LTS

2005 - Crosby, Ryan, Jack Johnson, Benoit Pouliot, Carey Price (Crosby clearly, Ryan, certainly, Johnson and Pouliot.. not so much, Price.. maybe) 2006 - Erik Johnson, Jordan Staal, Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel 2007 - Patrick Kane, James van Riemsdyk, Kyle Turris, Thomas Hickey, Karl Alzner (Sam Gagner, 6th) 2008 - Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Luke Schenn Of those 20 players, 9 of them are players I would consider top talent (Crosby, Ryan, Staal, Toews, Backstrom, Kane, Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian) Of those 20 players quite a few have been flipped to other teams (E. Johnson, J, Johnson, Staal, Kessel, Pouliot, JVR, Turris, Schenn) Now, we could potentially discount Kane/Toews because I would consider that like Malkin,Crosby. I just look over those top 5 picks and I can't say that it really helps. Ryan is a legit star but he appears to be on the outside looking in in Anaheim. If you want me to say that picking in the Top 5 improves your chances of landing top talent I will. I agree with that. But I just can't get behind wanting a team to lose to get there. Most of the teams that succeeded did so because they had multiple top picks. So, are we willing to sit here as fans and want the top pick this year and next year? Can we sit through another season of sucking? I think we want to say yes. I think we want to say, if there's a plan then I am behind it. But I think that when January of 2014 rolls around we'll be desperate for a team that shows something. I think this team can improve without having to get the top picks.

The Sabres had a lot of injuries last year. I remember what we kept saying about that point.... The Panthers improved when they obtained Campbell, Kopecky, Versteeg, Fleischmann. Still their top 5 in scoring right now are a -8, -7, -12, -18 (Campbell), and -5... that's scary.

Perhaps they should have tried harder to get him last year instead of Kassian. What do we have to send them all the character tough guys? It's a simple truth.. if the Sabres traded Ott they would lose Weber, they would lose their backbone, and they would, most importantly, lose every single fan they have. Ott IS the face of the Sabres now.

Here's my problem for anyone who wants to get a top pick... there's no guarantees you are going to get better, next year, the following year, or 4 years later. I just can't get behind the idea of going for a #1 pick because of that. If you knew, absolutely knew, that the top pick was going to be an all-time great then sure, I might be behind it. I'm looking at drafts from 2008-2012... Oilers - Top Pick Last 3 Years - currently suck Tampa - Top Pick in 08, 2nd pick in 09 - just fired their coach, sucking Islanders - 1st in 09, 5th in 10, 5th in 11, 4th in 12 - not looking too good (less points than Buffalo right now) Panthers - 3rd in 10, 3rd in 11 - sucking Jackets - 4th in 10, 2nd in 12 - sucking Avalanche - 3rd in 09, 2nd in 11 - sucking There are teams who have managed to sneak into a top 5 pick over the past 5 years (Blues, Bruins, Devils, Canadiens) but they've had other pieces that were in place to turn it around quickly. If the Sabres are that bad then what is a Top 5 pick going to do for them? It's not a guarantee of improvement. For those teams that I listed as sucking, if they weren't in the top 5 they were usually 6 or 7 or so. They've had top picks and nothing comes from it. This is why I cannot get behind the idea. I understand the concept, but unless you are Pittsburgh who gets Fleury, Crosby, Staal, and Malkin over a few drafts you are most likely going to suck. A team would have to flip some talent in order to improve greatly. I keep waiting for Edmonton to do it. Three #1 picks on the roster and some other higher picks and they are getting nowhere...

The next coach has fallen. Sounds like perhaps they'll be looking to move people too given their lack of success. Maybe not, they are a better team on paper I believe. Steve Yzerman made the announcement early Sunday morning. "Guy has poured his heart and soul into the Lightning organization for these past three years and we appreciate all the work he has done," Yzerman said in a statement. "But ultimately I am not satisfied with the direction we are heading and I believe making a change today is in the best interest of our franchise.

Indeed. It's pretty good. The Scotch menu is pretty serious as well. Ahh that would do it. We had a great time last night. The beer selection was not the best but they'll always have their OT20 DIPA on tap and that beer is heavenly... the $5.25/pint just makes it better. It's an exceptional beer in my opinion. Would I call it my favorite? I don't think so, but from a technical perspective it's done right. Not a huge Pliny fan. It's one of those beers that I think is overrated. It's pretty thin lacking the body I prefer in a beer. Union Jack.. that's another story. :)

I'll be sitting at The Old Toad tonight drinking plenty of good beer while the Sabres are playing. Of course there are no TV's there.. so I won't see the game.

