Hockey Heaven? what the Sabres are competing with

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

But even without the losing that was the good old days as you say. Now with teams with tons of money in places like Tampa and Miami, and even Carolina,  Dallas, etc., and with state of the art facilities, those are no longer vacation spots but where players are able to live. 

Add to that the fact that Florida (Texas is the same deal) has no state income tax and if you are signing a quality player he’s going to be in the 10% state tax range for NY. So at minimum you are going to have to beat an offer from teams in those states over 10% higher just to be even.
 

To say nothing of the facilities and lifestyle. There is just no way to compete unless Pegula puts the kind of effort into the Sabres org that he has into the Bills org. Both facilities and management. As it is he treats the Sabres like a step child he has to tolerate. 

Bull. Winnipeg signs players. Nobody is ever going to convince me that Winnipeg is a better spot than Buffalo. I've been to both. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

It's a proven reality.  Remember when a lot of us thought players would want to play with McDavid or Eichel - and we needed a star?  

TP put money into the organization and we started hosting the combined etc.  It didn't work to get players.  TP has tried plenty conceivable things to create a spark.  It hasn't worked.  

Buffalo is a place that critically relies on drafting talent and trading. Then hoping the draft picks develop and some of them and any traded players grow to like the City.  That also hasn't worked.  

What you describe is what they do, but I say it's a self fulfilling prophecy. If the team was committed to winning and had a good culture it would be a fine destination same as most places. We don't though. We are not a serious franchise. 

[7+6=13]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

It literally worked to get players. Do y'all just get amnesia about the ufas we sign?

What worked?

[7+6=13]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

What you describe is what they do, but I say it's a self fulfilling prophecy. If the team was committed to winning and had a good culture it would be a fine destination same as most places. We don't though. We are not a serious franchise. 

I just don't believe, nor think it's factual that the majority of TP's ownership, there has not been a commitment to win.  

I actually think he over committed at times and that didn't work. The last few years, IMO, have been a reset (lack of a better term) because of the financial over commitment.

[Pimlach]

Florida’s facility is great, awesome, and probably in a league of its own. Reminds me of the Bills facility, which looks much bigger and better than Floridas and includes an indoor practice field for winter.  

Harbor Center was pretty nice at one time and still is in good repair and probably could be expanded into some of the other levels.   The Sabres dressing room was already refreshed to one of the tops in the league when Pegula took over. 

In the 70’s and 80’s the Sabres were a good destination for many players.  The team was always in the playoffs, the Aud was always packed, and players did not avoid Buffalo, lots of players lived in Buffalo for many years and a bunch still do.  Anyone who thinks otherwise was not close to the team back then.   

JUST START WINNING.  Veteran Free Agent players want to win.  If you’re not a winning team they won’t sign unless it’s for a big paycheck.  The action, or inaction, of the Sabres ownership and their FO is telling the hockey world that the Sabres do not know how to win and are not trying to win - probably both. 

[Big Guava]

Well, they are competing against the Bandits for fanbase and losing badly 

Edited 15 hours ago by Big Guava

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

I just don't believe, nor think it's factual that the majority of TP's ownership, there has not been a commitment to win.  

I actually think he over committed at times and that didn't work. The last few years, IMO, have been a reset (lack of a better term) because of the financial over commitment.

Well that's not exactly what I'm saying. I think TP THINKS he is committed to winning but he's set in his ideas regardless of the evidence to show how flawed it is. People outside Buffalo however see what they do, how they spend, who they hire and don't hire and they don't see it as a real serious commitment to winning. Terry has to turn over the top decisions to a hockey voice like Dudley or this will just continue . 

[Demoted]

On 5/23/2025 at 5:01 PM, mjd1001 said:

Maybe this was discussed already, the video is a year old, but I just saw it and found it interesting.

Make the jokes about Palm trees, but when you consider Buffalo is Buffalo, the Sabres need to do BETTER than other teams to get players to want to come here/stay here.

After watching this video...how much more do the Sabres have to pay someone vs a team like Florida (or the other teams that are doing stuff like this) just to be on even gound?

 

Let's not forget the taxes are better in Florida for the players also.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Demoted said:

Let's not forget the taxes are better in Florida for the players also.

I heard they have palm trees in Florida. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

Who are we competing with you say. 

 

We have our answer.... 

[Pimlach]

So Pegula was ahead of his time with Harbor Center then?  

Do teams like Boston, Montreal, Detroit and Toronto have anything even as nice as Harbor Center? 

Maybe Pegula or Gueli will look at what Florida has and consider a Harbor Center upgrade/expansion since they already have a nice facility downtown and right next to the Arena and they can expand the facilities upward or nearby.   

I still think showing a real commitment to winning and then actually winning and  getting into the tournament is the only way.  

[mjd1001]

20 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Why would Buffalo have golf cart parking? 

Players don't become ufas until 26, if Buffalo were winning, ppl would come here. This is just a distraction. 

Can't disagree more.

Why would buffalo have golf cart parking? That is part of the issue, it really can't.  Its not the fault of the area but its something that guys like..park their car outside, have golf cars to take around an entire complex.

If you don't see that its not an issue that Buffalo can't have it...but that others DO have features like that and players WANT that, then I can't help you.

And yes, more players would come here if the team was winning, but its more than a distraction. For you to say its only a distraction is wishful thinking.    If Buffalo was 'winning' and a team like Florida is 'winning' at the same level year after year....and a bunch of player were considering where to sign....when its a close decision, the ammenities that other places have that Buffalo does not can sway that decision.

