Taro T Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 I do have to ask a question to those that despise the logo so much. What should be done to make it better in your opinion (besides go back to the original, or scrap it completly) I have never despised the new logo, but do agree it could be better. Looking at it, I think if they changed the colour to a white buffalo, with maybe blue and gold details and outlines, and making both horns the same color it would look much better. There also seems to be too much arc in the design tha makes it look like it is crashing into the ground. The only reason I could see those ideas not working is because on a white uniform, a white logo would blend in too much. Apus, Given your constraints on the discussion, here's what I think. 1st off, get rid of the d*mn yellow. It should be an accent, if used at all, in the "buffalo". (See, I'm trying to play nice. ;) ) For the home darks, I would preferably replace the yellow with white or a very light silver (lighter than in the shatanic goathead or the new logo, so it almost looks like it's glowing white) with white accents. For the road whites, I would still go with white/light silver but would increase the blue accents around the border. I might add additional blue accents in the logo, but I'm not sure how to add additional accents, so I probably wouldn't. For both sweaters, I would tilt the new logo back to a more upright position so it doesn't look like it's trying to dive into the ice. I would make the head a little bit smaller and raise the eye up, but leaving the beard the way it is, so what now looks like the beard would actually become a leg. I would also lower the barb on the back slightly so it hints at a tail and the back left will then look like a leg. I would also keep both horns white/silver. I don't think that would look great, but do think it COULD grow on me over time (nowhere near certain it would, but at least it would have a chance). The current logo, I honestly don't see how it would ever grow on me. I absolutely cannot stand the fact that it is friggin' yellow. Yellow symbolizes cowardice. Especially on a smallish team, that should be the last character trait you are trying to emphasize. Also, while I am certain that people will say it makes the logo look like the Bills logo, there are several things that are different. The Sabres logo would have 2 horns, the Bills 1. The Sabres would have 2 visible legs and no visible male organ, the Bills 4 legs and 1 member. The Sabres logo will have multiple colors in the buffalo, the Bills has 1. The Sabres streak starts at the nose and ends inside the body, the Bills streak starts at the horn and trails well past the body. The Bills buffalo's outline is much more realistic than the Sabres one would be. While not being a trademark attorney, I doubt the Bills would have a case that the Sabres logo is a ripoff of the Bills logo. They definitely wouldn't have a case in a design patent infringement proceeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 What do you mean besides "scrap it completely"??? That's exactly what needs to happen. I could live with the jerseys, mainly the home jersey which I stated from the beginning that I like the design of. But I will never be satisfied until that logo is gone and I never have to see it again. I don't care if I end up being in the 1% that will always hate it and never buy anything with it on there (except tickets, of course). And I know it probably isn't going to change but whatever, I'll keep hoping it does. Well, I was trying to get a rational discussion going about hoe it could be improved and figured most answers would be just what you said or just people flaming me for suggesting I don't mind the logo. Face it, your stuck with this as the Sabres logo for atleast a couple of seasons. If it really offends you or turns you off that this could be the logo that represents a stanley cup champions team, find a team that won't change their logo, like the Flyers, Canadians or Leafs. You will suffer less heartbreak then So why do you hate this logo so much? And if you say you will never buy anything with the logo on it, how can you come back and say you will buy tickets even if the logo is on it? Also, while I am certain that people will say it makes the logo look like the Bills logo, there are several things that are different. The Sabres logo would have 2 horns, the Bills 1. The Sabres would have 2 visible legs and no visible male organ, the Bills 4 legs and 1 member. The Sabres logo will have multiple colors in the buffalo, the Bills has 1. The Sabres streak starts at the nose and ends inside the body, the Bills streak starts at the horn and trails well past the body. The Bills buffalo's outline is much more realistic than the Sabres one would be. While not being a trademark attorney, I doubt the Bills would have a case that the Sabres logo is a ripoff of the Bills logo. They definitely wouldn't have a case in a design patent infringement proceeding. Your changes are kind of what I was saying. I wasn't saying making those changes would make it the best logo ever, but it would be an improvement. As for your comments about the Bills, It would still be far enough away from the Bills logo that I don't think people would look at it as a ripoff. But this brings me to another point that people have been whining about. How come the Sabres can't use the Buffalo as a main logo (it has to include a Sabre Sword because we are the Sabres, not the Buffalos) yet the Bills have no complaints using only a Buffalo for their logo. Shouldn't they have to use something to do with Buffalo