The offseason so far - Are the Sabres better?

[Pimlach]

16 hours ago, Thorny said:

Not only bad but “bad and refuses to change his play”. Ok. Uncoachable I guess.

I must be blind because I didn’t see much bad body language or attitude from Peterka.  Maybe some in the last two weeks which I chalked up to being sick of losing. 

He had a strong start, then he cooled off, and then he was pretty steady despite the constant line juggling, and the poorly coached power play, and playing in front of a goalie who’s confidence was shot.  The team under Ruff played 3/4 of the season as if they didn’t know each other. Yet Peterka was a steady contributor.   
 

Edited 1 hour ago by Pimlach

[Weave]

6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

JJP was fine defensively, was a +2 team relative plus/minus.

You want to allow fewer goals?  Trade Quinn and Malenstyn, they were a combined -34!  

You completely wiffed on my use of the word defensive.

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I’m tired of the “Peterka is bad at defense” story.  He is 23, and he is a goal scorer, and an emerging star player.  

Peterka is bad at defense just like almost every other player that came up the Sabres development path.  Granato did not teach an NHL system, and Adams did not support his young players with his &hity methods of roster building.  

Peterka didn’t get along with Ruff.  Something happened. Oh well.   But I get the feeling Ruff is gone in a year and Peterka will be Sam Reinhart-lite on another team.   

Why did the coach ride JJP? It surely wasn’t because he was responding to what the coach/es were telling him. So an old school coach coached like an old school coach. Big freaking deal! The player couldn’t handle it. 
 

I’m not suggesting that JJP is a bad fellow. What’s obvious is that he wasn’t as receptive to coaching and as resilient as he needed to be. 
 

In the end, the player made it clear that he wanted out, and got out. He was traded for players that filled other needs. What this backwater franchise doesn’t need is lingering dissatisfaction in a room already filled with a lot of existing frustrations. 

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

JJP was fine defensively, was a +2 team relative plus/minus.

You want to allow fewer goals?  Trade Quinn and Malenstyn, they were a combined -34!  

Question. JJ Peterka was -1 on the season but Zach Benson was -2... who's a better defensive forward?

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

JJP was fine defensively, was a +2 team relative plus/minus.

You want to allow fewer goals?  Trade Quinn and Malenstyn, they were a combined -34!  

They did dump Cozens -13, and Lafferty -15... but somehow kept Bryson-9. They did dump Clifton's -6 and Kubel's -4

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Why did the coach ride JJP? It surely wasn’t because he was responding to what the coach/es were telling him. So an old school coach coached like an old school coach. Big freaking deal! The player couldn’t handle it. 
 

I’m not suggesting that JJP is a bad fellow. What’s obvious is that he wasn’t as receptive to coaching and as resilient as he needed to be. 
 

In the end, the player made it clear that he wanted out, and got out. He was traded for players that filled other needs. What this backwater franchise doesn’t need is lingering dissatisfaction in a room already filled with a lot of existing frustrations. 

Of note through all this...   Ruff called out TNT and Cozens as centers who weren't putting in the effort to play center last season. TNT got moved to wing. Cozens just continued playing center (I have a note that he started one game 11/1 vs. NYI on the wing before immediately going back to center). So JJP wasn't alone as a top 6 key scoring forward who wasn't playing his defensive role up to expectations.

The difference between them all is JJP had a choice - a smallish choice, but a choice nonetheless. TNT is under contract with reasonable big money, Cozens is already traded (also under big money). As an RFA, JJP's rights were owned for a couple more seasons, but he was not under contract this summer. He used that little leverage to say adios to this inept franchise.

If you were a player -- what would you do? Would you want to sign for 1 year to play it out all over again next summer, 2 years to UFA, or sign here long term? With this GM/Owner forever linked? Why? You're in the NHL -- you can play hockey and make (likely) more money elsewhere on a team without an internal cap, or with lower taxes and more palms if that's your thing. Or go be on a team trying to win.

(Or a team trying to tank, if that's your thing. Or pull a Skinner and go to the Sharks for sunshine and no playoff expectations.)

