nucci Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I hear you about the agent...but the whole deal was complicated. My biggest point coming out of the whole ordeal was that Bernier was going to be making this type of money, or else it didn't make sense for Vancouver to trade for him. Also.....Regier talked to Davidson of St Louis the day Vancouver put their sheet down on the Blues player and Darcy was trying to get Davidson to sit on his match for 7 days so Vancouver couldn't use the tag. Darcy knew Vancouver was interested. The agent just facilitated a deal by letting Buffalo know Vancouver would drop a sheet, giving Buffalo a chance to trade for pretty much the same thing without the PR mess. NOW...ST Louis could have dropped this by surprise, but it is also possible now that Bernier's agent actually lost his own client some leverage by taking a Vancouver offer sheet out of the mix, and made ammends to Bernier by getting him the one year deal. Vancouver could have sat on the trade and said $6 million for 3 years...but Bernier would rather prove himself and have more upfront security. I think Sabre fans have forgotten what a true power forward does for a team. You can't teach size+skill combo that Bernier has. He may never be a 40 goal scorer, but the kid will be a 300 goal scorer for his career. I also said that about Pyatt. I trust those two to get to 300 before Pominville does. I'll take that bet . Bernier needs to average about 26 goals for the next 10 years and Pyatt needs 220 more goals to reach 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think Sabre fans have forgotten what a true power forward does for a team. You can't teach size+skill combo that Bernier has. He may never be a 40 goal scorer, but the kid will be a 300 goal scorer for his career. I also said that about Pyatt. I trust those two to get to 300 before Pominville does. I'll take that bet . Bernier needs to average about 26 goals for the next 10 years and Pyatt needs 220 more goals to reach 300. I'm in on the bet. Miller needs a new pair of shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Where's Webster in all this???!!!!!! I'm going to need some ideas what to do with the bet money. It all comes down to Paille's contract. We're at $4.8 with Gaustad and Bernier signed, the bet was $5 mil and $1 for each $10,000 over or under. How much does a Bernier Canucks jersey cost? :ph34r: Just got home. Oh well, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. Pun intended. There's now way Bernier gets anywhere near that deal if St Louis isn't jerking the Canucks chain. If Vancouver was prepared to pay that much, than Bernier should fire his agent becaus you know Vancouver wanted at least a two year deal, probably similiar to Stajan's. Like some have already stated, the offer of one year was a joke and let's not pat Darcy on the back for a three in 2010, if I'm Buffalo, I'd rather have a two next year especially since I gave up a two to get Rivet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 It made perfect sense for Vancouver to trade for him. If they want him, the only way they guarantee getting him, short of offering a ridiculous contract, is by trading for him. And while creative, your scenario just doesn't work out. The St. Louis offer was a joke. 1 year? That is not the kind of contract that is going to lure away any RFA. Backes signed for 3, Vanek for 7, Penner for 5, and Kesler for 4. One year was not going to get it done. The only way you'll ever lure away a RFA is by burdening the team with a long term financial commitment. And looking back at the deal, I don't think the Backes offer was all that serious either.edit: After looking again, Vancouver gave Backes a 3 year, $2.5 million per offer sheet. The amount to Bernier is no coincidence. You can thank dumb luck for winning your bet with TW. HAHA! I know....everything I say, I just luck into being right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Just got home. Oh well, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. Pun intended. There's now way Bernier gets anywhere near that deal if St Louis isn't jerking the Canucks chain. If Vancouver was prepared to pay that much, than Bernier should fire his agent becaus you know Vancouver wanted at least a two year deal, probably similiar to Stajan's. Like some have already stated, the offer of one year was a joke and let's not pat Darcy on the back for a three in 2010, if I'm Buffalo, I'd rather have a two next year especially since I gave up a two to get Rivet. At least you're being a good sport! There was somethin fishy with that whole thing. I don't know from where, or from all parties, but knowing Darcy wasn't going to resign Bernier, just go and sign him to the offer sheet. If Buffalo matches, offer them a 2nd and a 3rd. Boom...same result. Someone was doing somebody a favor here. It all washes in the end. I think people are starting to lose sight of how many teams work. If you really want the asset, you pay for it. In the big picture, even if the team overpaid 500K for Bernier...he was not on that team and could be had by offering a little extra money, then handing over a pick. This isn't like the stock market where you value invest. You can sell a stock the next day if you think you made a mistake. If you sign Spacek, Connolly and Afinogenov and make a mistake....you end up stuck with them. All the while you had confirmed quality players that walk and all you had to do was overpay. The sad reality is...you can pay $55 million and make sure you have a playoff team (except for Toronto and NYR