Does anyone really think that the trade value for Stafford is going to change whether he is playing tonight or not? Teams have a few years of his work to see what they are getting. There isn't a single player on this team that can be "showcased". Stafford got to shoot in the shootout in front of all the scouts last game. My guess is that everything people needed to see, they've seen. Scratching him would most likely be to protect against injury and to give him a chance to spectate (a well deserved chance). Go Sabres. I won't be seeing this one as I am going out tonight. Too bad really... a hockey game in Montreal on Saturday night? That's epic, no matter what the Sabres do.

Okay.. I'm just playing this over and over again now. Truly outstanding work.

Hodgson Weber Ott Foligno Ehrhoff Same names pop up a lot, don't they?

I'd get mad at the Leafs fans.. but really they are just market opportunists. I'd get mad at the Sabres fans for selling the tickets to the Leafs fans but really they are just market opportunists. So.. I'm just going to get mad. I despise the fact that a home game has so many opposing fans in the rink. Of course that's how they feel about us in Carolina right? Oh well.. beat da Maple Leaf, eh?

That and the D who COULD skate the puck are choosing to dump the puck to the NON-MOVING winger who is 4 feet away. That's just insane.

There's no real hockey reason. The simple problem with Stafford is that while growing up people told him to the kind of guy that is always moving forward. So, really it's not his fault. By the way.. this is a Sabres problem. One of the things that drives me nuts about "the systems" that are being played. A winger who is standing still on the half wall is an easy target for even the slowest of forecheckers.

The great thing about being a pessimist is that you are either right or pleasantly surprised. I understand your point of view. I just have more faith, strange too, because I don't go to church. I agree with you 100%. At this point in time I think anyone from Buffalo would feel so much better about themselves if any sports team could win a Championship. I'm actually frightened what might happen should it occur. Buffalo may cease to be what we know it is and become something we all despise. It could be horrible.. everyone walking around drinking cosmo's and eating finger sandwiches. Scary. Joking aside of course, I do think that final season standings don't tell it all. The truth about the Sabres is out there. It can be encapsulated in many factors. We are all also influenced by the shades of truth we receive as well. Take the situation with Kaleta and Miller yesterday. If you heard all the comments including the question that was asked you might come up with different viewpoints. The truth is in the words Kaleta spoke. Miller was asked a question that incorrectly stated what Kaleta had said and he responded to it. How many ways to interpret that? A) Miller is pissed off because he just lost.. again and was just lashing out in anger. B) Miller actually has a problem with this team anyway and his willingness to sound off at that time is indicative of the underlying problem. C) Miller does not like Kaleta much. D) Miller heard what Kaleta had said earlier and knew the question was asked incorrectly but decided to answer it anyway to try and cause problems encouraging his trade as a locker room cancer. Any number of things there could be true.. Oh well.. another game tomorrow. The good news is that I still don't act like i do when watching/listening to the Bills play. I actually don't even watch them much anymore but it really got the point where I would laugh when they screwed up and then gain enjoyment from the fact that I would be entertained by how many people would call WGR or talk about it at work as though they actually still believed the team was relevant or capable of anything good. If that happens to me with the Sabres then I am in trouble.

Deal. :)

Indeed. So he gets the playoffs in the Q and then heads to Rochester for some playoffs there? I can live with that. I'm not sure how those two leagues line up, I'll be honest. But let's say that happens. He gets some significant playing time after seeing the NHL level of play. I'm thinking that might be a good thing.

I understand the point. Look, I walk around now and say the Sabres suck. Every day I say it. They are terrible. It is the natural tendency of human beings to focus on the short-term/recent past more than the bigger picture. It often leads to decision making, attitudes, etc. that while perfectly viable in the "now" are not necessarily in the best interests of the long term goal. I want the Sabres to be like Detroit or Pittsburgh. I'd accept San Jose even I suppose. I'm not sure there's a debate about whether it could be worse. I think we know it could be worse. We could not have a team to complain about. We could be in Florida.. sure the sunshine might make us happier but a failing hockey team would still depress us and the constant talk about them leaving the market wouldn't help at all. We don't have that, at least. I want it to be better too, I'm just not in total despair I guess. As I said in other threads, I'm fairly confident a house cleaning is coming right through to DR. I believe the team, even with Rolston, still exhibits certain levels of style that are not working in the NHL. I think Pegula left it alone just long enough to see what he had.

