GDT: 2/23/2022 Sabres at Canadiens, 6:30 pm CT (that's 7:30 ET for you Buffalonians) MSG, WGR

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't agree with anything you've written here. 

In fact I think most of what you have written is factually wrong 

Do you know for sure that Pegula will appreciably loosen the purse strings in a year or two to make this a competitive team? I'm not saying no; but I'm also not saying yes. 

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Do you know for sure that Pegula will appreciably loosen the purse strings in a year or two to make this a competitive team? I'm not saying no; but I'm also not saying yes. 

I don't have any proof that the Pegulas told Adams he couldn't spend this year. Now I have posters claiming we won't be able to sign Tage Thompson in 2 years because the Pegulas won't let us. It is just asinine paranoia based on superfluous negativity. 

[eman]

9 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

It’s not all fans… But there is a certain segment of fans that want to lump all these losing years… Into current times. Current coach. Current roster. Current GM. It’s spill over frustration. Some can’t separate the years of GMTM, GMJB, and GMKA. And the same in regards to the coaches.

 

One thing that is the constant… The same ownership group.

We are lumping all these losing years under the same category because we are seeing "wash, rinse, repeat" regardless of who the players are, the GM is, the head coach is. Let me say this again, it has been 10 years going on 11 and as LGR4GM states, he expects at least another year of it, so let's say 12 years going on 13. But supposedly, the taste will be sweet after that. I'll believe it when I see it. It's just word salad for now. I like coach Don but I would like to see  a team that truly is "hard to play against" on most nights (again Don's mantra). Not happening again under a 3rd Sabres coach. No one fears playing this club and in fact, as in past seasons, enjoys playing its backup goaltenders, its "buried in the minors" goaltenders against this team. By the way, as for free agent signings of any player that could truly help this club in the future, who would want to come here?

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, eman said:

To even think that this new rebuild will be "the successful rebuild" (of how many rebuilds in the last 10 years? how many?) is sure folly. The jury is out on this coach as he cannot seem to make this team "all that hard to play against"- Donnie's mantra. We have been going through the cycle for 10 years now and while there are talented pieces in Rochester, inevitably, you need a good coaching staff to play under with a good system in place. I am seriously doubtful under Granato now. Compete shows up every 4th or 5th game only. The defence continues to suck ass under 3 separate  Sabre coaches now and God bless Owen Power, hope we don't wreck him like Ristolainen and end up giving him way too many minutes per game. So tell me when "the winning starts". Do fans show up at the turnstiles past November next season knowing "winning isn't a priority", yet again? Also, when you go into a season with that mindset, you breed a "losing culture" which is all too much the case in Buffalo. At the very least, regardless of the talent assembled, you should be playing hard and competing for the puck and we aren't seeing it all that often under coach Granato.

There was exactly one rebuild attempt before this one.  It failed because Tim Murray tried to take some shortcuts through free agency and trades. Botterill's tenure did not include a teardown. He tried to fix things on the fly.

So the answer to your question is one rebuild after the Eichel tank and one now.

[PromoTheRobot]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Do you know for sure that Pegula will appreciably loosen the purse strings in a year or two to make this a competitive team? I'm not saying no; but I'm also not saying yes. 

Terry is about to come into a windfall after years of red ink.

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, eman said:

We are lumping all these losing years under the same category because we are seeing "wash, rinse, repeat" regardless of who the players are, the GM is, the head coach is. Let me say this again, it has been 10 years going on 11 and as LGR4GM states, he expects at least another year of it, so let's say 12 years going on 13. But supposedly, the taste will be sweet after that. I'll believe it when I see it. It's just word salad for now. I like coach Don but I would like to see  a team that truly is "hard to play against" on most nights (again Don's mantra). Not happening again under a 3rd Sabres coach. No one fears playing this club and in fact, as in past seasons, enjoys playing its backup goaltenders, its "buried in the minors" goaltenders against this team. By the way, as for free agent signings of any player that could truly help this club in the future, who would want to come here?

I want to add because I do empathize with what many are frustrated at that even after another year of growth, idk if we will make the correct moves to make the playoff in say 2024. There has been so much wrong here for so long. But I do hope and see signs we are on the good path. 

