Trade : Conor Timmins and Isaac Belliveau from the Pittsburgh Penguins in exchange for Connor Clifton and the 39th overall pick in the 2025 NHL Draft.

[LGR4GM]

Again, I'm not predicting playoffs. I'm not defending Adams. I'm just saying there's been a few moves. 

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Cozens hasn't played well in 2 full years. 

Norris isn't the key addition. He's just one of the additions and arguing he's not is bizarre. 

Ya the last time we eclipsed 90 points. Where exactly are you getting lost, here? Presumably the goal is to field a team that’s actually good

Isn’t Norris supposed to be our 2C, at LEAST next season? He sure as hell *better* be a key addition dude or we ain’t making any noise 

It’s not even a matter of opinion - Norris being a key addition is functionally worked into any success of Adams’ plan 

Your stance is bizarre 

You get too hung up trying to contradict me for sport and it gets you into trouble 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya the last time we eclipsed 90 points. Where exactly are you getting lost, here? Presumably the goal is to field a team that’s actually good

Isn’t Norris supposed to be our 2C, at LEAST next season? He sure as hell *better* be a key addition dude or we ain’t making any noise 

It’s not even a matter of opinion - Norris being a key addition is functionally worked into any success of Adams’ plan 

Your stance is bizarre 

You get too hung up trying to contradict me for sport and it gets you into trouble 

This didn't even start with you. I listed what we added, that's it.

Has nothing to do with you. 

You then went on a rant about how 2022 Cozens was being replaced by 2025 Norris and I'm guessing that doesn't move the needle for you. There's a bunch of Adams hate in there as though I'm defending in and now it's "oh you're only posting to contradict me" lol 

[dudacek]

41 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The jets spend every year, they’ll get there before the season starts as will most of these teams. We are the ones with the track record to not 

No dispute over the track records.

I’m not sure what you mean by “get there” you expect a majority of the teams below the Sabres to be close to the cap when all is said and done come October?

I honestly don’t see how that’s possible.

The figure might be dated but Allan Walsh recently said there is $275M left under the cap.

Puckpedia says there are 29 roster spots left to fill. That’s nearly $10M per roster spot.

The shopping aisles are empty. Teams have room but no one to spend it on.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This didn't even start with you. I listed what we added, that's it.

Has nothing to do with you. 

You then went on a rant about how 2022 Cozens was being replaced by 2025 Norris and I'm guessing that doesn't move the needle for you. There's a bunch of Adams hate in there as though I'm defending in and now it's "oh you're only posting to contradict me" lol 

I’m just teasing you, relax

im not saying you are defending Adams. I definitely do disagree with you that Norris isn’t viewed as the key “addition”, though, along with Kesselring 

I can only see a whopping level of faith in the lad when I look at the F group and the lack of moves and also the subtraction there we saw 

Edited 7 hours ago by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

No dispute over the track records.

I’m not sure what you mean by “get there” you expect a majority of the teams below the Sabres to be close to the cap when all is said and done come October?

I honestly don’t see how that’s possible.

The figure might be dated but Allan Walsh recently said there is $275M left under the cap.

Puckpedia says there are 29 roster spots left to fill. That’s nearly $10M per roster spot.

The shopping aisles are empty. Teams have room but no one to spend it on.

I think the cap went up, free agency dried up, and teams are still in that area of "cap isn't going up"

They psyched themselves out 

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

No dispute over the track records.

I’m not sure what you mean by “get there” you expect a majority of the teams below the Sabres to be close to the cap when all is said and done come October?

I honestly don’t see how that’s possible.

The figure might be dated but Allan Walsh recently said there is $275M left under the cap.

Puckpedia says there are 29 roster spots left to fill. That’s nearly $10M per roster spot.

The shopping aisles are empty. Teams have room but no one to spend it on.

Isn’t Vilardi unsigned over here in the peg? Latest projection i saw was 7.5 mil

Add in samberg and kupari to vilardi and they’ll be adding another ~ 15 mil 

so they should get to ~ 3 mil on space remaining. Think we are on track for about 5

Edited 7 hours ago by Thorny

[tom webster]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I think the cap went up, free agency dried up, and teams are still in that area of "cap isn't going up"

They psyched themselves out 

I think there is more to it than that. The top teams were able to keep their guys or add because of the riding cap and other teams smartly decided against spending money just to spend money. The movement of the cap is going to result in the most “have” and “have not” era of the NHL since the cap was implemented. I’d have to do a little research but I’ll bet since the pandemic the same twelve to thirteen teams have made the playoffs every year and the rising cap along with players stupidly signing long term contracts will allow this model to sustain itself for at least two more years.