Bill? (or whatever they were officially named after) Using this theory, only the Bison should have a Buffalo in their logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Face it, your stuck with this as the Sabres logo for atleast a couple of seasons. If it really offends you or turns you off that this could be the logo that represents a stanley cup champions team, find a team that won't change their logo, like the Flyers, Canadians or Leafs. You will suffer less heartbreak then. So why do you hate this logo so much? And if you say you will never buy anything with the logo on it, how can you come back and say you will buy tickets even if the logo is on it? Your changes are kind of what I was saying. I wasn't saying making those changes would make it the best logo ever, but it would be an improvement. As for your comments about the Bills, It would still be far enough away from the Bills logo that I don't think people would look at it as a ripoff. But this brings me to another point that people have been whining about. How come the Sabres can't use the Buffalo as a main logo (it has to include a Sabre Sword because we are the Sabres, not the Buffalos) yet the Bills have no complaints using only a Buffalo for their logo. Shouldn't they have to use something to do with Buffalo Bill? (or whatever they were officially named after) Using this theory, only the Bison should have a Buffalo in their logo. Er, see you can love the team, but still dislike the logo. Say they changed the label on Campbell's Tomato Soup. You might hate the new label, but the soup is still yummy. As for switching to a team that doesn't change it's logo....nope. It's always going to be the Sabres, ugly label or no. -Ed ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Er, see you can love the team, but still dislike the logo. Say they changed the label on Campbell's Tomato Soup. You might hate the new label, but the soup is still yummy. As for switching to a team that doesn't change it's logo....nope. It's always going to be the Sabres, ugly label or no. -Ed ;) So if it doesn't affect the product inside, does the label on the front really matter Would you start a letter writing campaign to cambells forcing them to go back to the old labels, or go on cambell soups message board (sadly, there probably is one) and rant about how bad it is and how they missed the boat on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 DeLuca, seriously, these choices are ridiculous, and the poster with the remark about lamenting the loss of Miro again was right on. Don't read a thread about the logo or jersey if you don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 So if it doesn't affect the product inside, does the label on the front really matter Would you start a letter writing campaign to cambells forcing them to go back to the old labels, or go on cambell soups message board (sadly, there probably is one) and rant about how bad it is and how they missed the boat on this? In the Sabres case, yes the label on the front really DOES matter. For soup it doesn't to the same degree, although I am sure there are marketers who could show you data that show that sales ARE affected by the presentation, i.e., the label. People aren't buying the label, they are buying the soup, repeat customers might not (and probably won't) be thrown off by the label, but new customers definitely could and will be affected by the label. If Progresso has a photo of it's soup on the label and it looks really appetizing and Campbell's has the boring old red label, it likely would sell better to someone who hasn't tried either or doesn't expect much difference between the 2. So I would proposition that the label on a soup can DOES matter, but I wouldn't expect to see a 30,000+ petition to change the label (I'd expect more like a 150 signature petition. ;) ) The soup company is selling 1 thing - soup. That isn't true for an NHL hockey team. The reason it matters for a hockey team is the Sabres are expecting to make money selling not just the product on the ice, but also THE PARTICULAR LABEL that the team wears on the ice. Because the Sabres, and all other teams, DO sell the label, it DOES matter how the label comes across. A sharp, distinctive, classical or even new and bold design can sell tremendously if it looks good. Something that looks horrible, a particular abominable snot smear springs to mind immediately, will NOT sell nearly as well as something that does look good. Heck, it may even, when all is said and done, sell more full price sweaters than were sold last year because last year people were holding off on buying merchandise because they knew it would be dated in 8 months AND a lot of people like to be the "1st on the block" with anything new, no matter how ridiculous it is. But there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that the team will sell even remotely closely to what they could have sold by coming up with a GOOD logo. (Heck, they won't sell as much as they could have had they come up with something that was roughly equally as lame as the Nordiques' old igloo.) Obviously there are fans that view this as you do, and that will allow the Sabres to sell SOME abominable snot smear merchandise. However, because there are fans like me, that REALLY don't like the abominable snot smear, the Sabres WILL NOT sell as much merchandise this year as they could have with a good design. I don't want to own a $200+ shirt with a giant abominable snot smear stuck on the middle of it. And, because of the ill will it has generated, and especially because Mr. Quinn has been hinting that the vintage jersey will