJFIVEOH]

I see so many pretty offensive plays from around the league and I wonder why our team doesn't score the same quality goals as these other teams. I don't even see the same quality chances, let alone the same scoring.

 

 

 

I also don't see many teams winning as often as we do. ;)

[BADMOFO518]

good post.

 

 

Has Lindy been playing center during the Ruff era?

 

Has Perreault? Lafontaine?

 

Is TC/Roy not the weakest top 2 center combination, and TC/Roy/Vanek/Pommer not the weakest top 4 forward rotation, out of any top 10 team in the NHL?

 

Were you not pleased with the results when Lindy had Dominik?

 

Were you not pleased with the results in the 1st 2 years post-lockout?

 

Do you think another coach would have gotten more wins out of this Sabres team this season?

 

In other words, give Lindy a horse, and he'll figure out how to hitch the team's wagon to it. He's given Vanek multiple chances to be the guy, and Vanek's left the opportunity unseized. Same with Connolly, Roy and Pommer. They aren't the kind of guys that can carry a team. Miller is, so Lindy's figured out a style that relies on and supports Miller and that gives this team the best chance to win.

yeah i concur, lindy is a tough sell for some people but f ya look at the facts, the numbers on paper and what he has to ork with, he could be considered a miracle worker. Connoly, Roy, Vanek, these guys need a reality check. Regier and Quinn need to dismantle the front of this offense in a hurry before the postseason if we have any prayer of going deep into the playoffs. Most of all, and i have said this before, a REAL LEADER needs to be inserted into this locker room!!!!

[deluca67]

As you know, this is simply wrong as a factual matter. The Sabres were in the top 5 in the league in scoring for 3 seasons in a row starting in 2005. Do you hold Lindy accountable for them ranking lower in the Hasek era? Is it his fault that Brian Holzinger and Curtis Brown weren't 40-goal guys?

 

 

 

 

3 excellent posts.

 

BTW, I'd take another Marv for the Bills right now in a heartbeat.

Levy was a babysitter. Jauron could have taken those teams to the Super Bowls.

[nfreeman]

Levy was a babysitter. Jauron could have taken those teams to the Super Bowls.

Nonsense, on both counts.

[deluca67]

Nonsense, on both counts.

When did Marv Levy ever out coach anyone? This team won solely on the talent Bill Polian put together. When they played teams that had comparable talent they were at a disadvantage. Marv Levy is a glorified Barry Switzer or George Seifert. He was handed a roster with a lot of talent, a lot of HOF talent, and couldn't get it done.

 

The "nonsense" is considering Levy a great coach. He himself would refer to his duties as more of a administrator / delegator. He left his game planning to the coordinators, play calling was done by Jim Kelly and half time adjustments were non-existent.

[R_Dudley]

Are they regressing or have they been elevated to roles they were never capable of being? Roy and Pominville were great in supporting roles, not so much as leaders.

You look at a team like Detroit, their supporting players, always thought to be being capable of being other team's stars, rarely do anything when they leave for another team. The difference with organizations like that and those like Buffalo is that Detroit keeps their leaders and just keeps replacing the supporting players. Buffalo tried replacing their leaders and promoting the supporting players. So far, only Miller and to a lesser extent Gaustad, have stepped up. Is that on Ruff or Reiger?

That's pretty obvious now.

 

I completely agree with you, but I am not sure they can get out of the mess. They would need to find somebody to take on the contracts of either Timmy, Jason or Jochen and then find replacements. I think they have done a fine job of re-tooling the 3rd and 4th lines. Unfortunately, they are going to have to get lucky in order to improve the top 2.

 

One final note, I can almost guarantee you that Lindy did not sign off on the Connolly deal

Well then that begs the question are the coach and GM really on the same page ?

 

Going back to what I wrote yesterday...Miller is entering his prime years which could be wasted if DR does not find a way to rid this team of the expensive dead weight or at least some of it.

 

Actually isn't he largely responsible for the dead weight ?

 

I have and do question some of Ruff's decisions and coaching however I do not see someone else taking our current collection of lead and turning them suddenly into gold either. The issue I see again this year is the same thing I saw last year we do not have good or solid 1st or 2nd line center's. I favor an offense built around at least 1 quality player at the number 1 or 2 center position. Until that happen's good bad or indifferent we have a system and team built around Ryan Miller and a coaching change now doesn't change that w/o changing our makeup in the top 6.

