shrader Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I don't think Darcy is done yet, and this is a very nice start. From reading articles on this signing, it seems like he was a priority for the Sabres. Regier and Ruff called him shortly after noon. It seems like they had their sights on him and wanted him, and got it. He's not plan B or plan C. They didn't fail to sign 2-3 other dudes because they were cheap and then settled on Montador. The Sabres wanted him from the get go. I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but you had to read articles to realize that he was a priority? Looking at the clock/calendar should have been enough for that. He was one of the first players to be signed today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted July 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, but you had to read articles to realize that he was a priority? Looking at the clock/calendar should have been enough for that. He was one of the first players to be signed today. Yeah. He was signed around 2:30. Who knows what kind of trades they tried to make or if they tried to sign Jay McKee at a discount price? Who knows if Kevin Allen was right and Sabres truly wanted either Gionta or Cole.... but realized they were out of their price range so they moved on. Reading some quotes made me realize, Montador was the first dude they called today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Yeah. He was signed around 2:30. Who knows what kind of trades they tried to make or if they tried to sign Jay McKee at a discount price? Who knows if Kevin Allen was right and Sabres truly wanted either Gionta or Cole.... but realized they were out of their price range so they moved on. Reading some quotes made me realize, Montador was the first dude they called today. And looking at their methods post lockout, I'd say it's very safe to say that they went to Montador first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 And looking at their methods post lockout, I'd say it's very safe to say that they went to Montador first. looking at the what the Canadian teams did yesterday, and the Rangers... and then for Buffalo to pick up Montador... just makes me feel like somebody's poor cousin. I don't know how we're going to compete. You don't bring a popgun to a gunfight, Darcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 And looking at their methods post lockout, I'd say it's very safe to say that they went to Montador first. Personally I feel there were cheaper solutions out there for a 5/6 d man. I am dissapointed once again. I wasn't looking for Jay Bouwmeester. DR needs to infuse some talent ASAP. Not sure where he will find it. He also needs a vetern leader. I will probably get flamed for this but Mark Recchi is out there he had 60 points last year as well. He could be had on the cheap for a 1 yr contract and would provide some leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gg1 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Just wondering about some of the wishlists. If free agency is truly the open market where each player's worth is figured on the spot, in a competitive bid, why are there views that teams over and underpay right now? Yes, players can underperform the contract. But, the player's current worth is determined on the spot and when you see the market valuing Jaro Spacek at $11.5 mil over three years, that's the base you should be looking at. Prices will always be high on first day of FA. You may get better value by waiting out the initial surge, but then there should be no complaints that the team is standing pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 looking at the what the Canadian teams did yesterday, and the Rangers... and then for Buffalo to pick up Montador...just makes me feel like somebody's poor cousin. I don't know how we're going to compete. You don't bring a popgun to a gunfight, Darcy. So now they're judged against the actions of only 7 teams? What about the other 22? The key thing here though is that we're evaluating and offseason after 1 days. That's absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Just wondering about some of the wishlists. If free agency is truly the open market where each player's worth is figured on the spot, in a competitive bid, why are there views that teams over and underpay right now? Yes, players can underperform the contract. But, the player's current worth is determined on the spot and when you see the market valuing Jaro Spacek at $11.5 mil over three years, that's the base you should be looking at. Prices will always be high on first day of FA. You may get better value by waiting out the initial surge, but then there should be no complaints that the team is standing pat. Nice point. The money supply is finite.....New York Rangers have really taken themselves out of the high and middle market already by signing Gaborik....they have 11 players to sign with about 15 million. And they better pray Callahan, Higgins and Zherdev don't file for arbitration. I'm not sure if Philly has enough money to pay its last two players the league min. Detroit and Vancouver are done....... San Jose is locked out. Ottawa with Healtly is locked. Phoenix may actually end up okay because a lot of upper middle talent won't have anywhere else to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Nice point. The money supply is finite.....New York Rangers have really taken themselves out of the high and middle market already by signing Gaborik....they have 11 players to sign with about 15 million. And they better pray Callahan, Higgins and Zherdev don't file for arbitration. I'm not sure if Philly has enough money to pay its last