who don't really care because they make tons of money no matter what). Or...you can underpay for $45 million and HOPE you have a playoff team. For an extra 20%...you're going to get the goods. By the way, did anyone see Golisano hand over $5 million to a Democratic PAC today? Real Nice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 HAHA! I know....everything I say, I just luck into being right. But really, that tin foil hat can't be all that comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 But really, that tin foil hat can't be all that comfortable. But the foil has a Sabres logo on it.....and I paid $25 for it! Really....I know there are people that just want to go along for the ride and enjoy hockey, but there are some smart cookies on this board that spew Corporate BS. This organization has had their own best interests in mind from day 1. I am all for balance. When somone shows themselves to be trustworthy. By the way....how have I been the negative one when this whole time I have said Goose, Bernier and Paille deserve much more than the crew here thought they were going to get? Really? I'm banging the drumb saying these Sabres are good, yet I'm once again cast as a douchebag. This team is so pathetic, that if you use a little bit of logic, you can predict what will happen. I gave them credit for getting Rivet. Two seasons too late, but at least they got him. I also said the same thing about Bernier, so what we will probably see is that when the Sabres are 6 points out of a playoff spot at the deadline this year, they will trade Rivet to a team that gives a crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 The tinfoil hat comment was directed at your theory about how the whole Bernier thing went down. That was a conspiracy theory of hollywood levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Just got home. Oh well, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. Pun intended. There's now way Bernier gets anywhere near that deal if St Louis isn't jerking the Canucks chain. If Vancouver was prepared to pay that much, than Bernier should fire his agent becaus you know Vancouver wanted at least a two year deal, probably similiar to Stajan's. Like some have already stated, the offer of one year was a joke and let's not pat Darcy on the back for a three in 2010, if I'm Buffalo, I'd rather have a two next year especially since I gave up a two to get Rivet. meh, you are splitting hairs here TW. BTW NFW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 But the foil has a Sabres logo on it.....and I paid $25 for it! This is an automated message... Thank you for your $25 donation to the Democratic PAC. We appreciate your support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico7 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Yikes. Me, too. Seems we dodged a bullet, and here I was all ticked off. Bernier isn't worth $2.5 million. But I'm miffed about a couple of things. Why would the Blues, and Bernier, only go for one year? It doesn't make sense. The only think I can think of, and I know it's not the way to run a team, but it smells like a revenge move for Backes. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 This is an automated message... Thank you for your $25 donation to the Democratic PAC. We appreciate your support! Ha! :thumbsup: Let's see...an extra $2 million to Briere, Drury and Campbell this year to keep them around....or take that money to get Baby Joe Mesi elected to state Senate. Seems like an easy choice to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think Sabre fans have forgotten what a true power forward does for a team. You can't teach size+skill combo that Bernier has. He may never be a 40 goal scorer, but the kid will be a 300 goal scorer for his career. I also said that about Pyatt. I trust those two to get to 300 before Pominville does. :lol: You mean Pyatt and Bernier combined, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 :lol: You mean Pyatt and Bernier combined, right? No....they will each score 300 goals in this league. Bernier might get 400. Then again, by 2012 the NHL may go to indoor soccer scoring where anything north of the faceoff circle is worth 2 points, so those numbers might get scewed. Here's an example of a guy that everyone likes ripping on. Similar to Pyatt and I think Bernier has a bit more talent. He has a decent chance at 300. Would you give a 2nd and 3rd for him? I wouldn't. 86 to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 No....they will each score 300 goals in this league. Bernier might get 400. Then again, by 2012 the NHL may go to indoor soccer scoring where anything north of the faceoff circle is worth 2 points, so those numbers might get scewed. Here's an example of a guy that everyone likes ripping on. Similar to Pyatt and I think Bernier has a bit more talent. He has a decent chance at 300. Would you give a 2nd and 3rd for him? I wouldn't. 86 to go Well, if Bernier has ten 25 goal seasons starting now. or twelve 21 goal seasons starting now he's right on pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think Sabre fans have forgotten what a true power forward does for a team. You can't teach size+skill combo that Bernier has. He may never be a 40 goal scorer, but the kid will be a 300 goal scorer for his career. I also said that about Pyatt. I trust those two to get to 300 before Pominville does. They better turn things around soon, then. Pyatt has been short of Pominville by at least 11 goals in each of the three post-lockout seasons. At that pace, they'll be roughly equal for