 

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

Good... gooooood...  your Sabreing has made you powerful!

[DarthEbriate]

18 hours ago, Thorny said:

Anakin remains loyal to the sabres. If not, you’re the enemy 

Jackikin Eichwalker did not stay loyal to the Sabres, however. He was seduced by the desire for victory, the Cup Side.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Of note through all this...   Ruff called out TNT and Cozens as centers who weren't putting in the effort to play center last season. TNT got moved to wing. Cozens just continued playing center (I have a note that he started one game 11/1 vs. NYI on the wing before immediately going back to center). So JJP wasn't alone as a top 6 key scoring forward who wasn't playing his defensive role up to expectations.

The difference between them all is JJP had a choice - a smallish choice, but a choice nonetheless. TNT is under contract with reasonable big money, Cozens is already traded (also under big money). As an RFA, JJP's rights were owned for a couple more seasons, but he was not under contract this summer. He used that little leverage to say adios to this inept franchise.

If you were a player -- what would you do? Would you want to sign for 1 year to play it out all over again next summer, 2 years to UFA, or sign here long term? With this GM/Owner forever linked? Why? You're in the NHL -- you can play hockey and make (likely) more money elsewhere on a team without an internal cap, or with lower taxes and more palms if that's your thing. Or go be on a team trying to win.

(Or a team trying to tank, if that's your thing. Or pull a Skinner and go to the Sharks for sunshine and no playoff expectations.)

 

Good... gooooood...  your Sabreing has made you powerful!

You make a keen observation that JJP wasn't singled out for criticism of one's play. Coaches critiques players and hold them accountable in a variety of ways. There is nothing abnormal about that. What's surprising to me is that the Sabres are rightly criticized for soft and irresponsible play. So when that issue is emphasized and there is an attempt to hold people accountable, there is a response by some that old-school coaching was not appropriate for this particular young player. That doesn't resonate with me. 

You are right that JJP had options that the other contractually bound players didn't have. So he exercised his prerogative; and so did the organization. The GM traded a discontented player for players that hopefully will help strengthen in other areas. That's the sports marketplace in practice. 

[dudacek]

It’s surprising how much this team has actually changed. Half the roster has played less than 80 games in blue and gold. Peyton Krebs has the 3rd-most experience as a Sabre.

Games played for Buffalo:

• Lyon 0
• Timmins 0
• Kesselring 0
• Doan 0
• Danforth 0
• Norris 3
• Kulich 63
• Zucker 73
• Malenstyn 76
• McLeod 79
• Byram 100
• Greenway 118
• Benson 146
• Luukkonen 155
• Quinn 178
• Samuelsson 212
• Power 242
• Bryson 254
• Tuch 281
• Krebs 283
• Thompson 407
• Dahlin 509

We talk about the culture being bad. I don’t think many of us include Thompson, Tuch and Dahlin in that, but those are the guys who logic dictates are the ones setting the culture.

Setting talent aside, who are the personalities setting the wrong tone in the room and how?

Specifically, on a culture level, who and how many need to be pruned?

Edited 7 hours ago by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

45 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It’s surprising how much this team has actually changed. Half the roster has played less than 80 games in blue and gold. Peyton Krebs has the 3rd-most experience as a Sabre.

Games played for Buffalo:

• Lyon 0
• Timmins 0
• Kesselring 0
• Doan 0
• Danforth 0
• Norris 3
• Kulich 63
• Zucker 73
• Malenstyn 76
• McLeod 79
• Byram 100
• Greenway 118
• Benson 146
• Luukkonen 155
• Quinn 178
• Samuelsson 212
• Power 242
• Bryson 254
• Tuch 281
• Krebs 283
• Thompson 407
• Dahlin 509

We talk about the culture being bad. I don’t think many of us include Thompson, Tuch and Dahlin in that, but those are the guys who logic dictates are the ones setting the culture.

Setting talent aside, who are the personalities setting the wrong tone in the room and how?

Specifically, on a culture level, who and how many need to be pruned?