look different next year (I'm not sure how they could do that as I thought that would make it a 3rd jersey that they aren't supposed to be allowed to introduce for 2 (or is it 3?) years) I may not even buy a vintage jersey. I do prefer the darker blue to the classic blue, so why would I buy a pro-weight Spacek this year when I can probably have one that looks better next year? I may break down by the end of the season and buy a 3rd. I'll definitely buy a golf shirt or 2 with the classic logo or the shatanic goathead. Heck I might even buy one with the blue B on it. But I will not buy any clothing with the abominable snot smear on it. That IS a problem for the Sabres, because I most certainly am not the only long time fan that feels that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegas4BOC Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 For the home darks, I would preferably replace the yellow with white or a very light silver (lighter than in the shatanic goathead or the new logo, so it almost looks like it's glowing white) with white accents. For the road whites, I would still go with white/light silver but would increase the blue accents around the border. I might add additional blue accents in the logo, but I'm not sure how to add additional accents, so I probably wouldn't. For both sweaters, I would tilt the new logo back to a more upright position so it doesn't look like it's trying to dive into the ice. I would make the head a little bit smaller and raise the eye up, but leaving the beard the way it is, so what now looks like the beard would actually become a leg. I would also lower the barb on the back slightly so it hints at a tail and the back left will then look like a leg. I would also keep both horns white/silver. I always thought that if they were hellbent on the flying Buffalo look: Get rid of the yellow and make it white while incorporating the circle with crossed Sabre swords. road jersey home jersey Logo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 DeLuca, seriously, these choices are ridiculous, and the poster with the remark about lamenting the loss of Miro again was right on. Don't read a thread about the logo or jersey if you don't want to. They were meant to be :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Since the topic won't go away. The uniform is getting absolutely hammered here in Vancouver area. Don Taylor was doing the highlights and couldn't stop daggering the look. Fans calling into local shows were laughing at it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Since the topic won't go away. The uniform is getting absolutely hammered here in Vancouver area. Don Taylor was doing the highlights and couldn't stop daggering the look. Fans calling into local shows were laughing at it too. honest to god, it may be the contrary and just plain parochial 14 year-old in me (figuratively, people ... i haven't consumed any teenagers of late), but the one thing that might galvanize me as a supporter of the new uniforms is people from other markets mocking it. after the toronto preseason game, i read a column in the sun by some tool who spent a good 250 words bashing the new uniform before even getting to his thoughts on the game, at which point he was bound to acknowledge that, while the sabres looked bad in terms of their uniform, his leafs looked bad in terms of their hockey. it made me want to say: what are we, frickin' design school castoffs, or hockey fans?! (that question's rhetorical - no need to answer it.) anyway, there's a big part of me that still regrets the new look -- but there's another part of me that's ready to move on ... and, oh yeah, a part of me that wants to bust people in the mouth when they start taking potshots at my sabres, for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedesessed Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I say just have one pinned thread at the top to discuss all issues with the new slug. I am planning on cleaning up with the black and red...will buy jerseys on sale and merchandise then this new crap Larry Quinn and the Sabres are trying to sell...I'm not that much of a sucker that is for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottnc Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I do have to ask a question to those that despise the logo so much. What should be done to make it better in your opinion (besides go back to the original, or scrap it completly) I have never despised the new logo, but do agree it could be better. Looking at it, I think if they changed the colour to a white buffalo, with maybe blue and gold details and outlines, and making both horns the same color it would look much better. There also seems to be too much arc in the design tha makes it look like it is crashing into the ground. The only reason I could see those ideas not working is because on a white uniform, a white logo would blend in too much. If I will be forced to look at the new logo, I'd at least ask to put the wordmark underneath it. To me it looks like it leaves too much empty space on the front of the jersey, like's it only half a crest. The wording might help to at least fill it out a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjsbu96 Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Here's one reason why I WON"T move on. The Islander fans - almost as rabid as ours, at least in their heyday - went apesh!t about the Gorton's Fisherman. How long did that jersey last? I don't have the time to LEXUSNEXUS the articles, but I imagine fan outcry was a big reason why they got rid of them. I will watch my hockey team, wear my old blue-n-gold, but