On the DG interview today

[Mango]

My immediate follow up to this would be "You lost to the worst team in the league 9-4 at home. What is the locker rooms preferred reaction from fans after a game like that?"

or

"Even Josh Allen hears boo's occasionally and one of the first things he said this offseason was "I never want to play for anybody else. My number one goal is to bring a championship to Buffalo". Can you help explain the lack of resolve in this locker room compared to your local compatriots?"

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

Can you help explain the lack of resolve in this locker room compared to your local compatriots?"

That one is easy.  Too many kids and not enough hardened vets.  The kids don’t know how to turn it around and the few grey beards we have are past their ability to carry the load.

As everything else infecting the Sabres, it rests with the GMs plan.  Gamble that leaving the goalie situation unchanged will work out, that adding another retirement age vet will work out, that the kids at forward  will figure it out themselves.  

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

That one is easy.  Too many kids and not enough hardened vets.  The kids don’t know how to turn it around and the few grey beards we have are past their ability to carry the load.

As everything else infecting the Sabres, it rests with the GMs plan.  Gamble that leaving the goalie situation unchanged will work out, that adding another retirement age vet will work out, that the kids at forward  will figure it out themselves.  

I think you are both right and giving this too much credit. Also Allen has been getting boo's since his rookie year. 

You don't have to be a vet to try hard/not give up. 

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

The amount of hatred that has been directed their way and this surprises you?

I think Sabrespace feels like it has been shouting into the wind at this franchise for so long, it’s lost perspective on what it is actually putting out there right now, and that people are actually listening.

I’ve been here for the entire dark era - through far worse and more uncaring teams - and I don’t ever remember it feeling this personal. I think it’s far more of a reaction to the entire disastrous Pegula era than it is about these players, but they are paying big-time for the organization making us actually feel hope in September.

The fanbase may have turned on this franchise because of a decade of truly horrible hockey, but it turned on this particular group of players after less than 3 months of mediocrity. And, in my view, has treated them with a degree of disdain that far outstrips what their actual play and effort warrants.

What Donnie is saying is that in the past year or two, a number of players made a long-term good-faith commitment to fix this. And they did it not ‘in spite of the city being a dump” but because they believed in Kevyn Adams story of this wonderful city and fanbase and group of players who could build something special together.

But I know most of you just want to be mad and I’m the one shouting into the wind. It’s not really about the hockey on here anymore; we’ve given up on talking about that. It's just win, and ***** off until you do.

You guys may be entitled to your rage, and it’s clear you feel entitled to it, but that should not make you oblivious to its repercussions.

Some very good observations and comments.  Some bad ones too 

To be clear, I have no hatred towards this group.  I even defend them - Power, Cozens, EJ, Zemgus, etc - it’s documented all over here.  I don’t boo, never have, but I don’t hear any boos that aren’t deserved either.  

I was ok with being a loyal Sabres fan and just accepting another losing season when all of a sudden the Harrington article hits the BN.  

The Secret Veteran interview rubs me wrong, why secret?  The veteran leaders side with the young millionaires who don’t like the coach being booed.  In Boston, the fans are right when they boo, their coach and their captain just said so.  Yet in Buffalo it’s different.  

It hurts their feelings to hear boos, that’s what our coach and captain have to say about it.  Look at the standings.  What do Boston fans have to complain about?  Marchand said they have the right to cheer or boo.  Such a progressive city, people exercising freedoms and all that stuff.  

 Granato tells us that the players feelings are hurt, and some signed extensions.  I have a hard time understanding why a coach of a professional sports team would tell us that.   Do they want to void the contracts now?  Are they not men?   Are they not professional hockey players?  

Is the fan base supposed to carry guilt now?    Should we feel bad?  

I wish I didn’t know about any of this.  I thought the franchise was heading up.  I just commented on off years happening in a rebuild (see Detroit last year).  Now I’m not sure about the direction of this team any more. 

[Mango]

10 hours ago, French Collection said:

He’s right, the fans booed a poor effort. They pay good money to be entertained and see through a weak effort.