[Believer]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We either can keep drafting well and build up to what a playoff team is, or we can panic after one of the most predictable years and hit reset on the 3rd plan we have started and set ourselves back another 3-5 years... again. 

Don’t think anyone is suggesting flushing the DG/KA team yet… Think what some of us are suggesting is

1) KA and Pegula putting more emphasis on expectations… on winning by adding a few more players from winning Cup programs 

2) Granato putting more emphasis on expectations… on winning despite our youth and roster holes

Step up the rebuild with smart, active management by the owner, the GM, and the Coach…

[PromoTheRobot]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I will try one more desperate time to say this. The Sabres are at least another full season away from the playoffs because they are young, they are still short on talent, and they need a steady pipeline of mature prospects graduating into the system. It sucks, I hate it. It is however the reality of the situation at hand and firing Granato after one season or firing Adams after 1 season (it is 1 season of him in charge), doesn't change those underlying facts. We either can keep drafting well and build up to what a playoff team is, or we can panic after one of the most predictable years and hit reset on the 3rd plan we have started and set ourselves back another 3-5 years... again. 

I do wonder what happens to our Russian talent pool in light if current events.

[jad1]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This is Year One of the Adams/Granato regime. Nothing that happened 10 years prior has anything to do with the current Sabres. 

It's year 2 of Adams/Granato.  And it's 10 years of absolutely no expectation of this team winning.

Meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss.

24 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And you were expecting what? The playoffs? Calling out a lack of success when a team is rebuilding is the weakest move. Yes. They aren't winning. They explained they weren't going to be winning right away. And yet...

This might be a newsflash for Sabres fans, who's experience with continual losing has resulted in a form of Stockholm Syndrome, but the NHL isn't a developmental league.  

Continual rebuilds are the weakest move, not a fan's expectation that a professional sports team would challenge for the playoffs once every decade or so. 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Believer said:

Don’t think anyone is suggesting flushing the DG/KA team yet… Think what some of us are suggesting is

1) KA and Pegula putting more emphasis on expectations… on winning by adding a few more players from winning Cup programs 

2) Granato putting more emphasis on expectations… on winning despite our youth and roster holes

Step up the rebuild with smart, active management by the owner, the GM, and the Coach…

1) Who do you suggest we sign right now? I read Sean Avery is making a comeback.

2) What evidence do you have that he isn't? And how does that change things?

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, jad1 said:

It's year 2 of Adams/Granato.  And it's 10 years of absolutely no expectation of this team winning.

Meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss.

This might be a newsflash for Sabres fans, who's experience with continual losing has resulted in a form of Stockholm Syndrome, but the NHL isn't a developmental league.  

Continual rebuilds are the weakest move, not a fan's expectation that a professional sports team would challenge for the playoffs once every decade or so. 

 

 

This is year one of Adams and Granato. Last year was Adams and Krueger, and Krueger got fired midway.  Also Granato was the interim coach after taking over. He wasn't named the coach until the end of last year.

[Broken Ankles]

11 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

I’m at the point where if Eakin and Bjork are in the lineup, I’m not going to bother to watch

eakin played 11 mins and got caved in AGAIN.   Team worst 20% Corsi.  0 shot attempts. 1 brutal giveaway.    
His line mates were near as bad  

they aren’t good enough to overcome his putrid play.   

Next time I watch a Sabres game one of JJ, Jack or UPL will be in the lineup.   Hopefully all 3

Otherwise it’s just a waste of time 

+1.  Just abhorrent.  I’ve been on the replace the 4th line for a few weeks, and last night set me over the edge. 
 

At what point does the coaching staff start getting the blame for the product on the ice, and the combinations that are not working? 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, jad1 said:

It's year 2 of Adams/Granato.  And it's 10 years of absolutely no expectation of this team winning.

Meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss.

This might be a newsflash for Sabres fans, who's experience with continual losing has resulted in a form of Stockholm Syndrome, but the NHL isn't a developmental league.  

Continual rebuilds are the weakest move, not a fan's expectation that a professional sports team would challenge for the playoffs once every decade or so. 

 

Again this is just the second rebuild of the last ten years. And how do you expect a team to get good if you don't rebuild a bad team?