[PASabreFan]

I have and do question some of Ruff's decisions and coaching however I do not see someone else taking our current collection of lead and turning them suddenly into gold either. The issue I see again this year is the same thing I saw last year we do not have good or solid 1st or 2nd line center's. I favor an offense built around at least 1 quality player at the number 1 or 2 center position. Until that happen's good bad or indifferent we have a system and team built around Ryan Miller and a coaching change now doesn't change that w/o changing our makeup in the top 6.

What would a change hurt? Goaltending has nothing to do with coaching, so the strength of the team stays in place. (And if it's the defensive system installed by Ruff that accounts for Miller's ascension to the elite -- I doubt it -- a new coach would be foolish to change much of it.) If a new coach can't get more goals out of this team, you still haven't lost anything. But if a new approach, a new personality, a new outlook lights the lamp... look out.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. Except that ownership has branded this team with Ruff. He is the superstar player we can't afford. The stands are pretty much packed. I'll never understand it, but I have no doubt firing Ruff would piss off the fan base. Well, I understand that Ruff is a popular former player, and as close to a Buffalo boy as someone from Alberta can be, and seen as a blue collar bad ass. And he's gotten us close once or twice. In Buffalo, that's enough.

[deluca67]

What would a change hurt? Goaltending has nothing to do with coaching, so the strength of the team stays in place. (And if it's the defensive system installed by Ruff that accounts for Miller's ascension to the elite -- I doubt it -- a new coach would be foolish to change much of it.) If a new coach can't get more goals out of this team, you still haven't lost anything. But if a new approach, a new personality, a new outlook lights the lamp... look out.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. Except that ownership has branded this team with Ruff. He is the superstar player we can't afford. The stands are pretty much packed. I'll never understand it, but I have no doubt firing Ruff would piss off the fan base. Well, I understand that Ruff is a popular former player, and as close to a Buffalo boy as someone from Alberta can be, and seen as a blue collar bad ass. And he's gotten us close once or twice. In Buffalo, that's enough.

It's extremely sensible considering the only thing this team has going for it also happens to be the aspect of the game he has little if any influence on as you pointed out. This team's offense is atrocious (2.6 gpg 21st in NHL) and the power play is to a point they should just decline the penalties (25th at 16.2%). The Sabres are even 22nd in faceoff percentage at 48.7. Where they are doing well are all stats directly attributed to Ryan Miller , 4th in goals against at 2.22 and 9th in PK at 83.7. The team defense myth is destroyed by the Sabres giving up the 10th most shots in the league at 31 per game.

 

I have to ask. Where is Lindy Ruff making this team better by being behind the bench? They're bottom third in the stats he has influence over and top third in those he has zero influence.

[deluca67]

Some other interesting stats :

 

Buffalo is :

 

30th in hits.

25th in block shots.

3rd in giveaways.

23 in takeaways.

 

Where is the positive Lindy Ruff influence?

[PASabreFan]

Some other interesting stats :

 

Buffalo is :

 

30th in hits.

25th in block shots.

3rd in giveaways.

23 in takeaways.

 

Where is the positive Lindy Ruff influence?

 

:worthy:

The tide is turning. People are starting to talk. Someone called into the postgame show last night and called for a new coach. Brian Koziol cut him off and pointed out that visiting media members refer to Ruff as "the best coach in the NHL." lindymustgo.com will be the final nail. Coming very soon. I'm also *this* close to having enough money for a sandwich board. I just need someone to wear it. chz?

[deluca67]

:worthy:

The tide is turning. People are starting to talk. Someone called into the postgame show last night and called for a new coach. Brian Koziol cut him off and pointed out that visiting media members refer to Ruff as "the best coach in the NHL." lindymustgo.com will be the final nail. Coming very soon. I'm also *this* close to having enough money for a sandwich board. I just need someone to wear it. chz?

More will turn around. Sabre fans are like the guys who refuse to realize their girlfriend is cheating on them. They ignore the hickeys, the condoms in the purse and the lack of underwear when she comes home. Eventually reality will kick in.

[cdexchange]

The tide is turning. People are starting to talk. lindymustgo.com will be the final nail. Coming very soon.

 

 

More will turn around. Sabre fans are like the guys who refuse to realize their girlfriend is cheating on them. They ignore the hickeys, the condoms in the purse and the lack of underwear when she comes home. Eventually reality will kick in.

 

 

...you mean like this reality?

 

I'm sorry, but any kind of "Fire Ruff" groundswell at this point would be utterly ridiculous, and would make us fans the laughing stock of the league.

 

I'm not saying Ruff is bulletproof, or that a change shouldn't be considered at some point (for example if they put together a double-digit losing streak)...but all this talk in mid-season while the team is in first place is just plain silly.