I hate losing, always have but I can handle it if everything was left out on the ice. Hard work buys a lot of leeway in my books and I wouldn’t be surprised that a lot of Sabres fans feel the same way.

The Sabres coming out not ready and falling behind nearly every game is on DG and the players. I like DG but this country club atmosphere has to end. KA not making any significant moves has just blown any chance to turn this season around. That started in the summer.

Hey Sabres, want to stop the boos, play harder and win a few more games. At the very least, take more games to OT, for the points and to give the fans a little more entertainment.

I had more fun watching last years team than I have in a decade. The bar is so low for me with this team right now. Play good, fun, entertaining, try-hard hockey and I can live with 90 point seasons for a while. 

This year is one of, if not the most disappointing year in the Pegula era. 

[Mango]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

The amount of hatred that has been directed their way and this surprises you?

I think Sabrespace feels like it has been shouting into the wind at this franchise for so long, it’s lost perspective on what it is actually putting out there right now, and that people are actually listening.

I’ve been here for the entire dark era - through far worse and more uncaring teams - and I don’t ever remember it feeling this personal. I think it’s far more of a reaction to the entire disastrous Pegula era than it is about these players, but they are paying big-time for the organization making us actually feel hope in September.

The fanbase may have turned on this franchise because of a decade of truly horrible hockey, but it turned on this particular group of players after less than 3 months of mediocrity. And, in my view, has treated them with a degree of disdain that far outstrips what their actual play and effort warrants.

What Donnie is saying is that in the past year or two, a number of players made a long-term good-faith commitment to fix this. And they did it not ‘in spite of the city being a dump” but because they believed in Kevyn Adams story of this wonderful city and fanbase and group of players who could build something special together.

But I know most of you just want to be mad and I’m the one shouting into the wind. It’s not really about the hockey on here anymore; we’ve given up on talking about that. It's just win, and ***** off until you do.

You guys may be entitled to your rage, and it’s clear you feel entitled to it, but that should not make you oblivious to its repercussions.

You can zoom in and out as much as you want to find a lot of frustration with this franchise.  Pegula is terrible in his tenure. Adams and Granato are the worst among his peers in his tenure. This roster as it it exists in this season is on pace for another historically bad record. 
 

Pegula: 13 years....Nearly double the longest playoff streak in league history. Ruined this franchise. And that isn't hyperbole.
Adams: Longest tenured GM without a playoff appearance
Granato: Longest tenured HC without a playoff appearance. 
2023-24 Roster: The first Sabres team to not win 3 games in a row in a single season (sans shortened covid year). This might be an NHL first. I am about 1/3 of the way through the league and so far it is. 

[Mango]

28 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Some very good observations and comments.  Some bad ones too 

To be clear, I have no hatred towards this group.  I even defend them - Power, Cozens, EJ, Zemgus, etc - it’s documented all over here.  I don’t boo, never have, but I don’t hear any boos that aren’t deserved either.  

I was ok with being a loyal Sabres fan and just accepting another losing season when all of a sudden the Harrington article hits the BN.  

The Secret Veteran interview rubs me wrong, why secret?  The veteran leaders side with the young millionaires who don’t like the coach being booed.  In Boston, the fans are right when they boo, their coach and their captain just said so.  Yet in Buffalo it’s different.  

It hurts their feelings to hear boos, that’s what our coach and captain have to say about it.  Look at the standings.  What do Boston fans have to complain about?  Marchand said they have the right to cheer or boo.  Such a progressive city, people exercising freedoms and all that stuff.  

 Granato tells us that the players feelings are hurt, and some signed extensions.  I have a hard time understanding why a coach of a professional sports team would tell us that.   Do they want to void the contracts now?  Are they not men?   Are they not professional hockey players?  

Is the fan base supposed to carry guilt now?    Should we feel bad?  

I wish I didn’t know about any of this.  I thought the franchise was heading up.  I just commented on off years happening in a rebuild (see Detroit last year).  Now I’m not sure about the direction of this team any more. 