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

+1.  Just abhorrent.  I’ve been on the replace the 4th line for a few weeks, and last night set me over the edge. 
 

At what point does the coaching staff start getting the blame for the product on the ice, and the combinations that are not working? 

In three years.

[eman]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I want to add because I do empathize with what many are frustrated at that even after another year of growth, idk if we will make the correct moves to make the playoff in say 2024. There has been so much wrong here for so long. But I do hope and see signs we are on the good path. 

I agree with there being quite good talent in Rochester, and I am being optimistic that they will bear fruit once they get up to the NHL. The cupboard certainly isn't bare. The Granato thing actually is starting to scare me as we are seeing exactly what we saw under the previous 2 Sabre coaches. When I see Boudreau making a difference in Vancouver, Gallant making a difference in New York, now St. Louis making a difference in Montreal, it worries me. Don hasn't addressed the defensive woes whatsoever in my opinion, I don't see any change in defensive system from the previous coaches. Very weak defence. The effort, aside from one game against Colorado is sorely lacking yet again. I can't help bu think the major weakness of this entire organization is actually selecting a good head coach. I do not put Donny G. in that category yet despite the advance of Dahlin and Thompson.

 

14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

There was exactly one rebuild attempt before this one.  It failed because Tim Murray tried to take some shortcuts through free agency and trades. Botterill's tenure did not include a teardown. He tried to fix things on the fly.

So the answer to your question is one rebuild after the Eichel tank and one now.

and how have both done??? Are you happy with them? Do you truly believe in 2 years time (2 more seasons aside from this one) that the Sabres will truly be fighting for a playoff spot?

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, eman said:

and how have both done??? Are you happy with them? Do you truly believe in 2 years time (2 more seasons aside from this one) that the Sabres will truly be fighting for a playoff spot?

The first failed because Tim Murray thought he could take shortcuts. This one just started and I think is going as expected. The good news is our talent pool is deep (though I don't know what happens to our Russian players in light of current events.)

Fans are definitely behaving as expected. 😂

Edited February 24, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

While Dahlin has been the boards favorite whipping boy for months, Cozens has been largely meh for months and continues to underperform IMPO. 

Cozens should be in the AHL needs a wake up call 

[jad1]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

This is year one of Adams and Granato. Last year was Adams and Krueger, and Krueger got fired midway.  Also Granato was the interim coach after taking over. He wasn't named the coach until the end of last year.

They were both in the organization last season in their current roles.  Granato was hire mid-season, he has W's and L's attached to his name last season for the Buffalo Sabres. Every coach and GM should be accountable for their record.

Regardless of the spin, it's year 2 for both of them.

[eman]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The first failed because Tim Murray thought he could take shortcuts. This one just started and I think is going as expected. The good news is our talent pool is deep (though I don't know what happens to our Russian players in light of current events.)

Fans are definitely behaving as expected. 😂

The fans are behaving as expected. Buffalo fans are some of the best in the league both NHL/NFL and most definitely deserve so much better! The Bills are showing up and Josh Allen may be one of the best to come through this city. The defence may need work despite what their ranking was last season as it got exposed horrifically in 13 seconds. I have no problems with the talent assembled in Rochester and some decent players with the parent club now. My greatest concern, and continues to be, the fact that maybe Don Granato is another Housley (certainly not a Kruger) and we are wasting our up and coming talent on yet another losuy head coach. I am not all that impressed with what I am seeing on the ice effort wise and compete wise. That was supposed to be Donnie's trademark (as it was Ted Nolan's) but it is not manifesting itself on most nights. only in the odd glimpse and that is coaching. Talent may be thin, but the effort shouldn't be.

[Believer]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

1) Who do you suggest we sign right now? I read Sean Avery is making a comeback.

2) What evidence do you have that he isn't? And how does that change things?

Who to sign??… KA has shown he is willing to sign experienced talent to accelerate the rebuild… His scouts have targets… Question is will Pegula be willing to pay for it… As for Granato’s expectations… the flat first periods over the last four games speak volumes… If he is giving a “winning effort every night” message to the team…especially last night with a chance to sweep and break a three game losing streak… they are tuning him out… At this stage, given his focus on player development, prefer to think he hasn’t emphasized enough win message… To think otherwise means he isn’t connecting with the team in the locker room… My bet this is not the case…

[SabresVet]

56 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Do you know for sure that Pegula will appreciably loosen the purse strings in a year or two to make this a competitive team? I'm not saying no; but I'm also not saying yes. 