[SwampD]

More will turn around. Sabre fans are like the guys who refuse to realize their girlfriend is cheating on them. They ignore the hickeys, the condoms in the purse and the lack of underwear when she comes home. Eventually reality will kick in.

So you ignored the hickeys and condoms, but not the underwear, huh? ;) I remember you being one of the "we'd be much worse off without him" guys. The tide is definitely turning.

[deluca67]

...you mean like this reality?

 

 

I'm sorry, but any kind of "Fire Ruff" groundswell at this point would be utterly ridiculous, and would make us fans the laughing stock of the league.

 

I'm not saying Ruff is bulletproof, or that a change shouldn't be considered at some point (for example if they put together a double-digit losing streak)...but all this talk in mid-season with the team in first place is just plain silly.

The "reality" is that Miller is the sole reason the Sabres are where they are in the standings. If you you have failures over the majority of your business but you are making a profit with the smaller percentage that is making profit you won't look at addressing your short comings? The Sabres could ride Miller for as long as he can carry them. The did it with Hasek. Hasek was a better goalies and they couldn't get it done. Other than Miller, there is no aspect of this franchise that shouldn't be scrutinized.

[Eric in Akron]

...you mean like this reality?

 

I'm sorry, but any kind of "Fire Ruff" groundswell at this point would be utterly ridiculous, and would make us fans the laughing stock of the league.

 

I'm not saying Ruff is bulletproof, or that a change shouldn't be considered at some point (for example if they put together a double-digit losing streak)...but all this talk in mid-season while the team is in first place is just plain silly.

 

You should never live on the laurels of what you have now when you can recognize an issues. You can be happy with the standings as they stand now and look back on them when the Sabres either miss the playoffs or are exiting first round. You ignore the minor issues now and they become bigger and bigger until it is too late.

 

Please realize that the Sabres were the only team that started hot in our division and have been hanging onto first place. Unless something changes, Ottawa and Boston who have been finding their games will overtake us in the standings.

 

EDIT: I should point out (clarify) that I realize that Boston and Ottawa are not winning consistently but I said they are finding their games. They continue to get better as the season wears on.

[deluca67]

So you ignored the hickeys and condoms, but not the underwear, huh? ;) I remember you being one of the "we'd be much worse off without him" guys. The tide is definitely turning.

It is as simple as that how little I thought of this roster they are not even living up to my modest expectations of the current talent. I look at the regression of players like Pominville and Vanek as tell tale signs. I see a team with little talent that doesn't even live up to that talent level. The numbers tell the story. As Miller goes so does this franchises playoff chances. Coaching and the talent upfront are detriments at this point.

[PASabreFan]

...you mean like this reality?

 

I'm sorry, but any kind of "Fire Ruff" groundswell at this point would be utterly ridiculous, and would make us fans the laughing stock of the league.

 

I'm not saying Ruff is bulletproof, or that a change shouldn't be considered at some point (for example if they put together a double-digit losing streak)...but all this talk in mid-season while the team is in first place is just plain silly.

 

Lindy is lucky that Lou Lamoriello is not our GM.

[R_Dudley]

It is as simple as that how little I thought of this roster they are not even living up to my modest expectations of the current talent. I look at the regression of players like Pominville and Vanek as tell tale signs. I see a team with little talent that doesn't even live up to that talent level. The numbers tell the story. As Miller goes so does this franchises playoff chances. Coaching and the talent upfront are detriments at this point.

I can and do agree with this and I also wonder if his newest phoenix remake of his game style has added to the loss of the teams talent performance.

 

Lindy is lucky that Lou Lamoriello is not our GM.

 

So then the GM Darcy in your eyes is worth keeping and has nothing to do with this mess we are in ?

 

To me that's a big part of where this problem starts.

[spndnchz]

:worthy:

The tide is turning. People are starting to talk. Someone called into the postgame show last night and called for a new coach. Brian Koziol cut him off and pointed out that visiting media members refer to Ruff as "the best coach in the NHL." lindymustgo.com will be the final nail. Coming very soon. I'm also *this* close to having enough money for a sandwich board. I just need someone to wear it. chz?

 

I'm not on the burn Lindy down boat yet.

[cdexchange]

The "reality" is that Miller is the sole main reason the Sabres are where they are in the standings.

 

 

Fixed. C'mon, the Sabres have also been playing good team D all year. They're not giving up alot of quality chances, and they haven't had trouble holding onto a lead like last year. There's no way you can discount the D entirely.