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

So Pegula was ahead of his time with Harbor Center then?  

Do teams like Boston, Montreal, Detroit and Toronto have anything even as nice as Harbor Center? 

Maybe Pegula or Gueli will look at what Florida has and consider a Harbor Center upgrade/expansion since they already have a nice facility downtown and right next to the Arena and they can expand the facilities upward or nearby.   

I still think showing a real commitment to winning and then actually winning and  getting into the tournament is the only way.  

He was ahead of his time, sure, but the necessary follow-through was not there. 

If he did what he did, and the team was a consistent winner for the next 5-10 years, the momentum would have continued. The fact that they squandered the next 10+ years after allowed other teams to catch-up (and pass) what he did in short order.

 

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

The Sabres don't even need to look at the NHL for who is their competition.

 A Lacrosse league in their own CITY is running laps around this NHL organization.

If that does not sound off the alarms nothing will.

[Pimlach]

13 minutes ago, Palm Trees And Taxes said:

The Sabres don't even need to look at the NHL for who is their competition.

 A Lacrosse league in their own CITY is running laps around this NHL organization.

If that does not sound off the alarms nothing will.

I’ll be spending most of the summer in Buffalo again and I want to point out that I see more Bandits tee shirts and hats than I do Sabres.   People wearing Sabres gear are becoming more scarce.    

The Bills dominate all of the sports talk and the merch market by a huge margin.   

Thankfully they are lots of young kids playing ice hockey which is the future fan base of the Sabres if they survive. Yet, I see the league changing and hockey popularity spreading to the south and west and I don’t think the Sabres can survive another 5 years unless things change and they become competitive once again.  

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Can't disagree more.

Why would buffalo have golf cart parking? That is part of the issue, it really can't.  Its not the fault of the area but its something that guys like..park their car outside, have golf cars to take around an entire complex.

If you don't see that its not an issue that Buffalo can't have it...but that others DO have features like that and players WANT that, then I can't help you.

And yes, more players would come here if the team was winning, but its more than a distraction. For you to say its only a distraction is wishful thinking.    If Buffalo was 'winning' and a team like Florida is 'winning' at the same level year after year....and a bunch of player were considering where to sign....when its a close decision, the ammenities that other places have that Buffalo does not can sway that decision.

He was ahead of his time, sure, but the necessary follow-through was not there. 

If he did what he did, and the team was a consistent winner for the next 5-10 years, the momentum would have continued. The fact that they squandered the next 10+ years after allowed other teams to catch-up (and pass) what he did in short order.

 

You know what else can sway decisions? Family. Housing. Things that happen away from golf carts. I think it's ludicrous to say needing a golf cart to drive around facilities is somehow some magic benefit. 

Fun fact, the University of Georgia built their new field house and weight lifting facilities on top of each other so they weren't wasting time being bused around. Anyways... Buffalo has good facilities. They have 3 ice rinks next to each other. The Players have a lounge area. They have expanded recovery areas. Is it the best in the league? No, but it's better than quite a few places. If it was so ***** why would anyone sign here ever? Okposo, Hall, Moulson, Ehrhoff, Zucker, Dahlin, Thompson? Eichel? Why sign here if it's so ***** compared to Florida? 

[LGR4GM]

I haven't even mentioned the public school, insurance, or government in Florida. Gotta tell ya, if I'm a Canadian hockey player with a wife and want a family, ain't doing that in Florida even if their facilities are the best on the planet. 

The problem with these arguments is they assume almost all players value X the same when we know they don't. 

[oddoublee]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I haven't even mentioned the public school, insurance, or government in Florida. Gotta tell ya, if I'm a Canadian hockey player with a wife and want a family, ain't doing that in Florida even if their facilities are the best on the planet. 

The problem with these arguments is they assume almost all players value X the same when we know they don't. 

I've lived in western NY, Florida and Ohio. You are underestimating just how expensive WNY is overall - and you're overestimating the value WNY brings in education, insurance and especially government. Ohio and Florida are lapping NY right now....and it breaks my heart. Maybe 20 years ago it was close...but it no longer is. 

[JoeSchmoe]

I've long maintained that the Sabres should have amenities that cater to wives and families so that they build the sort of culture that once they're here, it'll make them more inclined to stay, preferably at a discount.

Buy a ski house in Ellicottville, a nice big boat and/or boat house on Lake Erie... This is for all the players and their families to share, and to get to know each other.

Hopefully bonds are built to the point where they feel better about putting down roots in the area and potentially signing at a home town discount.

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

I've lived in western NY, Florida and Ohio. You are underestimating just how expensive WNY is overall - and you're overestimating the value WNY brings in education, insurance and especially government. Ohio and Florida are lapping NY right now....and it breaks my heart. Maybe 20 years ago it was close...but it no longer is. 

Yea and I lived in Georgia so I'm well aware of the differences. 

Couldn't pay me to live in Florida though. 

[LGR4GM]

My point isn't to crap on Florida, the point is that different players will value different things. 

[tom webster]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

My point isn't to crap on Florida, the point is that different players will value different things. 

It’s still funny to me that some people don’t understand this.

[PerreaultForever]

41 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea and I lived in Georgia so I'm well aware of the differences. 

Couldn't pay me to live in Florida though. 

A lot of them don't actually live there. Their off season homes are somewhere else entirely.