No wonder no moves are being made...

[thesportsbuff]

This is the second time I've read this and I just don't agree. If the money is the same,.. I'll take Roy.

 

do you say that based on how good of a player they are, or because you're scared Connolly is going to get hurt? I don't know how they compare statistically during that stretch (maybe PA knows :thumbsup: :thumbsup:) but I personally think that Connolly was a much better player and even somewhat of a leader at times. Don't get me wrong, I like them both. but if it came down to it, I'd take Connolly.

[SwampD]

do you say that based on how good of a player they are, or because you're scared Connolly is going to get hurt? I don't know how they compare statistically during that stretch (maybe PA knows :thumbsup: :thumbsup:) but I personally think that Connolly was a much better player and even somewhat of a leader at times. Don't get me wrong, I like them both. but if it came down to it, I'd take Connolly.

I think we take Roy for granted. He's got a better game overall than Connelly. scores more points, and makes others better around him. Whether fans want to believe it or not, As goes Roy, so goes the team. If there is a reason to be hopeful for next year, it's that Roy will have a better season than this year(and this year wasn't so bad) and lift the players around him into a better season as well.

[deluca67]

Not so in 08-09. He didn't score a point in his first four games back, then had 13 points in his next 10 games, seven in the 10 after that, 10 in the 10 after that and 10 in his last eight games.

In April with the season on the line he played 7 games with 1g and 7 assists. in 5 of the games he couldn't manage more than one shot. 3 of the 8 points came after the season was all but over. If you want to break down Connolly's game by game stats I am more than happy to. Like the 16 game stretch from Feb to March where he had 11 points a total inflated by a 4 point game (including his only two goals) against the Coyotes? The five game stretch in Jan where he was a minus 5 with 1 assist?

[wjag]

I think we take Roy for granted. He's got a better game overall than Connelly. scores more points, and makes others better around him. Whether fans want to believe it or not, As goes Roy, so goes the team. If there is a reason to be hopeful for next year, it's that Roy will have a better season than this year(and this year wasn't so bad) and lift the players around him into a better season as well.

Hands down, Roy is my favorite Sabre. Has been since he broke into the lineup. So my bias is upfront.

 

I believe he is a much better player than TC. However, he loses control of the puck a lot. It is somewhat maddening. He can be the best and the worst stick handler on the same play. If he fixes his turnovers and if he continues his steady improvement, he could be considered an elite player in this league.

[PASabreFan]

In the past 3 seasons, Connolly earned $91,000+ per game played and $102,000 per point scored.

 

This is not a small sample size.

 

By signing Connolly to the contract they did, his expected REAL salary when compared to games played will be $11,234,000.

 

That is a disgusting risk taken.

 

You wanna work out those numbers for Pat LaFontaine, in 2009 dollars?

[PASabreFan]

In April with the season on the line he played 7 games with 1g and 7 assists. in 5 of the games he couldn't manage more than one shot. 3 of the 8 points came after the season was all but over. If you want to break down Connolly's game by game stats I am more than happy to. Like the 16 game stretch from Feb to March where he had 11 points a total inflated by a 4 point game (including his only two goals) against the Coyotes? The five game stretch in Jan where he was a minus 5 with 1 assist?

 

So, with the season on the line, Connolly was better than a point a game player?

 

Alexander Ovechkin went nine straight games without scoring a goal in 08-09. Bum.

 

Who cares about shots?

 

Damn four-point games! They'll get you every time.

[deluca67]

So, with the season on the line, Connolly was better than a point a game player?

 

Alexander Ovechkin went nine straight games without scoring a goal in 08-09. Bum.

 

Who cares about shots?

 

Damn four-point games! They'll get you every time.

How silly to think shots would be important to a offensive player.

 

I was starting to type something about OV. I realized it was overkill to compare the greatest player in the game today to the greatest 18 goal scorer in NHL history.

[spndnchz]

Not so in 08-09. He didn't score a point in his first four games back, then had 13 points in his next 10 games, seven in the 10 after that, 10 in the 10 after that and 10 in his last eight games.

Sometimes I come here just to see Luca get bitchslapped. :thumbsup:

[carpandean]

I have no doubt that Timmy is a good player when healthy. However, until we can stop qualifying his performance with statements about health, I cannot accept any comparison to Roy. Timmy did not have a better season than Roy. He sat in the press box for 34 games, leaving a huge hole at center in his absence. He may have been marginally better than Roy down the stretch this year (nobody was better down the stretch last year, 2007-08, than Roy and his performance down that stretch was better than Timmy's down the stretch this year), but not nearly enough to makeup for his absence for basically the whole first half of the season.

 

I truly and wholeheartedly hope that both stay healthy this season, so we can see a real comparison. In fact, in terms of relative importance, "who is better?" is so far down from "can they both stay healthy?" I'm sure that everyone here, including Deluca, would be happily eat crow if Timmy puts up 100 points in a full 82 game season, because it would be great for the team.