As much as these kids think they were defending their coach they likely cost him his job. 

As long as professional sports has existed any franchise can want to run it back as much as they want regardless of W/L until 1 of 2 things happen: 
1. They lose the locker room
2. They lose the fan base. 

By telling the Buffalo News they were turning on the last few people who actually show up to these games that they were punishing them they sealed the fate of one if not a couple people in that building/locker room. 

Congrats guys, the guy you wanted to keep so bad? He will be fired because you couldn't keep your mouth shut. 

[Night Train]

The plan to sit and make no roster moves after falling 1 game short failed. Looks like they'll finish 10-15 points short of a playoff spot this year.

Trying to tell the public all is well equates to telling us the sky is plaid. The press should just write their thoughts and skip the useless pressers. It's all nonsense. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

That one is easy.  Too many kids and not enough hardened vets.  The kids don’t know how to turn it around and the few grey beards we have are past their ability to carry the load.

As everything else infecting the Sabres, it rests with the GMs plan.  Gamble that leaving the goalie situation unchanged will work out, that adding another retirement age vet will work out, that the kids at forward  will figure it out themselves.  

Granato himself should have told the team to knock it off.  If the veterans guided them to the wrong decision, and they did, then they are the wrong veterans, and this should have been overturned by the coach.   The younger players just learned the wrong lesson and got away with the wrong behavior.  

If nothing else Adams should have ended all this salute bull crap as soon as he knew about it. There should have been no story outside the locker room.  
 

This is dysfunctional.   

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I know you guys hate Boston, but contrast his comments with this:

https://firstsportz.com/nhl-news-jim-montgomery-acknowledges-fans-booing/

The difference is part of what is fundamentally wrong with this franchise. 

Everybody that posts here should read this.  

Thanks for posting it.  I know I’m not crazy after all. 

[Shoot da Puck]

So our players are easily offended after a 75% effort

Go figure..

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I think you are both right and giving this too much credit. Also Allen has been getting boo's since his rookie year. 

You don't have to be a vet to try hard/not give up. 

Its not about try hard/give up.  It’s about being shown how and in what direction to expend the energy.

[SwampD]

Ugh.

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

The amount of hatred that has been directed their way and this surprises you?

I think Sabrespace feels like it has been shouting into the wind at this franchise for so long, it’s lost perspective on what it is actually putting out there right now, and that people are actually listening.

I’ve been here for the entire dark era - through far worse and more uncaring teams - and I don’t ever remember it feeling this personal. I think it’s far more of a reaction to the entire disastrous Pegula era than it is about these players, but they are paying big-time for the organization making us actually feel hope in September.

The fanbase may have turned on this franchise because of a decade of truly horrible hockey, but it turned on this particular group of players after less than 3 months of mediocrity. And, in my view, has treated them with a degree of disdain that far outstrips what their actual play and effort warrants.

What Donnie is saying is that in the past year or two, a number of players made a long-term good-faith commitment to fix this. And they did it not ‘in spite of the city being a dump” but because they believed in Kevyn Adams story of this wonderful city and fanbase and group of players who could build something special together.

But I know most of you just want to be mad and I’m the one shouting into the wind. It’s not really about the hockey on here anymore; we’ve given up on talking about that. It's just win, and ***** off until you do.

You guys may be entitled to your rage, and it’s clear you feel entitled to it, but that should not make you oblivious to its repercussions.

So, it is the fan’s fault?

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

2023-24 Roster: The first Sabres team to not win 3 games in a row in a single season (sans shortened covid year). This might be an NHL first. I am about 1/3 of the way through the league and so far it is. 

You underestimate how bad some teams have been.  The Tank Sabres don't even crack the bottom 100 even if you deduct the OT points they won (mimic old-fashioned ties).

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Ugh.

So, it is the fan’s fault?

I don't even know where to start with that post. Maybe with the idea that fans should ignore context when evaluating each season. An argument could be made that the drought should be put to the side in fairness to the players who aren't responsible for all of it.