If Jacob Bryson is your 2nd most games played on defense, you done ***** up. 

[French Collection]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

If Jacob Bryson is your 2nd most games played on defense, you done ***** up. 

Power should pass him this season but your point is well made.

A healthy Mule (yeah right) could close the gap.

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I’m tired of the “Peterka is bad at defense” story.  He is 23, and he is a goal scorer, and an emerging star player.  

Peterka is bad at defense just like almost every other player that came up the Sabres development path.  Granato did not teach an NHL system, and Adams did not support his young players with his &hity methods of roster building.  

Peterka didn’t get along with Ruff.  Something happened. Oh well.   But I get the feeling Ruff is gone in a year and Peterka will be Sam Reinhart-lite on another team.   

Old school @Pimlach has become a new aged coddler. What in the world is going on!!!🫣

[nfreeman]

Serious question:  wasn't it just like a week or 2 ago that the Sabres were crawling with young, talented, highly-drafted forwards (some of which were supposed to be consolation prizes for being forced to trade Eichel and Reinhart)?  But now there is a big hole in the top 6 and not enough offense?  

It kinda feels like when Botteril accumulated too many RHDs, then squandered them via terrible GMing, leaving a hole at RHD.

[DarthEbriate]

From upthread discussion: scoring less is fine if they also give up fewer goals. All acquisitions this offseason should combine to be at least a little better in the Goals Against department. How much better do they need to be?

Last season, if you were under 240 GA, you were in the playoffs (Calgary at 236 was out, and massive outlier Montreal at 261 was only team over 240 to make it).

The last 3 seasons, the Sabres have given up 2710, 2402, and 2368 shot against. They're improving! But the goaltending has been at best middle of the pack (16th) in team save percentage (.899% in 2023-24 when UPL was great the 2nd half). The team % I'm using includes ENG.

So, if the Sabres goaltending is at .900 (better than ever recently), they need to reduce their SA to 2288 to get down to 240 goals allowed.

That's carving an additional shot per game off what they allowed last year.  That's doable -- particularly if Byram-Dahlin is a tandem for another 500 minutes of ice time because their top pair from game 1.

But -- boxing out, tying up folks, forcing offside by standing up at the blue line, and occasionally wrecking someone for an easy puck win by your teammate -- would go a long way toward reducing high danger shots. Tick that save percentage up, and sub-240 GA is also realistic. Has any of our goalies ever had a great save %? UPL did a .917 in a 9-game stint in 2020-21. His .910 season isn't great and that was even with him playing fantastic for 3 straight months.

 

Possess the puck, reduce shots against (by over 100 to be safe), and reduce high danger chances against. Can this revised roster do that?

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  wasn't it just like a week or 2 ago that the Sabres were crawling with young, talented, highly-drafted forwards (some of which were supposed to be consolation prizes for being forced to trade Eichel and Reinhart)?  But now there is a big hole in the top 6 and not enough offense?  

It kinda feels like when Botteril accumulated too many RHDs, then squandered them via terrible GMing, leaving a hole at RHD.

Mittlestadt didn’t work out

Cozens didn’t work out

Peterka forced his way out

Quinn has yet to figure it out

Rosen will probably never figure it out.

Savoie was shown his way out.

Benson is 20, Kulich and Östlund are 21, Helenius 19.

Something something hatching chickens?

[DarthEbriate]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  wasn't it just like a week or 2 ago that the Sabres were crawling with young, talented, highly-drafted forwards (some of which were supposed to be consolation prizes for being forced to trade Eichel and Reinhart)?  But now there is a big hole in the top 6 and not enough offense?  

It kinda feels like when Botteril accumulated too many RHDs, then squandered them via terrible GMing, leaving a hole at RHD.

It's a seemingly ongoing thing: the GM/front office is only capable of "fixing" or at least focusing on one thing at a time rather than a complete holistic approach. This comes from the top and Darth Pegula the Wise's flavor of the month approach: Leino was great in one playoff series against us: get him!  Mittelstadt was great at the World Juniors for US: jump him up the board! Taylor Hall is going to make us contenders: get him! Fix the 4th line! We have Dahlin/Power/Muel all locked up long-term -- get all the RHDs!