I doubt anyone outside the organization knows for sure.  Then again, when you're drawing less than 8,700 per home game I wouldn't be optimistic.      

42 minutes ago, jad1 said:

It's year 2 of Adams/Granato.  And it's 10 years of absolutely no expectation of this team winning.

Meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss.

This might be a newsflash for Sabres fans, who's experience with continual losing has resulted in a form of Stockholm Syndrome, but the NHL isn't a developmental league.  

Continual rebuilds are the weakest move, not a fan's expectation that a professional sports team would challenge for the playoffs once every decade or so. 

The gap between fan reality and team leadership reality has grown.  What is acceptable to a core group of hardcore fans isn't translating to the fans at large nor, I have to believe, team management.  The low home attendance is indicative of this, and those rebuilds you reference have worn thin whatever patience existed.

I still maintain that there is nothing to quantify Buffalo has improved this season beside the general claims fans make that the younger players are better.  Even if you take the W-L record out of that discussion, the defense isn't better.  The goaltending has been mismanaged as it has been for years.  Coaching, while an improvement from some, isn't at the level I think people expected.

 

[LGR4GM]

40 minutes ago, jad1 said:

They were both in the organization last season in their current roles.  Granato was hire mid-season, he has W's and L's attached to his name last season for the Buffalo Sabres. Every coach and GM should be accountable for their record.

Regardless of the spin, it's year 2 for both of them.

Except it isn't. 

[PromoTheRobot]

30 minutes ago, jad1 said:

They were both in the organization last season in their current roles.  Granato was hire mid-season, he has W's and L's attached to his name last season for the Buffalo Sabres. Every coach and GM should be accountable for their record.

Regardless of the spin, it's year 2 for both of them.

It's not spin. Granato was THE INTERIM COACH last year. No amount of breath-holding and denial on your part changes that.

[LGR4GM]

50 minutes ago, eman said:

I agree with there being quite good talent in Rochester, and I am being optimistic that they will bear fruit once they get up to the NHL. The cupboard certainly isn't bare. The Granato thing actually is starting to scare me as we are seeing exactly what we saw under the previous 2 Sabre coaches. When I see Boudreau making a difference in Vancouver, Gallant making a difference in New York, now St. Louis making a difference in Montreal, it worries me. Don hasn't addressed the defensive woes whatsoever in my opinion, I don't see any change in defensive system from the previous coaches. Very weak defence. The effort, aside from one game against Colorado is sorely lacking yet again. I can't help bu think the major weakness of this entire organization is actually selecting a good head coach. I do not put Donny G. in that category yet despite the advance of Dahlin and Thompson.

 

and how have both done??? Are you happy with them? Do you truly believe in 2 years time (2 more seasons aside from this one) that the Sabres will truly be fighting for a playoff spot?

All coaching changes provide a temporary boost so nothing here surprises me. Montreal will come back to earth quickly due to their talent issues. The Rangers are not good, but they are getting elite level goaltending and it is masking a lot of their problems. 

I don't think Granato is responsible for having an exceedingly young roster with growing pains. I think that is just the reality of the situation. 

[PromoTheRobot]

29 minutes ago, Believer said:

Who to sign??… KA has shown he is willing to sign experienced talent to accelerate the rebuild… His scouts have targets… Question is will Pegula be willing to pay for it… As for Granato’s expectations… the flat first periods over the last four games speak volumes… If he is giving a “winning effort every night” message to the team…especially last night with a chance to sweep and break a three game losing streak… they are tuning him out… At this stage, given his focus on player development, prefer to think he hasn’t emphasized enough win message… To think otherwise means he isn’t connecting with the team in the locker room… My bet this is not the case…

I asked who is out there right now to bring in. Not surprised you didn't answer.

[inkman]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I asked who is out there right now to bring in. Not surprised you didn't answer.

Hoping there are some hockey trades to be had.  Maybe even get someone at the deadline we can pencil into the lineup next season.  Team needs another vet or two depending on who they lose in the next 3 months