two players the league min. Detroit and Vancouver are done....... San Jose is locked out. Ottawa with Healtly is locked. Phoenix may actually end up okay because a lot of upper middle talent won't have anywhere else to play. A lot of people were throwing LA around as a team that would finally be players in the market for the big name players. If they were negotiating, they obviously lost out, but I could see them feasting on this mid-range talent with that nearly non-existant payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Nice point. The money supply is finite.....New York Rangers have really taken themselves out of the high and middle market already by signing Gaborik....they have 11 players to sign with about 15 million. And they better pray Callahan, Higgins and Zherdev don't file for arbitration. I'm not sure if Philly has enough money to pay its last two players the league min. Detroit and Vancouver are done....... San Jose is locked out. Ottawa with Healtly is locked. Phoenix may actually end up okay because a lot of upper middle talent won't have anywhere else to play. Someone should offer sheet Dubinsky! Screw Slats and the Rags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Someone should offer sheet Dubinsky! Screw Slats and the Rags. A 2.5 x 3 year offer to Dubinsky would leave NY with Drury as the only true center. :lol: Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it Do it. Do it Do it. Do it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 sorry if this was covered north of this post, but i found it strange that darcy appeared to talk in his own presser about spacek and montador as a sort of 1-out-1-in deal -- i was fine with spacek being allowed to walk because the market was prepared to pay him more and longer than we can/should -- and i like this signing of montador as a tough 4/5 d-man -- but the suggestion that montador is here to fill in for spacek, that i didn't like so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 A 2.5 x 3 year offer to Dubinsky would leave NY with Drury as the only true center. :lol: Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it Do it. Do it Do it. Do it :D That would be outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 That would be outstanding. Its about time DR takes of his glasses and starts throwing some punches. Last I checked wins are what counts not friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 looking at the what the Canadian teams did yesterday, and the Rangers... and then for Buffalo to pick up Montador...just makes me feel like somebody's poor cousin. I don't know how we're going to compete. You don't bring a popgun to a gunfight, Darcy. You can't compare what the Sabres could do on Day 1 of free agency to what a team like Montreal did ... Montreal HAD to go crazy because they had very few players under contract. They had holes to fill. Even now with everything they did they still have only 15 guys under contract and their payroll is around $41 million. The Sabres have players we don't like that we consider holes (Hecht, Tallinder) but they are taking up $6 million+ of cap space and their payroll is $47 million with regulars like Stafford, Kaleta and Sekera still to sign. If you want to bitch that they painted themselves into a corner with some bad deals, fine, but given where they stood, we knew they didn't have the room to be going after big names like Montreal. Besides, When was the last time a team in any sport won anything buying free agents? Even when the Yankees "bought" titles they were paying to keep their own guys. Montreal isn't doing anything the Rangers haven't done the lat couple years and they have not gotten any better. So now they're judged against the actions of only 7 teams? What about the other 22? The key thing here though is that we're evaluating and offseason after 1 days. That's absurd. I agree. sorry if this was covered north of this post, but i found it strange that darcy appeared to talk in his own presser about spacek and montador as a sort of 1-out-1-in deal -- i was fine with spacek being allowed to walk because the market was prepared to pay him more and longer than we can/should -- and i like this signing of montador as a tough 4/5 d-man -- but the suggestion that montador is here to fill in for spacek, that i didn't like so much. Like Shrader said, I don't think we can make any final judgements until the offseason is over and we see if they make any trades. Perhaps "trading" Spacek for Montador isn't something we would do in a vacum, it does address a toughness need and he comes cheaper. If that allows them to trade Tallinder and maybe add a veteran forward with some size ... Spacek and Tallinder for Montador and XXXXX? I don't know, it might not look so bad that way. Whatever the case, they have to take their medicine for some guys not playing up their contracts and taking up cap space. They have to look for Sekera and Butler to develop further and pick up some offensive slack and also have the forwards start playing up to their contracts ... other than Roy, are any of the "core" guys really playing up to their deals? And that's only because his deal is reasonable, he's not overachieving or anything. Vanek did last year most of the time until he got hurt I guess ... point is, the way they are constructed, there was no way they could do much to fix on on the first day of free agency. Even if Regier had been fired a new GM would have been hard pressed to come in and overhaul things in one day like Montreal did. I was pleasantly surprised they got Montador, but I am no more or less frustrated than I was two days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 That would be outstanding. I really love his Dubinsky's game- a hard charger who really makes his teammates better. Good face-offs, tough, any line....just throw him out there.....who wouldn't love this kid. Of course losing him would probably get Sather fired.....which would be the downside :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Its about time DR takes of his glasses and starts throwing some punches. Last I checked wins are what counts not friends. I can't speak to wins but you ought too know about not counting friends, got any ? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gg1 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Of course losing him would probably get Sather fired.....which would be the downside :beer: No worries, Jimmy will replace him with someone of equal competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I can't speak to wins but you ought too know about not counting friends, got any ? ;) Just one but you can't really count your mom. Or as I like to call her my landlord, upstairs neighbor. :ph34r: jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Just one but you can't really count your mom. Or as I like to call her my landlord, upstairs neighbor. :ph34r: jk. Nice, only a blogger a Mother could love, so if someone did like you that makes them a Mother ....... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedesessed Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 looking at the what the Canadian teams did yesterday, and the Rangers... and then for Buffalo to pick up Montador...just makes me feel like somebody's poor cousin. I don't know how we're going to compete. You don't bring a popgun to a gunfight, Darcy. You do realize that Montreal had tons of cap room after losing quite a few players themselves? Gionta for 5 million a season? Laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Personally I feel there were cheaper solutions out there for a 5/6 d man. I am dissapointed once again. I wasn't looking for Jay Bouwmeester. DR needs to infuse some talent ASAP. Not sure where he will find it. He also needs a vetern leader. I will probably get flamed for this but Mark Recchi is out there he had 60 points last year as well. He could be had on the cheap for a 1 yr contract and would provide some leadership. The Sabres solutions are in the farm..They arent going off their plans..Butler Sekera Weber and Myers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 You can't compare what the Sabres could do on Day 1 of free agency to what a team like Montreal did ... Montreal HAD to go crazy because they had very few players under contract. They had holes to fill. Even now with everything they did they still have only 15 guys under contract and their payroll is around $41 million. The Sabres have players we don't like that we consider holes (Hecht, Tallinder) but they are taking up $6 million+ of cap space and their payroll is $47 million with regulars like Stafford, Kaleta and Sekera still to sign. If you want to bitch that they painted themselves into a corner with some bad deals, fine, but given where they stood, we knew they didn't have the room to be going after big names like Montreal. Besides, When was the last time a team in any sport won anything buying free agents? Even when the Yankees "bought" titles they were paying to keep their own guys. Montreal isn't doing anything the Rangers haven't done the lat couple years and they have not gotten any better. I agree. Like Shrader said, I don't think we can make any final judgements until the offseason is over and we see if they make any trades. Perhaps "trading" Spacek for Montador isn't something we would do in a vacum, it does address a toughness need and he comes cheaper. If that allows them to trade Tallinder and maybe add a veteran forward with some size ... Spacek and Tallinder for Montador and XXXXX? I don't know, it might not look so bad that way. Whatever the case, they have to take their medicine for some guys not playing up their contracts and taking up cap space. They have to look for Sekera and Butler to develop further and pick up some offensive slack and also have the forwards start playing up to their contracts ... other than Roy, are any of the "core" guys really playing up to their deals? And that's only because his deal is reasonable, he's not overachieving or anything. Vanek did last year most of the time until he got hurt I guess ... point is, the way they are constructed, there was no way they could do much to fix on on the first day of free agency. Even if Regier had been fired a new GM would have been hard pressed to come in and overhaul things in one day like Montreal did. I was pleasantly surprised they got Montador, but I am no more or less frustrated than I was two days ago. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 You can't compare what the Sabres could do on Day 1 of free agency to what a team like Montreal did ... Montreal HAD to go crazy because they had very few players under contract. They had holes to fill. Even now with everything they did they still have only 15 guys under contract and their payroll is around $41 million. The Sabres have players we don't like that we consider holes (Hecht, Tallinder) but they are taking up $6 million+ of cap space and their payroll is $47 million with regulars like Stafford, Kaleta and Sekera still to sign. If you want to bitch that they painted themselves into a corner with some bad deals, fine, but given where they stood, we knew they didn't have the room to be going after big names like Montreal. Besides, When was the last time a team in any sport won anything buying free agents? Even when the Yankees "bought" titles they were paying to keep