Thought I would post a slightly different thread with some observations. Given that every thread basically disintegrates into a they suck/they don't suck that bad debate I thought I would try a thread where we could encompass it all. I pulled together the final conference standings since the 06-07 season. I averaged those finishing positions out and ranked the teams. I also then included today's standings as the finishing position for this season and did the same thing. Finally, I looked at where each team is currently sitting and compared it to their average finishing position for a difference. While there are not many surprises in doing this I think it provides a little bit if perspective on the Sabres. The Maple Leafs have not made the playoffs in that entire time. The Avalanche have Stastny, Duchesne, Landeskog, O'Reilly, and more and they are perpetual bottom dwellers. The Islanders are the model of ineptitude. The Oilers who have had near #1 picks for 4 years straight continue to stay at the bottom. How many of their fans are saying "Wait until next year when our prospects pan out?" San Jose, the second best team over that time has not even made a Stanley Cup final. There are really only a handful of teams that have succeeded over that time span. Some have had nice breaks like Pittsburgh getting Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal, Letang, and more. Sure they've made some good moves too but getting top picks at the right time matters (right Edmonton?) San Jose has made great moves and had nothing to show for it. Would you want to be Washington right now? They finished in the top 3 in the conference 4 times in this span and now the wheels have fallen off that team. Tampa Bay, a team with Stamkos, Lecavalier, St. Louis, and more have not succeeded. Would you rather have their roster? You might. When I look at the breakdown below there are a few teams that are clearly doing it right (Detroit, New Jersey, Vancouver, Boston). Buffalo has struggled lately and we are all getting tired of it but over the past 6 seasons DR is squarely responsible for the creation of this team and he has them in the upper half of average finishing position. It's good to be bothered by the current state of the team to be certain but I guess rather than get all worked up over how bad they are today just remember it could be a lot worse. Many of us are from Buffalo. We lived through the Bills losing 4 straight championship games. It was awful. I couldn't stand being a San Jose fan. All the promise in the world and nothing to show for it. I couldn't stand being an Islanders, Avalanche, Oilers, Leafs fan... that has to be a horrible feeling. Knowing you have talent and aren't succeeding, etc. You can look around and get jealous of another team's roster but then you look at where they are and you wonder.. well.. maybe not. Philadelphia, for all its success has averaged right along with the Sabres. They are floundering this season, just like Buffalo but I think we'd all say they are a better team. Unfortunately the numbers say otherwise. If Buffalo, had made the Finals in 2006-2007 they would have been right on par with the Flyers. Does it mean much? I don't know. I think we all take away from this team what we want. Of course I want this team to be better but I just can't get myself to the point where I think all is lost and that no one on the team knows what they are doing. The breakdown is below. From 06-07 through 11-12 season (team - average finishing position / bolded are teams in Stanley Cup Final): Detroit - 2.83 San Jose - 3 Vancouver - 3.67 Pittsburgh - 3.83 New Jersey / Washington - 4.67 Boston - 5.5 Rangers - 6 Predators - 6.33 Buffalo / Philadelphia - 6.67 Anaheim - 7 Chicago - 7.17 Montreal / Ottawa - 8 Calgary - 8.17 St. Louis - 8.67 Phoenix - 8.83 Dallas - 9 Minnesota - 9.33 Carolina - 9.43 Colorado / Winnipeg / Tampa - 10.5 Florida / Los Angeles - 10.67 Toronto - 11.83 Columbus - 12.17 Edmonton - 12.67 Islanders - 12.83 Average Finishing Position of Teams in Each Division: Atlantic - 6.94 Central - 7.26 Pacific - 7.66 Northeast - 7.69 Northwest - 9.09 Southeast - 9.37

I think you are incorrect. I think there are plenty of teams who have cap space now and next year who might be interested in a guy like Stafford. I would look at St. Louis who might consider him an upgrade over Andy McDonald is who a UFA next season. St. Louis could move him, clear $4.7m and bring in Stafford who provides a boost in offense and with St. Louis being a sound defensive team his +/- is less of a concern. I think the teams are out there who could use him. Miller we shall see. He has a NTC but it leaves 21 teams open for the Sabres to potentially partner with.

And a defense that allowed a forward to break out of the zone with speed. And a system that didn't turn the puck over at the blue line or could complete a successful forecheck to add pressure in the zone. He might have looked okay but with this skating I don't think he would have handled it very well on a team that played with a greater speed. He was constantly caught from behind by other players. He was out hustled to almost every puck as well. He had a few nice moments but putting him on the top line or the second line would not have done much in my opinion. He simply is not ready for the NHL and this isn't a bad thing. He was the youngest player in the NHL this year while he was there. He'll be back and a new coaching staff will work with him. To proclaim total doom and gloom on the guy after 22 games is really reaching. (for those who are) and for anyone to say all he needed was more ice time I think that's crazy too. Christ, the Sabres have a lot of players who are more proven than he is and who are as talented as he might be who get a lot of ice time and they aren't succeeding either.