career goals after this season. Bernier's actually dropped more, but he hasn't played as many games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 They better turn things around soon, then. Pyatt has been short of Pominville by at least 11 goals in each of the three post-lockout seasons. At that pace, they'll be roughly equal for career goals after this season. Bernier's actually dropped more, but he hasn't played as many games. Pyatt will have a harder time than Bernier. I still feel that Pominville will not take the beating over the course of time as well. He has played better than I figured he could, so I give him credit. Longevity is the key. I really liked what Bernier brought to the table. He has pure instinct on the ice. Just let the kid play ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 At least you're being a good sport! There was somethin fishy with that whole thing. I don't know from where, or from all parties, but knowing Darcy wasn't going to resign Bernier, just go and sign him to the offer sheet. If Buffalo matches, offer them a 2nd and a 3rd. Boom...same result. Someone was doing somebody a favor here. It all washes in the end. I think people are starting to lose sight of how many teams work. If you really want the asset, you pay for it. In the big picture, even if the team overpaid 500K for Bernier...he was not on that team and could be had by offering a little extra money, then handing over a pick. This isn't like the stock market where you value invest. You can sell a stock the next day if you think you made a mistake. If you sign Spacek, Connolly and Afinogenov and make a mistake....you end up stuck with them. All the while you had confirmed quality players that walk and all you had to do was overpay. The sad reality is...you can pay $55 million and make sure you have a playoff team (except for Toronto and NYR who don't really care because they make tons of money no matter what). Or...you can underpay for $45 million and HOPE you have a playoff team. For an extra 20%...you're going to get the goods. By the way, did anyone see Golisano hand over $5 million to a Democratic PAC today? Real Nice!! If there's any truth to that, then :thumbdown: :chris: :wallbash: :death: Had to get that out of my system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 If there's any truth to that, then :thumbdown: :chris: :wallbash: :death: Had to get that out of my system... Baby Joe Mesi...Can he play Defense for $5 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Baby Joe Mesi...Can he play Defense for $5 million? I've heard it said as a matter of observation from radio talk show hosts that there are Southern Democrats who are more conservative than Northern Republicans. Just saying... On the other hand, I remember Dale Volker being in the State Senate since I was a kid. My goodness, that guy is like NYS's version of Robert Byrd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 It's not specifically a democratic pac - Golisano is a republican and prior to that he was a Independence party member. It's a pac for better goverment and right now that means getting some democrats to replace the republicans. Maybe next election it goes the other way. I don't know how it works but I would guess Golisano gets better tax benefits by spending the money on the pac than on players. Back on the Bernier front - Darcy was obviously being reactive and did turn a bad situation into a very good result. But anyone saying that the situation didn't affect the Sabres is wrong - here is another case of an ex-Sabre player now making a lot more money than he would have in Buffalo. Another player priced out of the Sabres budget plan. It gets more difficult all the time to pay 2006 dollar values to players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 It's not specifically a democratic pac - Golisano is a republican and prior to that he was a Independence party member. It's a pac for better goverment and right now that means getting some democrats to replace the republicans. Maybe next election it goes the other way. I don't know how it works but I would guess Golisano gets better tax benefits by spending the money on the pac than on players. Back on the Bernier front - Darcy was obviously being reactive and did turn a bad situation into a very good result. But anyone saying that the situation didn't affect the Sabres is wrong - here is another case of an ex-Sabre player now making a lot more money than he would have in Buffalo. Another player priced out of the Sabres budget plan. It gets more difficult all the time to pay 2006 dollar values to players. Do you really think Bernier should make $2.5M per year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Do you really think Bernier should make $2.5M per year? Do I think he should or do I think the market thinks he should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Do I think he should or do I think the market thinks he should? To phrase it a different way, would he have gotten $2.5 million as a UFA or was this done just to screw Vancouver by St. Louis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 To phrase it a different way, would he have gotten $2.5 million as a UFA or was this done just to screw Vancouver by St. Louis? I think he was getting at least $2 million (not from the Sabres, of course.) Big, young, guy with some skill, high draft pick and the "potential" word still attached. Everything teams with money to spend look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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