their own guys. Montreal isn't doing anything the Rangers haven't done the lat couple years and they have not gotten any better. I agree. Like Shrader said, I don't think we can make any final judgements until the offseason is over and we see if they make any trades. Perhaps "trading" Spacek for Montador isn't something we would do in a vacum, it does address a toughness need and he comes cheaper. If that allows them to trade Tallinder and maybe add a veteran forward with some size ... Spacek and Tallinder for Montador and XXXXX? I don't know, it might not look so bad that way. Whatever the case, they have to take their medicine for some guys not playing up their contracts and taking up cap space. They have to look for Sekera and Butler to develop further and pick up some offensive slack and also have the forwards start playing up to their contracts ... other than Roy, are any of the "core" guys really playing up to their deals? And that's only because his deal is reasonable, he's not overachieving or anything. Vanek did last year most of the time until he got hurt I guess ... point is, the way they are constructed, there was no way they could do much to fix on on the first day of free agency. Even if Regier had been fired a new GM would have been hard pressed to come in and overhaul things in one day like Montreal did. I was pleasantly surprised they got Montador, but I am no more or less frustrated than I was two days ago. Your post really goes to the discussion I was having in another thread in comparing that Connolly contract to that of Scott Gomez. Free agency shows that the Sabres are financially not a part of the NHL anymore. While other teams continue to spend and rebuild they do so without the fear of the ramifications or financial implications because there are simply none to be found. Though the contracts of Connolly, Tallinder and Hecht maybe half the value of that of a Gomez, Drury or Briere they are devastating to the Sabres financial landscape while the larger contracts have little or no effect on the larger markets ability to do business. Teams like Montreal, New York and Philly can simple trade those large contracts to another team, buyout the contract or simple send the player to the minors and pay the salary to get the amount off of the cap. To a couple of your other points: Would a new GM be able to clean up this mess in one day like Montreal did? No, I would like to believe he would have at least recognized it's need to be done and start the process. We should wait until the end of the off-season? The NHL's or the Sabres. I fear, as many do, that the Sabres off-season is pretty much complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Your post really goes to the discussion I was having in another thread in comparing that Connolly contract to that of Scott Gomez. Free agency shows that the Sabres are financially not a part of the NHL anymore. While other teams continue to spend and rebuild they do so without the fear of the ramifications or financial implications because there are simply none to be found. Though the contracts of Connolly, Tallinder and Hecht maybe half the value of that of a Gomez, Drury or Briere they are devastating to the Sabres financial landscape while the larger contracts have little or no effect on the larger markets ability to do business. Teams like Montreal, New York and Philly can simple trade those large contracts to another team, buyout the contract or simple send the player to the minors and pay the salary to get the amount off of the cap. Well I can't argue with that. It has always been a myth that the salary cap leveled the playing field, we just didn't see the effects in the first couple years because no one was going to buy their way out of a bad deal that soon. But it will happen more and more as guys get older ... it will be another tool other teams can use that the Sabres (and several other lower-revenue teams) can't. That's frustrating, but it's really just another reason NOT to overspend on big names. The problem isn't that they aren't players in the open market so much as they made mistakes with their own players. The bad choices like Hecht/Max/Connolly over Drury/Briere/Dumont/Grier ... not saying they should have had a crystal ball and kept all four over the other three but if they still had even two of those four guys instead of the other three, they would still be a playoff team. They'd be a little older but nothing outrageous ... Everyone says DR falls in love with players, but really he just made bad choices. Drury/Briere/Dumont/Grier were all brought in by him, they were feathers in his cap, he could have "fallen in love" with them too. Whatever the case, you are right, they can't afford to make the mistakes other teams do ... they try to avoid these mistakes by not getting involved with UFAs, but they still make them with the players they should know best. Would a new GM be able to clean up this mess in one day like Montreal did? No, I would like to believe he would have at least recognized it's need to be done and start the process. Maybe, but my point was in response to the Montreal comparison. The situations are just too different. We should wait until the end of the off-season? The NHL's or the Sabres. I fear, as many do, that the Sabres off-season is pretty much complete. Believe me, i fear it, too. But given that the only way to fix it is for them to trade away some bad contracts, I think it is unrealistic to think that can be done on July 1. Like I said, I am no more or less frustrated than I was on June 30 ... but I will be on Aug. 30, one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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