No one would give a 1st round pick for Gaustad and Brennan would clear waivers all day long. I think it's foolish to presume to know what 29 other GM's would do when we can't even figure out what DR would do and we spend much more time speculating about his actions. If I were making guesses as to the moves coming they would be: Leopold traded Pominville traded Gerbe traded Regehr traded (this depends on the teams that call and if Regehr wants to go to a top team with a great chance to win the Cup, Detroit or St. Louis perhaps) Stafford traded I think they will try and move Miller in the off season. I think the coaching staff will be gone and depending on the trades Regier can make at the deadline he'll be gone too. I think there are people inside the organization consulting on his moves just to provide some oversight. We're just not likely to hear about it.

Every player should spend time with Roberts. I would have liked more ice time for him as well but the truth was he was clearly not ready. However, he made it past the 5 game mark so you might as well keep him and get him some experience now while you still can.

Sorry if I don't quote posts.. reading 4 pages to get here makes it tougher. I totally agree with this move. I fully believe the plan to start the season was to have the Ott-Girgorenko-Leino line. Suddenly Leino is injured. Grigs plays his 5 games and he doesn't look awful. So you make a choice. Leino will be out for awhile and Grigs might be able to catch on at 18 so you keep him. This entire nonsense about a year of his contract is a red herring. No one cares, I think people make too much of it. The season progresses and you find that your team isn't working. Your coach is gone, nothing is improving. However, in order to keep your roster flexible you keep Grigs on the team. He's learning (something Paul Hamilton pointed out in his discussions). He's had assistant coaches working with him, they've been trying to improve his skating (because it is bad). He had nothing to learn in the Q except more bad habits. So, he gets some NHL experience. Leino is healthy. You need a roster spot. Porter is a center, you need flexibility with centers and you need to put him through waivers. If he gets picked up then you lose a C for flexibility. So if you have an injury you then need to call up Luke Adam, etc. and you hurt your Rochester team all for a Sabres team that is not going anywhere. You don't want to send down Flynn because he's been producing. He's on his NHL trial right now. So, you move Grigorenko because it's the smart thing to do. He can come back and he's completely protected from being picked up. He'll play a more rigorous schedule and he'll potentially be around a winning club and under Patrick Roy. This is not a bad thing. I do think it's a tad convenient that Leino is healthy at the 22 game mark for Girgorenko. Sending him back to the Q saves the UFA status from being premature and that's really what matters isn't it? The Sabres will continue to have rights on Grigorenko and the right of first refusal if he's an RFA. If he flourishes he'll get a contract, if not then they can see what others things he's worth and match if they want. It's not a stupid move. Now, we see the trade of Brennan. This would have left room for Grigorenko to stay as well. It SEEMS stupid. Except most people have determined that Brennan is useless. You could waive him back but clearly Florida would have taken him for free on waivers if they were willing to give up a 5th rounder. So, now DR has a 5th round pick for a player we don't want and would have been lost for nothing via waivers. That's not stupid. What's the plan now? Well, the Sabres have a roster spots opening up. My guess is that more players are going to get their NHL trial. I still think more players are going to be moved. I think the appearance of uncertainty really only extends to the firing of Ruff and I can see where the loyalty and long-term relationships made that a tough call. Especially in a shortened season when you don't get big breaks between games to make a choice on things. Call me the optimist, but I try to keep emotion from overruling solid reasoning. There are other trades I would make as well but you can't give pieces away.. I think it's coming.

I've seen improvements at times and then there were times, and it happened last night, where the Sabres were just stuck. The Devils kept two guys hammering the D and the Sabres had no answer. They kept flipping the puck around and could not get it out. If they did it was to the red line and it came right back in again to cause more problems. I think their d-zone coverage has looked a little better but when it comes to clearing the zone with possession I don't see it. Under Ruff, under Rolston, they keep trying to hit a winger who is parked with his back to the rest of the ice and expect that guy to be able to turn and move the puck before being checked and it continually doesn't happen. The D-men are not skating the puck out and that's part of the problem. They also try and dump the puck off to a guy that is 6 feet away and wonder why the forechecker gets pressure. It's kind of like the same stupid play they keep trying on a PP where Ennis rushes to the blue line, dumps it to the guy who is standing at the blue line with the intent that the point man will get it back to Ennis as he goes by the defender. It's a great idea, but it never works. Instead the defender, standing 3 feet inside the blue line pressures the point man and the puck comes right back out of the zone.

It's an interesting thought. Of course how much of it is because he didn't cut it here? Did he get boned over and now has a beef with the guy? This season will show what RR can do. I see improvements in some areas but the defensive zone breakouts and recovery are awful. They look lost in their own end.