Team toughness/Grit/Call it what you want

[inkman]

Personally, I think the team should be playing a tougher, grind it out style. That is playoff hockey. If these guys aren't equipped to play that fashion, get them the hell out of here.

[apuszczalowski]

Personally, I think the team should be playing a tougher, grind it out style. That is playoff hockey. If these guys aren't equipped to play that fashion, get them the hell out of here.

But wouldn't that mean that Darcy was wrong in the way he built the team? I think he is too stubborn to try and addapt and will continue to push what he thinksa is successful and hope the league adapts instead fo him adapting to what works in the league

[inkman]

But wouldn't that mean that Darcy was wrong in the way he built the team?

Just like he was pure genious for "building a team for the new NHL". <_< As I have stated in another thread, just for you Stenbar, the emperor has no clothes.

[carpandean]

Up front, they should be able to play tougher than they sometimes do. There have been a couple of games where they won the physical battles and, guess what, they won the games, too. On the blue line, they have a lot of work to do. Spacek is ok, Pratt is pretty good and Weber could be very good, but the rest are not physical enough. I don't believe that Lindy could coach Lydman, Tallinder, Kalinin or Paetsch to be physical (I don't know about Sekera yet, but I think he tends toward puck moving).

 

The team was built well for the New NHL, which is why they did so well. Then, the rules slipped and teams figured out how to shut down high speed teams. Time to adapt. The process has started, but will take some trades to trim some of the old fat in order to complete the transition. Maybe Lindy's recent comments were meant to be a hint to the FO about what they need to do.

[Chief Enabler]

Personally, I think the team should be playing a tougher, grind it out style. That is playoff hockey. If these guys aren't equipped to play that fashion, get them the hell out of here.

you hit the nail on the head in another thread. Vanek forced contract is the beginning of the end. I voted, have no freakin idea

[Bmwolf21]

I voted "Lindy is playing the cards he is dealt with, they are soft and he's using them to the best of their abilities" but in reality I could have made an argument for most of the choices - especially "I have no freaking idea."

[That Aud Smell]

I voted, have no freakin idea

 

Same here.

 

I still think that this team - after 1 or 2 tweaks - can be more than sufficiently "tough" to play sound playoff hockey and make some noise in the post-season.

 

Or maybe not. :unsure:

[LabattBlue]

Same here.

 

I still think that this team - after 1 or 2 tweaks - can be more than sufficiently "tough" to play sound playoff hockey and make some noise in the post-season.

 

Or maybe not. :unsure:

I'll say this much...If DR brings back the same team(see below) that we have now except for a backup goaltender, I think they will pretty much be in the same boat they are today...7th-8th-9th place in the conference.

 

Vanek, Roy, Stafford, Max, Kotalik, Connolly, Paille, Bernier, Pominville, Hecht, Mair, Kaleta, Ryan & Peters.

 

Tallinder, Spacek, Lydman, Paetsch, Teppo, Weber, Kalinin & Sekera

 

Miller & new backup

[Goodfella25]

Everyone knows they are a bunch of soft little lost puppies in their own zone. Or deer in the headlights, call it what you want. You couldn't coach players to be this soft, it's natural for most of them. That's why we are all so shocked to see a player like Kaleta, over the last few years we seem to have forgotten that there is hitting in this game.

 

But for forwards that is one thing, for defensemen it is completely something different. You can get away with a bunch of skilled softies on forward, but on defense, if the opposing team knows they aren't going to have to pay a price in the offensive zone, ESPECIALLY in front of the net, they are going to walk all over you and give you no respect. That is what has been happening to the Sabres all year, even with Campbell. We need some guys that are willing to seriously rough people up and block shots, do what's necessary---not a bunch of panicky scarred Lydmans out there.

[Chief Enabler]

Maybe management should get over the attitude of being a young team and start treating them like men. <_<

[R_Dudley]

I think the team needs to play tougher unfortunately that may go deeper that 1 or 2 tweaks for a total style change. We were lauded for how well we built the team post lockout and that when we came out we were the best prepared to showcase the new nhl and we were weren't we. How many years do you all think that took ? IMO it was several.

 

Lindy bought into that good, bad or indifferent and came up with the system he's been using to do that. That system reaches all the way back down to the farm and the type of players we were drafting and the style we looked for and we also used to be able to enforce on the farm before we started sharing(hindsight 20/20 horrible decision).

 

Now spin forward a few years where we lost some key components of that system (e.g. mobile fast puck carrying defensemen, strong centerman, solid special teams(experienced), very speedy reliable forwards(small in our case ) and then the biggest kicker to our current style IMHO is the NHL has allowed the old nhl back(interference, clutching, grabbing) and now we all question if the style/system needs to change.

 

The things I ask myself and answer :unsure:

 

1)If we are going to change Is Lindy the one I want changing that style? (yes)

 

2.)Do we have the right players for a total makeover to that physical/grind it style ? (No) No point in rehashing those as we agree on most

 

3.)Do we have all the right pieces in place to make a style change ? (No) need a dedicated farm team/system supporting with solid coaching

 

4.)How long will that take ? If we are totally changing the style/system, assuming some of the younger players can be retrained and we start drafting that way(?no nathan gerbe) and also right FA...... 2 years or more for SCF

 

5.)Can the style we were built to play win SCF in the new Old NHL ? Not with the key players we lost, but possibly quicker(less time) to get us to the playoffs with some core we already have and some specific changes around the passengers on the bus Not sure at best a qualified maybe and only if they are willing to start to consistently enforcing the rules again especially in Playoffs.