will continue to opine that the logo sucks every chance I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodfella25 Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Well, I was trying to get a rational discussion going about hoe it could be improved and figured most answers would be just what you said or just people flaming me for suggesting I don't mind the logo. Face it, your stuck with this as the Sabres logo for atleast a couple of seasons. If it really offends you or turns you off that this could be the logo that represents a stanley cup champions team, find a team that won't change their logo, like the Flyers, Canadians or Leafs. You will suffer less heartbreak then So why do you hate this logo so much? And if you say you will never buy anything with the logo on it, how can you come back and say you will buy tickets even if the logo is on it? Your changes are kind of what I was saying. I wasn't saying making those changes would make it the best logo ever, but it would be an improvement. What am I going to do, go up to the ticket counter and go "yea I'd like ticket for the game, but I'm only buying them if the slug logo isnt on there." Thats what I meant, in that situation I'd have no choice to buy something with the slug on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickdraw Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Here's one reason why I WON"T move on. The Islander fans - almost as rabid as ours, at least in their heyday - went apesh!t about the Gorton's Fisherman. How long did that jersey last? I don't have the time to LEXUSNEXUS the articles, but I imagine fan outcry was a big reason why they got rid of them. I will watch my hockey team, wear my old blue-n-gold, but will continue to opine that the logo sucks every chance I get. I think it was a combination of the fan outcry + a front office that listened. We have the fan outcry, but I don't think we have the front office that listens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I think it was a combination of the fan outcry + a front office that listened. We have the fan outcry, but I don't think we have the front office that listens. Wasn't their problem with the logo that it was offensive to them because since people from Long Island are refered to as Islanders sometimes that using the fisherman as the logo would make people think they are all fishermen so they said it was offensive? Or maybe it was just because they complained and had ownership listen. Maybe we can follow their lead and have ownership just like them and can follow in their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Maybe we can follow their lead and have ownership just like them and can follow in their success. :lol: Marty Biron for GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 No, Apus. You are among the overthinkers on this issue. The problem on the Island was that the logo was ugly, an insult to tradition and, like ours, unintentionally funny. The man on the crest looked like the Gorton's Fisherman's evil twin, and Ranger fans immediately began chanting, "We want fishsticks!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 No, Apus. You are among the overthinkers on this issue. The problem on the Island was that the logo was ugly, an insult to tradition and, like ours, unintentionally funny. The man on the crest looked like the Gorton's Fisherman's evil twin, and Ranger fans immediately began chanting, "We want fishsticks!" How am I overthinking on that issue? I thought the reason they changed it was because the fans found it offensive and didn't want others to think they are all fishermen The logo wasn't that bad either, but it did resemble the Gortons fisherman too much. It was still better then the god awful logo they used before and now. That logo is dated and definitly needs to be redesigned. If the fans wanted the jerseys changed just because Ranger fans would chant we want fish sticks, they deserve a horrible log and a pathetic team cause that is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Well, that old Isle logo represented four Cups to them. I think you and others overthink when you try to understand why people hate logos. It's not political correctness (not everyone on Long Island is a fisherman) or opposition to change ("the Buffalo mentality). Sometimes it's just an ugly, unappealing, laughingstock of a logo. By the way, since we broke up I've been trying to be nice to you. I've basically ignored you. But if you want to be a jerk to me, will you please come by and pick up your things. I've asked you nicely 10 times. You'll see the garbage bag at the end of the hall outside my door. Your Snoopy toothbrush and SpongeBob underwear are in there, as you requested. And please, I am begging you, stop calling me in the middle of the night. ^^^^^ JOKE! JOKE! JOKE! Apus and I were allies in the "Plan" debate but have since parted ways. No animals were harmed in the production of this post. If you are breastfeeding, pregnant or may become pregnant, avoid my posts in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 You want to talk logos. Lets talk logos. Ever take a good look at the Bills logo? It's not much better the Sabres new logo. And, WTF is a Bill anyway? I looked up Bill, Bison and Buffalo and couldn't find any connection. Maybe it stands for the tax bill we get to pay for the team and the stadium. But really. You want to talk ugly logos and uniforms. The Bills are at the top of the list. And since I'm at it anyway. Shouldn't Sabretooth be the mascot for Nashville? Don't they have a Sabretooth tiger as their logo? Shouldn't that be the Sabres logo? Any what does a Sabre have to do with a Buffalo? I know the Knox brothers were into fencing but to name a team after a hobby of the rich elite in a town of lunch bucket fans? And why is this city named Buffalo? Didn't buffalo roam on the prairies of the midwest? WTF. Why not Penguin New York? Which leads me to why is a team in Pittsburgh named the f**king Penguins? There are no penguins roaming free in Pittsburgh. I have to stop before my head explodes. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Shouldn't that be the Sabres logo? Any what does a Sabre have to do with a Buffalo? I know the Knox brothers were into fencing but to name a team after a hobby of the rich elite in a town of lunch bucket fans? I know most your comments were made in jest, but here is how the name Sabres was chosen: "A selection committee was formed for the most important of tasks - naming the new team. A contest was held and the public flooded the Buffalo offices with suggestions for the new team name. Ownership wanted a name that would splash on the newspapers but disassociate the new team from the normal Buffalo sports names (ex the Bisons etc.). On the list of losing names: Bees, Mugwumps, Flying Zepplins, Knoxen, Herd, Border Riders, and Comets. Four people submitted the name Sabres and a drawing was held to see which 2 of the final 4 would be the winners of the contest. Mayor Sedita oversaw the drawing and Robert Sonnelitter Jr was designated the man who named the new Sabres." Link (click on archives, select The Birth of the Sabres.) And why is this city named Buffalo? Didn't buffalo roam on the prairies of the midwest? WTF. From http://ah.phpwebhosting.com/h/bflo/origin.html There are several theories on where the name came from, including mispronunciation of an Indian name; named for a well-known Indian who lived on Buffalo creek; french names for the area becoming "Americanized"; or that Buffalo roamed the area until the mid-1700s. Most likely is the "Indian named Buffalo" theory: "Indian named Buffalo theory: If there is an Indian connection, it is more likely related to the next theory, whichpostulates that an Indian named Buffalo lived on the creek, prompting the early non-natives to call the stream "Buffalo's Creek." This Seneca was said to have been a member of the Wolf clan and called "De-gi-yah-goh," or "Buffalo" by his tribe. He built a basswood bark cabin by the creek and fished there and became known as the chief fisherman for the Seneca. Captain Daniel Dobbins, in recounting a 1795 conversation with Buffalo resident Cornelius Winney, says this, "He assigned the reason for this sobriquet that the old Indian was a large, square framed man, with stooped shoulders and a large bushy head which ... made him resemble a Buffalo." This could very well be the source of the name, since Indians did use animal names for themselves and not usually their places. It would also explain how the name gotpassed down among both the native and non-native settlers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I know most your comments were made in jest, but here is how the name Sabres was chosen: "A selection committee was formed for the most important of tasks - naming the new team. A contest was held and the public flooded the Buffalo offices with suggestions for the new team name. Ownership wanted a name that would splash on the newspapers but disassociate the new team from the normal Buffalo sports names (ex the Bisons etc.). On the list of losing names: Bees, Mugwumps, Flying Zepplins, Knoxen, Herd, Border Riders, and Comets. Four people submitted the name Sabres and a drawing was held to see which 2 of the final 4 would be the winners of the contest. Mayor Sedita oversaw the drawing and Robert Sonnelitter Jr was designated the man who named the new Sabres." Link (click on archives, select The Birth of the Sabres.) From http://ah.phpwebhosting.com/h/bflo/origin.html There are several theories on where the name came from, including mispronunciation of an Indian name; named for a well-known Indian who lived on Buffalo creek; french names for the area becoming "Americanized"; or that Buffalo roamed the area until the mid-1700s. Most likely is the "Indian named Buffalo" theory: "Indian named Buffalo theory: If there is an Indian connection, it is more likely related to the next theory, whichpostulates that an Indian named Buffalo lived on the creek, prompting the early non-natives to call the stream "Buffalo's Creek." This Seneca was said to have been a member of the Wolf clan and called "De-gi-yah-goh," or "Buffalo" by his tribe. He built a basswood bark cabin by the creek and fished there and became known as the chief fisherman for the Seneca. Captain Daniel Dobbins, in recounting a 1795 conversation with Buffalo resident Cornelius Winney, says this, "He assigned the reason for this sobriquet that the old Indian was a large, square framed man, with stooped shoulders and a large bushy head which ... made him resemble a Buffalo." This could very well be the source of the name, since Indians did use animal names for themselves and not usually their places. It would also explain how the name gotpassed down among both the native and non-native settlers." Can he skate? How's his shot? We need some more size on the blueline :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Can he skate? How's his shot? We need some more size on the blueline :lol: Whats his 40 time? Does he have good character? Opps, sorry, wrong board, can someone move this reply to the Bills board, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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