Which coach's tuchus is toastier, Granato's or McDermott's?

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, #freejame said:

The issue with Gallant, whom I like, is that he’s also not the “finisher” coach. Can he get us to play harder and make the playoffs? I strongly believe that. But he’s a 3-year lifespan coach and probably not a cup winner. 

But we are a just one step away.

[Brawndo]

I think it should be McDermott. 
 

McDermott has had a SuperBowl Caliber Team for the past Four Seasons. They have been to the AFC Championship once and lost two consecutive times in the divisional round.  He has a phenomenal QB, who will be 28 after this season, their salary cap situation dictates they are going to need to shed salary next year meaning a probable regression for a season or two. That puts Allen at 30, does He want to wait around that long with the same HC? 
 

This is the first season since Granato took over, that the Sabres as an Organization has been talking playoffs.  Missing this season puts Him on the hot seat next year. 
 

Unless the very unlikely scenario that a certain HC in Carolina becomes available occurs. 

[North Buffalo]

On 10/23/2023 at 10:11 PM, ... said:

I think McDermott's leash is a lot longer right now than Meatball's because he at least has a record of some success. Also, the Bills are banged up and not very deep, the latter of which is not McDermott's responsibiity.

Meatballs needs to prove he has the team's attention and can manage a game competently. I am not seeing evidence of either this season.

True and NFL is rigged toward a Swifty bowl so who cares... even if Bills D wasn't going to the ER

Edited October 25, 2023 by North Buffalo
context

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Sorry, I disagree.

You shall then be cast into Pegula's endless pit of losing .... 

[matter2003]

If by Toastier you mean one is Ice Cold and the other is so frozen that it would take weeks to unthaw, I guess Granato.

Edited October 25, 2023 by matter2003

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

True and NFL is rigged toward a Swifty bowl so who cares... even if Bills D wasn't going to the ER

it just feels like a KC super bowl with Taylor bringing in millions of "new fans" ...  imagine the TV Commercial for a Swifty Bowl?  

I cannot believe it has happened but the NFL has dropped to my second favorite league.   Sometimes I think the games are fixed, given the influence of gambling on all sports, they probably are.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 10/24/2023 at 11:33 AM, Rhyno716 said:

The Bills are making the same mistake that they made with Marv Levy. Mcdermott gets badly outcoached year after year in the playoffs and they need to make a change and swing for the fences while the window is still open. Levy should have been let go after the 3rd super bowl or maybe even the 2nd one. He was outcoached that badly. No team has ever started the same quarterback under the same head coach for more than five years and seen that duo win its first championship.

As for Granato he's definitely a good development coach but I doubt he will ever get the Sabres to the next level. This reminds me of Denis Savard when he was coaching the Blackhawks. He started the turnaround but when it was time to win he was quickly replaced by Joel Quenneville who was waiting in the wings in a consulting role. It won't happen but I think Gerard Gallant would be a good candidate.

Does this look familiar?

From ESPN on the firing of Savard https://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=3646685

Quote

 

Tallon said the evaluation process had been ongoing since training camp. He said the Blackhawks seemed to come out in the preseason without the same energy they displayed at the end of last season.

"It was a flat camp and we got out of the gate flat," Tallon said. "It just didn't seem that we carried over the energy that we had to finish the year last year. We felt we needed to send a message and invigorate this team.

 

That does sound familiar, but DG's seat is safe for at least this season unless they go on a long losing streak again.  I believe TP sees KA/DG as partners like Beane and McDermott.  He is going to give both men the chance to finish what they started.

[dudacek]

Watching Lindy Ruff Friday got me pondering the ridiculous percentage of competent coaches who get fired in pro sports. I mean, all of them do, right?

Sure, there are obviously overmatched coaches who deserve to get fired, but I wonder if they outnumber the capable coaches who get fired simply because the owner is petty, or unrealistic, or the customer demands a sacrifice and the owner thinks the business is better off listening.

”It’s about winning” is true, but it’s also kinda silly when you think of the context it’s used in sometimes. If it’s the sole barometer, an “average” coach is .500. Those guys get fired all the time. If it’s about “winning it all’ 95% of coaches fail each year. And the few that succeed quickly become failures too.

It’s just an odd profession because we all think it’s about teaching, and tactics, and leadership, when actually it’s mostly about your ability to continually sell hope and manage expectations.

I’m kinda tempted to get into a discussion about what the culture enveloping pro coaching says about the culture of sports fandom - and culture in general - but that’s a little deeper than I’m ready for right now.

But I can say this with a reasonable amount of certainty though:

Whoever replaces McDermott will almost certainly be less successful; the analytics on that are undeniable.

[PASabreFan]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Watching Lindy Ruff Friday got me pondering the ridiculous percentage of competent coaches who get fired in pro sports. I mean, all of them do, right?

Sure, there are obviously overmatched coaches who deserve to get fired, but I wonder if they outnumber the capable coaches who get fired simply because the owner is petty, or unrealistic, or the customer demands a sacrifice and the owner thinks the business is better off listening.

”It’s about winning” is true, but it’s also kinda silly when you think of the context it’s used in sometimes. If it’s the sole barometer, an “average” coach is .500. Those guys get fired all the time. If it’s about “winning it all’ 95% of coaches fail each year. And the few that succeed quickly become failures too.

It’s just an odd profession because we all think it’s about teaching, and tactics, and leadership, when actually it’s mostly about your ability to continually sell hope and manage expectations.