 

6.)Last question, Running a business that markets to fans, trying to be competitive while trying to make money which way do you go at this crossroads decision ?

 

I Dunno,,, I want to see them win now but I also want then to stand up for each other. Maybe nobody comes to aid each other because they don't shiv a git about each other so maybe it is time to just blow it all up and start all over.... Arghhh I hate being passionate about a team... <_<

[inkman]

2.)Do we have the right players for a total makeover to that physical/grind it style ? (No) No point in rehashing those as we agree on most

 

3.)Do we have all the right pieces in place to make a style change ? (No) need a dedicated farm team/system supporting with solid coaching

 

4.)How long will that take ? If we are totally changing the style/system, assuming some of the younger players can be retrained and we start drafting that way(?no nathan gerbe) and also right FA...... 2 years or more for SCF

I think it can be done with a few changes:

 

Get rid of Max, Tim, and Hank. The heart of the softenss.

 

Sign Sean Avery, Matt Cooke, Nolan Pratt and Mike Commodore.

 

Make Sekera and Weber your #1 D pair.

 

Promote Kaleta permanently.

 

Your 2009 Buffalo Sabres:

 

Vanek-Roy-Bernier/Stafford

Pominville-Gaustad-Hecht

Cooke-Avery-Kotalik

Kaleta-Mair-Stafford/Bernier

 

Extra forward: Peters

 

Weber-Sekera

Spacek- Commodore

Lydman-Pratt

 

Extra Defenseman: Paetsch

[tom webster]

As I have stated before, i think this whole old new NHL is a bunch a crap and the notion that everyone has to be built like Anaheim is likewise a bunch of crap.Different styles can win. I look at the East and think the three up and coming teams are Montreal, Pittsburgh and Washington and you are not going to beat them with just grit and toughness.

Like everything in life, moderation, adaptation and pushing the limits of your abilities is what succeeds. The difference between hard working players and those who aren't is that those that aren't think they are working as hard as they can. True toughness and grit comes from being able to push yourself to the point that you even surprise yourself.

Everyone of thesee athletes want to be the best for different reasons. Only some of them know what it takes to be the best.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

I think it can be done with a few changes:

 

Get rid of Max, Tim, and Hank. The heart of the softenss.

 

Sign Sean Avery, Matt Cooke, Nolan Pratt and Mike Commodore.

 

Make Sekera and Weber your #1 D pair.

 

Promote Kaleta permanently.

 

Your 2009 Buffalo Sabres:

 

Vanek-Roy-Bernier/Stafford

Pominville-Gaustad-Hecht

Cooke-Avery-Kotalik

Kaleta-Mair-Stafford/Bernier

 

Extra forward: Peters

 

Weber-Sekera

Spacek- Commodore

Lydman-Pratt

 

Extra Defenseman: Paetsch

 

I vote for Inkman as our new GM.

[inkman]

True toughness and grit comes from being able to push yourself to the point that you even surprise yourself.

An entirely different thread could be started about the definition of toughness. I agree with your point and still think this team could use some of the other kind of toughness as well.

[inkman]

I vote for Inkman as our new GM.

I'm not entirely thrilled with the top line scoring talent but if Bernier of Stafford develop into what their skills dictate they could be I would feel a little better.

[tom webster]

I vote for Inkman as our new GM.

 

 

I like the thinking, especially Cooke and Avery but I think you can do better than Commondore and than make Weber and Sekera number two pairing. I also would have to see what you got for Max, Tim, Hank as well as Clarke before I annoint you GM.

[Strow]

avery wants 3.5 million a year Ill pass for that money.

 

I think this really comes down to the new NHL being killed off at the end of last season with about a month until the playoffs. Some people have really good points and no reason to restate them but I agree changes need to be made (all the players that have already been said) and Lindy can coach them back to the suprise team like they where the season after the lock out.

 

At least this team has some young guys that we can look forward to in the next few years and some college kids too.

[shoveldog]

Get rid of Max, Tim, and Hank Lydman. The heart of the softenss.

 

There, fixed it for you.

[cdexchange]

There, fixed it for you.

 

 

 

There's no way Lydman is softer than Tallinder.

[Bmwolf21]

There's no way Lydman is softer than Tallinder.

I'd call it a dead heat.

[Goodfella25]

There's no way Lydman is softer than Tallinder.

 

He isn't softer, but he's a hell of a lot dumber are more careless with the puck.

[shoveldog]

There's no way Lydman is softer than Tallinder.

 

I'm not sure what games you are watching, but Toni Lydman is the opponents best player every night. I'll grant you that they "might" be equally soft, but Lydman is a turnover machine... and it's always at the wrong time of the game at the wrong spot on the ice.

[carpandean]

Sign Sean Avery

Please god don't! I like agitators and I think he's good at his job, but I can't stand that guy. And, no, it's not just a "well then he's doing his job, but you'd love him on your team" situation. I can't put my finger on it, but I just don't like him as a person or at least the persona the he exudes on the ice. It may be the difference between confident and cocky. I respect confidence; I hate cocky.