[nfreeman]

I have no doubt that Timmy is a good player when healthy. However, until we can stop qualifying his performance with statements about health, I cannot accept any comparison to Roy. Timmy did not have a better season than Roy. He sat in the press box for 34 games, leaving a huge hole at center in his absence. He may have been marginally better than Roy down the stretch this year (nobody was better down the stretch last year, 2007-08, than Roy and his performance down that stretch was better than Timmy's down the stretch this year), but not nearly enough to makeup for his absence for basically the whole first half of the season.

 

I truly and wholeheartedly hope that both stay healthy this season, so we can see a real comparison. In fact, in terms of relative importance, "who is better?" is so far down from "can they both stay healthy?" I'm sure that everyone here, including Deluca, would be happily eat crow if Timmy puts up 100 points in a full 82 game season, because it would be great for the team.

 

As much as I'd like to beat the "who is better" horse for 40 or 50 more posts, you've raised a much more important issue: does "last year" mean 2007-08, or 2008-09? You seem to be taking the position that it means 2007-08. I don't agree at all. I think "last year" means "most recently concluded season" and will continue to utilize it as such until you come up with a compelling argument to the contrary.

[spndnchz]

As much as I'd like to beat the "who is better" horse for 40 or 50 more posts, you've raised a much more important issue: does "last year" mean 2007-08, or 2008-09? You seem to be taking the position that it means 2007-08. I don't agree at all. I think "last year" means "most recently concluded season" and will continue to utilize it as such until you come up with a compelling argument to the contrary.

Depends on the date, I'd say when training camp opens it's officially "this year"

 

So,

08-09 this year

07-08 last year

09-10 next year

 

until Camp opens and then

10-11 next year

09-10 this year

08-09 last year

07-08 distant memory

 

We should open at least four threads for this one. Luca can argue that if it weren't for the front office we could have had five.

[carpandean]

As much as I'd like to beat the "who is better" horse for 40 or 50 more posts, you've raised a much more important issue: does "last year" mean 2007-08, or 2008-09? You seem to be taking the position that it means 2007-08. I don't agree at all. I think "last year" means "most recently concluded season" and will continue to utilize it as such until you come up with a compelling argument to the contrary.

:D

 

You're probably right. I was a little inconsistent and "this year" should be 2009-10, "last year" should be 2008-09 and "two years ago" should be 2007-08.

 

So ...

I have no doubt that Timmy is a good player when healthy. However, until we can stop qualifying his performance with statements about health, I cannot accept any comparison to Roy. Timmy did not have a better season than Roy last year. He sat in the press box for 34 games, leaving a huge hole at center in his absence. He may have been marginally better than Roy down the stretch last year year (nobody was better down the stretch two years ago, 2007-08, than Roy and his performance down that stretch was better than Timmy's down the stretch last year year), but not nearly enough to makeup for his absence for basically the whole first half of the season.

[spndnchz]

:D

 

You're probably right. I was a little inconsistent and "this year" should be 2009-10, "last year" should be 2008-09 and "two years ago" should be 2007-08.

 

So ...

No No NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

You conformer! Your name is now redbud itcher.

[carpandean]

Depends on the date, I'd say when training camp opens it's officially "this year"

I'd say that a season ends when the team is eliminated from the playoffs. I suppose, to avoid confusion between different teams' fans, you could use the awarding of the SC as the official end of the season. The offseason is about starting the process of building for the new season.

[spndnchz]

I'd say that a season ends when the team is eliminated from the playoffs. I suppose, to avoid confusion between different teams' fans, you could use the awarding of the SC as the official end of the season. The offseason is about starting the process of building for the new season.

But you can't build or change for the new until July 1, technically. Bettman must've ruled on this sometime, somewhere. He needs to make the sport easier to follow for Nascar type fans. I blame him.

[carpandean]

No No NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

You conformer! Your name is now redbud itcher.

Since I used "this season" to describe the upcoming season, 2009-10, in the second paragraph of my original post, it's not conforming; it's simply becoming consistent.

[carpandean]

But you can't build or change for the new until July 1, technically.

Not true. What about trades during the draft?

[spndnchz]

Since I used "this season" to describe the upcoming season, 2009-10, in the second paragraph of my original post, it's not conforming; it's simply becoming consistent.

Season, meaning, upcoming, ref. P2 of OP, Ncon, when original ref 08 as last?

 

Nah, can't be.

[spndnchz]

Not true. What about trades during the draft?

So the season "new" or season "this" starts at the draft? But what if on some teams those players never see the ice for the big club at "new" or "this" season? Is it still a season?

 

This could nullify past season for many clubs.