I’m kinda tempted to get into a discussion about what the culture enveloping pro coaching says about the culture of sports fandom - and culture in general - but that’s a little deeper than I’m ready for right now.

But I can say this with a reasonable amount of certainty though:

Whoever replaces McDermott will almost certainly be less successful; the analytics on that are undeniable.

You might have had me until the very end. Go on...

[PASabreFan]

Given this is pointedly about DG, Dudacek, I'm not sure your points apply. It's my opinion he didn't earn an NHL job and he's a development coach. If the franchise's goal is to make the playoffs this year and DG fails, he has to go. You can't just say he's a competent coach and they're all the same and the next guy won't necessarily be better. He might not necessarily be better, but you have to try. The situation in Buffalo is almost unique. The pressure to get a real coach if the drought lives on will be enormous. Rightly so.

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Given this is pointedly about DG, Dudacek, I'm not sure your points apply. It's my opinion he didn't earn an NHL job and he's a development coach. If the franchise's goal is to make the playoffs this year and DG fails, he has to go. You can't just say he's a competent coach and they're all the same and the next guy won't necessarily be better. He might not necessarily be better, but you have to try. 

Love the way Granato has developed the young talent and the team’s trend line under his leadership. I think he’s a smart hockey mind and a good human being. For me at least, he’s successfully managed expectations and instilled hope.

But I agree that the point of my earlier post doesn’t apply when it comes to him. He has yet prove himself as a capable NHL coach and if the season plays out as it has started, I’d fire him too.

Edited October 29, 2023 by dudacek

[Believer]

On 10/25/2023 at 12:57 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

He said the Blackhawks seemed to come out in the preseason without the same energy they displayed at the end of last season.

Sounds familiar…

Think KA/DG were so excited to see how our rich pipeline of prospects would perform in camp and preseason… they neglected to prepare our vets to win the last few preseason games and start the season with winning a team priority from the getgo…

Luckily, both signed extensions in the offseason and are safe for this season at least.

A win today against a top team at home would be more valuable than the 2 points.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Given this is pointedly about DG, Dudacek, I'm not sure your points apply. It's my opinion he didn't earn an NHL job and he's a development coach. If the franchise's goal is to make the playoffs this year and DG fails, he has to go. You can't just say he's a competent coach and they're all the same and the next guy won't necessarily be better. He might not necessarily be better, but you have to try. The situation in Buffalo is almost unique. The pressure to get a real coach if the drought lives on will be enormous. Rightly so.

I agree with some of this, but not all  

I disagree with your opinion that he didn’t earn the job.  First, he literally has coached at every level and has had success at every level.  He was an NHL assistant for 3+ years.   He took on the interim head coaching position and he clearly did improve the teams level of play enough to get earn a shot.  He had a NHL trail period and he passed.  I contend that most first time HC’s have far less experience.    Lindy Ruff had four years as an assistant in the NHL, then Buffalo took a chance on him as HC.  Did he earn it more than Granato?  

His first full season he had to deal with the dismantling of the team, the trading of his best players. Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, Montour all gone.  Adam’s got rid of anyone who doesn’t want to be here - they did a massive cultural change and that’s hard for a coach, yet he built a new Core very quickly, a better Core.  He was instrumental in bringing Dahlin out of a funk, resurrecting Skinner, resurrecting Mitts, and in developing Tage.  We are seeing a new Greenway.  Many young  players on this team have learned from him (Cozens, Quinn, JJP, Joker, Muel …) 

His 2nd full season, with terrible  goaltenders, he got them over DeLuca 0.500 and one point from playoffs.  

So here we are, his 3rd full season.   Adam’s says they are all in on playoffs.  He brings in Clifton, EJohnson, and a rookie goalie.  It is all up to Granato to make the playoffs in a highly competitive conference.  Most coaches, and many other hockey people, will say you didn’t do enough Mr GM. 

Granato operates under the constraints of Pegula’s fairy tale EEE long term hockey strategy.  The team has been so bad for so long that they have zero home ice advantage.  These little things limit opportunities to plug holes.   Players still avoid coming here.  

My big complaint about DG is when he talks about teaching defense after teaching offense.  In the NHL you have 3-4 years to win, if that. You need to get your entire system in immediately. I just don’t understand where he comes from on this. 

Granato could get fired after this year, or next.  Either way he will most certainly have left it better than he found it.  This team is a few players away from being very good.  It’s really up to the GM to someday finish the rebuild.  
 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Pimlach

[Dr. Who]

31 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Love the way Granato has developed the young talent and the team’s trend line under his leadership. I think he’s a smart hockey mind and a good human being. For me at least, he’s successfully managed expectations and instilled hope.

But I agree that the point of my earlier post doesn’t apply when it comes to him. He has yet prove himself as a capable NHL coach and if the season plays out as it has started, I’d fire him too.

Both McD and Granato are admirable human beings. You want them to succeed, and I hope they do. In the contemporary NFL, the trend line is to hire an offensive minded HC. The league is never going to return to the old blood-and-guts days where RB is the premier position and defenses can consistently dominate. You don't want to have to continually replace OC. In our case, Dorsey is more competent, I think, than his critics admit, though the shotgun runs on third and short are infuriating. We've had some devastating injuries on one side of the ball. Nonetheless, McD is wasting prime years of a franchise qb. Josh Allen not winning a SB in Buffalo would be an absolute travesty. I think if things implode this year, Pegula may be forced to make a change. I still think there is an outside chance they get it together and make a run.

Pimlach's take on Granato is right on the money, imo.