[Thorny]

Hard out there for a pimp, I guess

especially if your pimp’s name is Kevyn Adams 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Isn’t Vilardi unsigned over here in the peg? Latest projection i saw was 7.5 mil

 

Yep. Samberg too.

Hughes in New Jersey, McTavish in Anaheim, there are a few RFAs on the market that are going get good coin.

But they’re the exception. Most of the signings are going to be Roslovics or Timmins types getting those types of salaries.

And it’s not just the teams behind the Sabres who have space. 22 teams have $2M or more to spend.

opening day caps aren’t going to look anything like we’re used to

 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yep. Samberg too.

Hughes in New Jersey, McTavish in Anaheim, there are a few RFAs on the market that are going get good coin.

But they’re the exception. Most of the signings are going to be Roslovics or Timmins types getting those types of salaries.

And it’s not just the teams behind the Sabres who have space. 22 teams have $2M or more to spend.

opening day caps aren’t going to look anything like we’re used to

 

It angers me there’s such a built in excuse for Adams 

We never spend, weren’t going to this year, regardless

And here it is 

Christmas Day for plausible deniability: their greatest strength 

Vomit 

Catches breath 

Vomit 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Isn’t Vilardi unsigned over here in the peg? Latest projection i saw was 7.5 mil

Add in samberg and kupari to vilardi and they’ll be adding another ~ 15 mil 

so they should get to ~ 3 mil on space remaining. Think we are on track for about 5

Isn't that a Dean Martin song?

 

 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Isn't that a Dean Martin song?

 

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6495b936-daf6-4271-a3c4-425622f872ce

youll have to click 

Edited 7 hours ago by Thorny

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I think there is more to it than that. The top teams were able to keep their guys or add because of the riding cap and other teams smartly decided against spending money just to spend money. The movement of the cap is going to result in the most “have” and “have not” era of the NHL since the cap was implemented. I’d have to do a little research but I’ll bet since the pandemic the same twelve to thirteen teams have made the playoffs every year and the rising cap along with players stupidly signing long term contracts will allow this model to sustain itself for at least two more years.

Marner and Ehlers and Bennett and Ekblad are so far below what an open market would have dictated this summer it’s scary.

Players arent chasing the money, they’re chasing the lifestyle and the have-nots are in even more trouble than even palm trees can fix

Edited 7 hours ago by dudacek

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Marner and Ehlers and Bennett and Ekblad are so far below what an open market would have dictated this summer it’s scary.

Players arent chasing the money, they’re chasing the lifestyle and the have-nots are in even more trouble than even palm trees can fix

Can you imagine how screwed this franchise would be if we had any sort of reasonable expectation? Their apparent handcuffs in fielding a cup winning team are notable - I can admit that

but its so, so far neither here nor there. If there’s one thing they sabres have been successful at aside from plausible deniability it’s successfully lowering expectations and the bar for success.

the saving grace, our beloved excuse annihilator, is the fact we are only asking for a solitary playoff appearance and even the bad teams do that 

it’s still right there for them..we haven’t all left yet 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It angers me there’s such a built in excuse for Adams 

We never spend, weren’t going to this year, regardless

And here it is 

Christmas Day for plausible deniability: their greatest strength 

Vomit 

Catches breath 

Vomit 

Adams catches ***** for all his premature long-term deals, but in retrospect his failure wasn’t the contracts but some of the players he gave them too - evaluation or development.

Because have-nots need to get them tied up when they’re young and idealistic if they want any hope of getting off the treadmill of being the Pittsburgh Pirates

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6495b936-daf6-4271-a3c4-425622f872ce

youll have to click 

Momma taught me never to click on strange links. 

[Thorny]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Momma taught me never to click on strange links. 

I’m a human being dude I’m not going to send you a virus. It’s just a clip from big bang theory anyways 

You know you can trust me 

[mjd1001]

28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You then went on a rant about how 2022 Cozens was being replaced by 2025 Norris 

2022 Dylan Cozens wasn't all that great.  Just like the other years of his career, he hurt the team more than he helped it. 