[carpandean]

So the season "new" or season "this" starts at the draft? But what if on some teams those players never see the ice for the big club at "new" or "this" season? Is it still a season?

 

This could nullify past season for many clubs.

This is starting to hurt my head. :beer:

 

I would say that it doesn't matter what teams actually do (you ref to the new players on some teams never making it), but what is important is what they are allowed to do. Any team can (i.e., are able/allowed to) trade a roster player on draft day. They can make a change that will affect the upcoming seasons' roster, but not the previous seasons'. As such, one could argue that the changeover is at least as soon as the draft, possibly sooner (what is the first day after the preceding trade deadline that trades can be made?)

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

You wanna work out those numbers for Pat LaFontaine, in 2009 dollars?

 

You mean the Pat LaFontaine that was not kept in Buffalo by Larry Quinn and Darcy Regier because they felt "It wouldn't be prudent to risk the health of a player coming off multiple head injuries and our organization wouldn't want to be adding to the risk by having him suit up."????

 

The SAME management said that, yet they gave Connolly not only one disgusting extension at an inflated price after having multiple head injuries.....but after showing that was a mistake, they resign him to a 50% raise after playing 98 games over 3 full seasons.

 

LaFontaine never had an injury history when coming to Buffalo. He was also 10x the player and person that Connolly is. He played 268 games over 5+ seasons. He scored 385 points. He averaged $3 million a year in Buffalo, or $4.5 million in 2009 dollars (how ironic!). Inflation calculator

 

 

 

Connolly played 98 games the past 3 seasons ant totaled 88 points.

 

He has played 323 games as a Sabre and has 213 points.

 

A better comparison for Connolly as a player would be Christain Ruuttu.

[deluca67]

You mean the Pat LaFontaine that was not kept in Buffalo by Larry Quinn and Darcy Regier because they felt "It wouldn't be prudent to risk the health of a player coming off multiple head injuries and our organization wouldn't want to be adding to the risk by having him suit up."????

 

The SAME management said that, yet they gave Connolly not only one disgusting extension at an inflated price after having multiple head injuries.....but after showing that was a mistake, they resign him to a 50% raise after playing 98 games over 3 full seasons.

 

LaFontaine never had an injury history when coming to Buffalo. He was also 10x the player and person that Connolly is. He played 268 games over 5+ seasons. He scored 385 points. He averaged $3 million a year in Buffalo, or $4.5 million in 2009 dollars (how ironic!). Inflation calculator

Connolly played 98 games the past 3 seasons ant totaled 88 points.

 

He has played 323 games as a Sabre and has 213 points.

 

A better comparison for Connolly as a player would be Christain Ruuttu.

You don't get it. It's not about actual points. It's about all the points Connolly would have had if healthy. :wallbash:

 

The quote you have to start your post is very telling. This front office inherited LaFontaine so they felt obligation to keep him. Because Connolly was part of one the worse trades this front office has made they feel a certain obligation to keep Connolly in order to save face on that deal. There is no other way to explain why they keep wasting money on this guy.

[deluca67]

Sometimes I come here just to see Luca get bitchslapped. :thumbsup:

Learning to live with disappointment builds character. :thumbsup:

[spndnchz]

Learning to live with disappointment builds character. :thumbsup:

And you're definitely some kind of character. I guess U can take that either way. At least that's what shortbus rider said.

[deluca67]

I have no doubt that Timmy is a good player when healthy. However, until we can stop qualifying his performance with statements about health, I cannot accept any comparison to Roy. Timmy did not have a better season than Roy. He sat in the press box for 34 games, leaving a huge hole at center in his absence. He may have been marginally better than Roy down the stretch this year (nobody was better down the stretch last year, 2007-08, than Roy and his performance down that stretch was better than Timmy's down the stretch this year), but not nearly enough to makeup for his absence for basically the whole first half of the season.

 

I truly and wholeheartedly hope that both stay healthy this season, so we can see a real comparison. In fact, in terms of relative importance, "who is better?" is so far down from "can they both stay healthy?" I'm sure that everyone here, including Deluca, would be happily eat crow if Timmy puts up 100 points in a full 82 game season, because it would be great for the team.

Connolly is a "good" player when healthy. Inconsistent but still good none the less. Somewhere along the way, during one of his many stints on the DL, the Legend of Timmy Connolly has grown from a good offensive player who struggles to stay in the lineup to a legendary #1 center that can score 30 goals and 100 points in a season. Very similar to Briere when posters would claim Briere as a 100 point a year producer despite never hitting the mark. It would be great if Connolly could score 100 points. The could surely use that type of production. It is foolish for this franchise to rely on that production for a third straight year. I said this going into last year and it is even truer going into this season. Connolly's value is as a bonus. You build this team as if Connolly will not be healthy and if he is great. Your team is much better. To not have a #1 center other than Connolly by the start of the season is playoff suicide.