Was Mrtka the best player available? He very well could be. Time will tell. Did the pick fill an organizational need? No, it added a potentially great player to an organizational surplus.

The future might very well be "Add scoring forwards!" but that is the most expensive to attain unless it's a sell-off-Skinner scenario.

[Warriorspikes51]

I don't see how this team finishes above 10th unless.... 4 players?  improve a substantial amount

starting in net 

[LGR4GM]

The Sabres have 10 defenders and 13 forwards that they have rights to from drafting. You need 14 forwards and 7 defenders on the NHL roster and Buffalo currently has 2 first overall defenders. Something to think about for the 2026 draft. 

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Mittlestadt didn’t work out

Cozens didn’t work out

Peterka forced his way out

Quinn has yet to figure it out

Rosen will probably never figure it out.

Savoie was shown his way out.

Benson is 20, Kulich and Östlund are 21, Helenius 19.

Something something hatching chickens?

And therein lies the risk of a rebuild solely focused on the draft.

 

Excellent word crafting btw.

Edited 3 hours ago by Weave

[Archie Lee]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

It’s surprising how much this team has actually changed. Half the roster has played less than 80 games in blue and gold. Peyton Krebs has the 3rd-most experience as a Sabre.

Games played for Buffalo:

• Lyon 0
• Timmins 0
• Kesselring 0
• Doan 0
• Danforth 0
• Norris 3
• Kulich 63
• Zucker 73
• Malenstyn 76
• McLeod 79
• Byram 100
• Greenway 118
• Benson 146
• Luukkonen 155
• Quinn 178
• Samuelsson 212
• Power 242
• Bryson 254
• Tuch 281
• Krebs 283
• Thompson 407
• Dahlin 509

We talk about the culture being bad. I don’t think many of us include Thompson, Tuch and Dahlin in that, but those are the guys who logic dictates are the ones setting the culture.

Setting talent aside, who are the personalities setting the wrong tone in the room and how?

Specifically, on a culture level, who and how many need to be pruned?

 

I think this is looking in the wrong place.

Q: Who are the personalities setting the wrong tone? 

A: Pegula, Adams, and Ruff.

Q: How are Pegula, Adams, and Ruff setting the wrong tone?

A: They are the worst owner, GM, HC combination in the NHL.

- Pegula has never made the playoffs in a full-season as an NHL owner; 14 years and counting.

- Adams has not make the playoffs in 5 years as a GM. No GM in the post-expansion era (since 1967) has started his career going 0 for 5 in making the playoffs with the same team, and then gone on to have success with that team. Only one went on to eventually be known as a good GM; Don Waddell redeemed himself in Carolina.   

- Ruff is the oldest coach in the NHL. He finished third in the Athletic's Coach I Would Not Want to Play For poll last year. He has made the playoffs once in his last 6 seasons as a head coach, posting a .444 winning %. In the 5 of those years that his team missed the playoffs, his team's average position in goals against is 28th.

There is nothing that can be done about Pegula.  Let's hope he finds a way to do a better job hiring the next GM.

If there is a culture issue among the players, it is related to the failures of the men in charge. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

- Ruff is the oldest coach in the NHL. He finished third in the Athletic's Coach I Would Not Want to Play For poll last year. He has made the playoffs once in his last 6 seasons as a head coach, posting a .444 winning %. In the 5 of those years that his team missed the playoffs, his team's average position in goals against is 28th.

It's sad, because we all like him and he has been a good coach (when Hasek/Miller). But current-day Ruff was not getting rehired anywhere else in the league. Pegula got him hired as the sole interviewee, competing against the only other option: Appert.

The good news is that Ruff's previous two overachieving -- playoff guaranteed rosters -- were in his third season as coach (109-point season with Dallas; 112-point season with NJ).

The bad news is that Ruff is only under contract for two seasons here. But I'm sure Appert will do fine next season.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

 

I think this is looking in the wrong place.