The fans' displeasure this season has a lot more to do with performance vs. last year IMHO. When the team started .500 over the first 20 games then had a terrible 10 game segment in late November and early December and THEN got routed by the woeful BJs at home, all bets were off with the fans. They chanted for Don's head once. He has gotten off easy.

I can't even believe we're having this discussion.

[PASabreFan]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

The amount of hatred that has been directed their way and this surprises you?

I think Sabrespace feels like it has been shouting into the wind at this franchise for so long, it’s lost perspective on what it is actually putting out there right now, and that people are actually listening.

I’ve been here for the entire dark era - through far worse and more uncaring teams - and I don’t ever remember it feeling this personal. I think it’s far more of a reaction to the entire disastrous Pegula era than it is about these players, but they are paying big-time for the organization making us actually feel hope in September.

The fanbase may have turned on this franchise because of a decade of truly horrible hockey, but it turned on this particular group of players after less than 3 months of mediocrity. And, in my view, has treated them with a degree of disdain that far outstrips what their actual play and effort warrants.

What Donnie is saying is that in the past year or two, a number of players made a long-term good-faith commitment to fix this. And they did it not ‘in spite of the city being a dump” but because they believed in Kevyn Adams story of this wonderful city and fanbase and group of players who could build something special together.

But I know most of you just want to be mad and I’m the one shouting into the wind. It’s not really about the hockey on here anymore; we’ve given up on talking about that. It's just win, and ***** off until you do.

You guys may be entitled to your rage, and it’s clear you feel entitled to it, but that should not make you oblivious to its repercussions.

What repercussions?

And what players are you crediting for nobly signing extensions bc they believed the city and fans were wonderful?

Power? Is there any scenario where doesn't sign that contract?

 

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Congrats guys, the guy you wanted to keep so bad? He will be fired because you couldn't keep your mouth shut. 

Good.  I love Donny as much as the guys in the room but the magic is gone.  It took Lindy 16 seasons to get to this point but by then I wanted him gone too.  It's a necessary move.

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I know you guys hate Boston, but contrast his comments with this:

https://firstsportz.com/nhl-news-jim-montgomery-acknowledges-fans-booing/

The difference is part of what is fundamentally wrong with this franchise. 

Everybody that posts here should read this.  

Thanks for posting it.  I know I’m not crazy after all. 

I can't remember exactly when it was, but I think it was in November; I think Alex Tuch said something similar, and that the boos helped the team realize they had to work harder and they won a game (I thought it was 11/24 vs. Pittsburgh, but in the postgame presser Tuch didn't go there exactly.)  But I associate the statement with Tuch, and that it was to the effect that that fans weren't wrong and the team needed to hear it.  It worked once, but since then the fans have been quick to boo and it's no longer having the desired effect, making everyone more frustrated.

I feel like the FIRE DONNY chants were a direct offshoot of that incident.

[TageMVP]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

You guys may be entitled to your rage, and it’s clear you feel entitled to it, but that should not make you oblivious to its repercussions.

Wow 

[SwampD]

17 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

The most jarring thing for me to hear was this….

Donnie was discussing the boos and that the players don’t like being booed and it hurts.  
 

For me that’s a problem but whatever.  
 

In explaining it further he said this (essentially):  “Several of these guys decided on extensions before going to market because they want to be here…so it hurts.”

 

Ok.  I take that 100% to mean that came up in discussing this.
 

Someone legit said “we made a choice to stay in this dump of a city* and this is the thanks we get?”   

 

 

*Make no mistake - it isn’t the organization that gives this team a recruiting problem it’s the area.  We had problems during the Hasek days trying to convince guys to come here.  I think Geoff Sanderson comes to mind as a guy that wasn’t sure.   
 

 

Buffalo will always be my home despite having moved and I’ll defend it no matter what.  However the perception of the city is not good compared to other options in the league.  Maybe you’ll disagree but anyway…

 

Thoughts on this?  I’m completely blown away Donnie actually relayed that and that it was even said (presumably per DG).   