He was a negative player. Looking into deep stats, The Corsi of the team was CONSIDERABLY worse when he was on the ice compared to when anyone else was on the ice. Fenwick was worse with him compared to the rest of the team. Same for Shots for. Same for actual goals for (despite his 30 goal season, the team still allowed more goals when he was on the ice than when he wasn't.) Same for High danger chances. Same for high danger goals for/allowed.  He had a limited impact on the PP (5 goals were the most he ever scored on it in a season, but that isn't all that great considering he was on pretty much every powerplay).  He brought the PK down (they allowed goals short handed about 20% more per minute when he was on the ice vs when he wasn't).

We saw 'hope' in him, and he personally scored 31 goals, but even then, his best season, he net-net hurt the team.  The rest of the team, average them out, even the 4th liners and 3rd pair D-men, had better analytics, and allowed less goals, when he was off the ice rather than when he was on the ice with them.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m a human being dude I’m not going to send you a virus. It’s just a clip from big bang theory anyways 

You know you can trust me 

[Thorny]

 

[thewookie1]

54 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Can you imagine how screwed this franchise would be if we had any sort of reasonable expectation? Their apparent handcuffs in fielding a cup winning team are notable - I can admit that

but its so, so far neither here nor there. If there’s one thing they sabres have been successful at aside from plausible deniability it’s successfully lowering expectations and the bar for success.

the saving grace, our beloved excuse annihilator, is the fact we are only asking for a solitary playoff appearance and even the bad teams do that 

it’s still right there for them..we haven’t all left yet 

@Brawndo mentions we talked to a candidate for replacing Wilford but he turned us down. 
 

Could the franchise honestly be trying but be effectively getting stonewalled at every opportunity while also being too incompetent to find a way out of the mess. 
 

This isn’t to say Adams is innocent; he needed to be fired last year during December’s spiral, but could it be possible his smug/self-righteous persona that emerged is a sign that he’s trying, getting denied then being ridiculed by the media about it constantly. I do honestly wish we could know how much of our issues are self-inflicted versus environmental and or out of our control.

[Rasmus_]

I still don't like the trade.  JBD, is a better defensemen.   But, I'll give it a chance, as he did show up in Pittsburgh.  But, it's such a small sample size.   

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

@Brawndo mentions we talked to a candidate for replacing Wilford but he turned us down. 
 

Could the franchise honestly be trying but be effectively getting stonewalled at every opportunity while also being too incompetent to find a way out of the mess. 
 

This isn’t to say Adams is innocent; he needed to be fired last year during December’s spiral, but could it be possible his smug/self-righteous persona that emerged is a sign that he’s trying, getting denied then being ridiculed by the media about it constantly. I do honestly wish we could know how much of our issues are self-inflicted versus environmental and or out of our control.

Yes, @Brawndo said they were turned down by one potential Wilford replacement and he also said something about they looked into 1 other possible coach change candidate but personally don't recall any details of that one.

BUT there can't possibly be only 2 available coaches out there this spring/summer that would be better than Marty friggin' Wilford.  And, while technically talking to 2 people that aren't currently in the organization IS in fact "trying," doubt anybody here would have considered that to be even close to acceptable on stall cleanout day.

Bob Woods was (and afaik still is) available.  He is a master at designing and running a PP.  Going after him should've been a no brainer.

The team IMHO is SLIGHTLY better than it was prior to making the Cozens trade.  Bring in another vet or 2 and it would be marginally but perceptibly better on paper.  Make 2 - 5 coaching changes and the team would be ACTUALLY better than they were at that point in time.  

Edited 5 hours ago by Taro T

[thewookie1]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yes, @Brawndo said they were turned down by one potential Wilford replacement and he also said something about they looked into 1 other possible coach change candidate but personally don't recall any details of that one.

BUT there can't possibly be only 2 available coaches out there this spring/summer that would be better than Marty friggin' Wilford.  And, while technically talking to 2 people that aren't currently in the organization IS in fact "trying," doubt anybody here would have considered that to be even close to acceptable on stall cleanout day.

Bob Woods was (and afaik still is) available.  He is a master at designing and running a PP.  Going after him should've been a no brainer.

The team IMHO is SLIGHTLY better than it was prior to making the Cozens trade.  Bring in another vet or 2 and it would be marginally but perceptibly better on paper.  Make 2 - 5 coaching changes and the team would be ACTUALLY better than they were at that point in time.  

That’s where I don’t excuse them.

It’s like the best they are willing to do is give it the old college try.

Either that or they refuse to upgrade small, only large. Essentially Pegula won’t sign off on new lucrative contracts and dead contracts if the change is negligible.