Q: Who are the personalities setting the wrong tone? 

A: Pegula, Adams, and Ruff.

Q: How are Pegula, Adams, and Ruff setting the wrong tone?

A: They are the worst owner, GM, HC combination in the NHL.

- Pegula has never made the playoffs in a full-season as an NHL owner; 14 years and counting.

- Adams has not make the playoffs in 5 years as a GM. No GM in the post-expansion era (since 1967) has started his career going 0 for 5 in making the playoffs with the same team, and then gone on to have success with that team. Only one went on to eventually be known as a good GM; Don Waddell redeemed himself in Carolina.   

- Ruff is the oldest coach in the NHL. He finished third in the Athletic's Coach I Would Not Want to Play For poll last year. He has made the playoffs once in his last 6 seasons as a head coach, posting a .444 winning %. In the 5 of those years that his team missed the playoffs, his team's average position in goals against is 28th.

There is nothing that can be done about Pegula.  Let's hope he finds a way to do a better job hiring the next GM.

If there is a culture issue among the players, it is related to the failures of the men in charge. 

There really is no hope

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why did the coach ride JJP? It surely wasn’t because he was responding to what the coach/es were telling him. So an old school coach coached like an old school coach. Big freaking deal! The player couldn’t handle it. 
 

I’m not suggesting that JJP is a bad fellow. What’s obvious is that he wasn’t as receptive to coaching and as resilient as he needed to be. 
 

In the end, the player made it clear that he wanted out, and got out. He was traded for players that filled other needs. What this backwater franchise doesn’t need is lingering dissatisfaction in a room already filled with a lot of existing frustrations. 

So keep trading the best players and hope for the best???? 

I was told by a trusted hockey man, one still coaching in the NHL,  that the first guy to replace Granato was going to have a tough time.   Peterka didn't respond to Ruff.  Cozens fell apart.  Samuelsson fell apart.  Quinn regressed.  UPL regressed.  All players that were not blocked and were part of the master plan.  

I get it, Peterka was unhappy.  I am not sold on the exhaustive coaching search that Adams talked about.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

 

I think this is looking in the wrong place.

Q: Who are the personalities setting the wrong tone? 

A: Pegula, Adams, and Ruff.

Q: How are Pegula, Adams, and Ruff setting the wrong tone?

A: They are the worst owner, GM, HC combination in the NHL.

- Pegula has never made the playoffs in a full-season as an NHL owner; 14 years and counting.

- Adams has not make the playoffs in 5 years as a GM. No GM in the post-expansion era (since 1967) has started his career going 0 for 5 in making the playoffs with the same team, and then gone on to have success with that team. Only one went on to eventually be known as a good GM; Don Waddell redeemed himself in Carolina.   

- Ruff is the oldest coach in the NHL. He finished third in the Athletic's Coach I Would Not Want to Play For poll last year. He has made the playoffs once in his last 6 seasons as a head coach, posting a .444 winning %. In the 5 of those years that his team missed the playoffs, his team's average position in goals against is 28th.

There is nothing that can be done about Pegula.  Let's hope he finds a way to do a better job hiring the next GM.

If there is a culture issue among the players, it is related to the failures of the men in charge. 

..... and somehow people are blaming JJP for wanting out of the cesspool the three horseman for franchise destruction created. 

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

So keep trading the best players and hope for the best???? 

I was told by a trusted hockey man, one still coaching in the NHL,  that the first guy to replace Granato was going to have a tough time.   Peterka didn't respond to Ruff.  Cozens fell apart.  Samuelsson fell apart.  Quinn regressed.  UPL regressed.  All players that were not blocked and were part of the master plan.  

I get it, Peterka was unhappy.  I am not sold on the exhaustive coaching search that Adams talked about.  

There was no real search for a coach. It was a flimsy charade. The owner selected whom he wanted to select. The owner again went with his nostalgic impulse. A third- rate owner  acting like a third- rate owner. No surprise. The surprise would have been he having serious coaching search.