I just listened to the interview. I do not have the same take on it as you do and don't think it is as big of an issue as you.

I just want to say that as a really young team (I know, I know) that does not yet have the full support of ownership (financial restraints come off next year), this could end up being a good thing and they could actually learn from it and end up better in the long run for it.

Just thought you should know.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

Ugh.

So, it is the fan’s fault?

Of course not.

Just saying that it is pretty naive to expect the players to respond to the type of rhetoric being pitched around here in anything other than a negative way.

Just like I think it would be even more naive for the team to expect the fans to respond to this season in anything other than a negative way.

39 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

What repercussions?

And what players are you crediting for nobly signing extensions bc they believed the city and fans were wonderful?

Power? Is there any scenario where doesn't sign that contract?

 

See above.

It's not about "noble". You don't think the rhetoric Adams was peddling prior to Cozens, Dahlin, Samuelsson, Thompson and Power signing influenced their decisions at all? Or that it might ring hollow to those players right now?

And since I apparently have to say these things: the above does not absolve any of them for their bad play, nor suggest any fan should not be upset about same, or feel sorry for the players.

I happen to agree with most of your reply to Swamp above. Tried to say the same thing in my initial post.

Edited February 21 by dudacek

[Pimlach]

12 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I can't remember exactly when it was, but I think it was in November; I think Alex Tuch said something similar, and that the boos helped the team realize they had to work harder and they won a game (I thought it was 11/24 vs. Pittsburgh, but in the postgame presser Tuch didn't go there exactly.)  But I associate the statement with Tuch, and that it was to the effect that that fans weren't wrong and the team needed to hear it.  It worked once, but since then the fans have been quick to boo and it's no longer having the desired effect, making everyone more frustrated.

I feel like the FIRE DONNY chants were a direct offshoot of that incident.

But have they really?   

The biggest change with the fans is they now boo after the first period when the team does not start well and falls behind - which has become a very bad habit for this team and something the coaches cannot seem to fix.   The team no longer scores enough to catch up, and they struggle at zone entries whenever the opponent is playing shut down, often giving up breakaways and odd man rushes.   Again, this has been happening all season and has not been corrected but the coaches.  The fans are smart - they know that starting in the hole after one period equals a loss this season.  

Recall the home game against the Kracken on TNT (or ESPN).  The first period ended 2-1, some fans booed at the end.  The announcers all chuckled and said given the situation in Buffalo they can't blame them.  The game was 2-1 but it was not really close, this team dogs it at home.   

[Doohickie]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

36 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

the fans have been quick to boo and it's no longer having the desired effect,

But have they really?   

I'm not saying it's not justified.  I *am* saying that I think the team brought this on themselves by 1) given the boos credit for motivating them to come back in a game they were losing), and 2) continuing with slow starts.  I kind of think the fans' attitude is, hey, it worked once, let's try it again.  And then when it didn't, out came the FIRE DONNY chants.

The players are mad enough at the fans that they've figuratively gone to war against them, but the players have no one to blame but themselves for situation, and blaming it on the fans isn't going to make it better.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

I'm not saying it's not justified.  I *am* saying that I think the team brought this on themselves by 1) given the boos credit for motivating them to come back in a game they were losing), and 2) continuing with slow starts.  I kind of think the fans' attitude is, hey, it worked once, let's try it again.  And then when it didn't, out came the FIRE DONNY chants.

The players are mad enough at the fans that they've figuratively gone to war against them, but the players have no one to blame but themselves for situation, and blaming it on the fans isn't going to make it better.

Just,... no.

[Mango]

58 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Good.  I love Donny as much as the guys in the room but the magic is gone.  It took Lindy 16 seasons to get to this point but by then I wanted him gone too.  It's a necessary move.

Right, the fans and other orgs would not disagree with you. 

I am speaking in regards to what the locker room thought they were doing vs. what they actually did. They are a bunch of dumb-dumbs.