LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 further, this team does not have the depth to trade a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Terrible idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) So you want to gut our center depth... no. Nothing like having a bunch of wingers and Jack to make the team suck. *Flagg endorses none of this. A little bigger for ya FTR, I think that team a.) doesn't fit under the cap b.) would win at least 2 playoff rounds Edited May 15, 2018 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 that team won't make the playoffs. It sure as hell won't beat a team with better balance or more than 1 good center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) that team won't make the playoffs. You're out of your mind. Trouba is the best defender on the Jets and is still young enough to get better. Coupled with Dahlin, Pesce, who is a 2D, and Scandella, and Orlov, who is another top 3 D, with Holtby in net, and upgrading our forward points scored by a sizable amount, doesn't make the playoffs? That team is a cup contender. Edited May 15, 2018 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) You aren't upgrading the forward talent. You're trading center depth for wing depth. You're also your cap. Edited May 15, 2018 by Skurk Liger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) You aren't upgrading the forward talent. You're trading center depth for wing depth. By wing depth, you mean adding 164 points to the top lines in exchange for ROR and his 60, right? Look, I said it was a wild thing just because I was bored and that I woudln't even do the moves myself, so I was expecting heat because even though we ###### suck and are by far the worst franchise in the NHL over the last 5 years people are still overprotective towards our roster, but calling a team with 5 defensemen considered 3D or better, and 4 that play top pairing roles well, 2 of them likely bona-fide Norris-contending 1D (Dahlin, Trouba) an 82 point winger, Jack Eichel, Sam Reinhart, and a 64 point winger bolstered by an average 3rd line and perhaps the best 4th line in the league Brayden Holtby in net not a playoff team, is patently absurd Edited May 15, 2018 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 From Jim Toth Winnipeg Radio Host Source tells me #NHLJets Jacob Trouba has informed his agent he wants to remain a Jet & sign long term. Agent Kurt Overhardt has declined to comment. Won't play out till this summer & does not mean a deal will get done but have been told the desire & wish is to stay in #Winnipeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 It's not a playoffs team. I'll roll my best defensive unit against your top line and attack the rest of the time. Reinhart isn't a great center. Rask won't be as good as Mittelstadt in another year. The rest of your wings are meh. I like Trouba but doubt he'll ever win the Norris. You're sacrificing center depth and depth overall for defense. That team might win of they play a 1-3-1 trap. Sounds boring to me. Also I can have 4 defenders considered top 3 at the start of next year... Dahlin, Risto, Scandella and one of Pilut, McCabe, or Guhle. Why am I even arguing this. Have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) Buffalo in 2017-18 EROD (25 in 48) - Eichel (64 in 67) - Okposo (44) Pouliot (19) - ROR (61) - Reinhart (50) Baptiste (6 in 33) - Larsson (17) Pominville (34) Wilson (14) - Girgensons (15) - Nolan (8) Scandella (22) - Ristolainen (41) McCabe (12 in 53) - Falk (2 in 46) Antipin (10 in 47) - Beaulieu (9 in 59) Nelson (8 in 37) Guhle (5 in 18) Lehner Johnson Winnipeg Jets 2017-18 Wheeler (91) - Scheifele (60 in 60) - Connor (57) Ehlers (60) - Little (43) - Laine (70) Armia (29) - Perreault (39) - Copp (28) Tanev (18) - Lowry (21) - Roslovic (14) Morrissey (26) - Trouba (24 in 55) Enstrom (9) - Byfuglien (45) Kulikov (11 in 62) - Myers (36) Hellebyuck Flagg's Roster Panarin (82) - Eichel (64 in 67) - Wilson (35) Teravainen (64) - Reinhart (50) - Baptiste (weak link) EROD (25 in 48) - Rask (31 in 71) - Okposo (44) Nash (41) - Letestu (23) - Calvert (24) Dahlin (100 Pts, Norris, Hart) - Trouba (24 in 55) Scandella (22) - Pesce (19 in 65) Orlov (31) - Nelson (8 in 37) Holtby You gotta give to get, and it's not fun to lose ROR, but 157 points from our centers rises to 168, so I don't think I've actually hurt our center depth that badly, I've downgraded ROR to Sam but significantly upgraded the area of our forward group that is the weakness in the first place, depth scoring at C AND on the wings. And instead of playing with Pominville in Girgensons, Eich daddy gets a premiere superstar and an effective space-maker that has helped another line of superstars click all season long (Kuzy and Ovie), while building the best defense in the NHL (Scandella-Pesce would easily be a top 3 shutdown pair, and nobody has Dahlin-Trouba on top of that, much less a 2/3D on their 3rd pairing behind it all)So upon further reflection, I wholeheartedly endorse this offseason plan (and know it's impossible, because there's no way we can improve our team this much in one or even three offseasons IMO)Get it done Botterill!!! It's not a playoffs team. I'll roll my best defensive unit against your top line and attack the rest of the time. Reinhart isn't a great center. Rask won't be as good as Mittelstadt in another year. The rest of your wings are meh.I like Trouba but doubt he'll ever win the Norris. You're sacrificing center depth and depth overall for defense. That team might win of they play a 1-3-1 trap. Sounds boring to me.Also I can have 4 defenders considered top 3 at the start of next year... Dahlin, Risto, Scandella and one of Pilut, McCabe, or Guhle.Why am I even arguing this. Have at it. Further analysis makes this even more laughable! Edited May 15, 2018 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Yeah Liger you're crazy with that take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Attempt two: Trade Risto for Kadri and ROR, Dahlin for Tarasenko, Parayko, and Kyrou. (ducks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 You made depth scoring worse. This literally assumes Mittelstadt doesn't exist this season except as a trade piece. It gives the toughest defensive minutes to Rask and Reinhart. It guts the depth of the team. That team is a one pump chump. You either win it all in year one or you're . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Attempt two: Trade Risto for Kadri and ROR, Dahlin for Tarasenko, Parayko, and Kyrou. (ducks) Throws lower.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 You've destroyed our center depth. You trade two centers in the end for 1. This assumes Mittelstadt can't get what the 30 pts that Rask had? I very much doubt after this year it will be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 You made depth scoring worse. This literally assumes Mittelstadt doesn't exist this season except as a trade piece. It gives the toughest defensive minutes to Rask and Reinhart. It guts the depth of the team. That team is a one pump chump. You either win it all in year one or you're ######. No I didn't. If you call our bottom two lines "depth scoring", they go from 84 points to 188. The top six goes from 263 to 256, so you got me there. *Switches EROD and Baptiste* There! Now we improve the bottom six by 85 points instead of by 104, and improve the top six by 12 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 This team you put together is 1 year away because of the Panarim idea. That alone most of it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 And sure, losing Mittelstadt's potential, whatever that may be, isn't fun, but also adding a PPG superstar is pretty fun. All of that even ignores making our defense from the dreck that it is into the best unit in the NHL. *continues tooting my own horn obnoxiously* I think I deserve a Nobel prize for this roster, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 No I didn't. If you call our bottom two lines "depth scoring", they go from 84 points to 188. The top six goes from 263 to 256, so you got me there. *Switches EROD and Baptiste* There! Now we improve the bottom six by 85 points instead of by 104, and improve the top six by 12 as well. Reinhart just got hurt. Who plays center? Reinhart can't play center, his production drops low. In turn his line mate production drops. Rask gets his 31 but in 2 years Mittelstadt is getting 62. Panarin drops back to 72pts instead of 82. Teams put their best players out against Jack's line. Your 4th line is another year older, cut their production by 20% because age. Nash sees his ice time go from 16:53 to 12:53. His production drops. All possible. And sure, losing Mittelstadt's potential, whatever that may be, isn't fun, but also adding a PPG superstar is pretty fun. All of that even ignores making our defense from the dreck that it is into the best unit in the NHL. *continues tooting my own horn obnoxiously* I think I deserve a Nobel prize for this roster, personally. Ok Donald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Reinhart just got hurt. Who plays center? Reinhart can't play center, his production drops low. In turn his line mate production drops. Rask gets his 31 but in 2 years Mittelstadt is getting 62. Panarin drops back to 72pts instead of 82. Teams put their best players out against Jack's line. Your 4th line is another year older, cut their production by 20% because age. Nash sees his ice time go from 16:53 to 12:53. His production drops. All possible. Ok Donald. The same thing is true now - when Eich got hurt, we rolled what, ROR - Rodrigues - Larsson - Girgensons. It happens! The peg is one injury away from Scheifele - Copp - Lowry - Dano. Vegas? Nosek - Haula - ...what is left? Washington without backstrom was rolling Eller - Kuznetsov - Stephenson - Beagle. I bet Donald gets one. But really, you could argue those same theoreticals about any lineup in the NHL, and they'll all have varying strong and weak points. My over the top, over the cap lineup is still a cup contender after all of that, because of the beefy defense, shored up depth, and stability in goal. Fight me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Now I can plug Mittelstadt in or Reinhart if ROR goes down. With you, no option. I bet after yesterday, peace prize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) Eccentric offseason: Offer sheet Trouba at ~8 million, creating cap problems for Winnipeg, where they ultimately accept a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in 2019. Trade Ristolainen and O'Reilly for Pesce, Teravainen, and Rask. Add Riley Nash, Mark Letestu, and Matt Calvert for a "finally not pile of trash" fourth line. McCabe, Mittelstadt, Nylander, and a 2nd for Holtby, Orpik, Orlov, and Wilson. Get ready to make a run at Panarin in the following offseason Teravainen - Eichel - Wilson Competition - Reinhart - Baptiste Rodrigues - Rask - Okposo Nash - Letestu - Calvert Orlov - Trouba Dahlin - Pesce Scandella - Nelson/Bogosian Holtby Ullmark The following season: Panarin - Eichel - Wilson Teravainen - Reinhart - Baptiste Erod - Rask - Okposo Nash - Letestu - Calvert Dahlin - Trouba Scandella - Pesce Orlov - Nelson Holtby Ullmark *Flagg endorses none of this. He is simply bored and throwing ###### at the wall. Be nice to him. That defense is absolutely ludicrous, that team probably doesn't fit under the cap, but imagine a defense with Dahlin and Trouba, and 3 more 3D behind them, WITH Eichel/Panarin/Teravainen/Reinhart as forwards You lost me at 8 mil for Trouba. I watch lots of Jets games here, he’s not anywhere near that good. It's not a playoffs team. I'll roll my best defensive unit against your top line and attack the rest of the time. Reinhart isn't a great center. Rask won't be as good as Mittelstadt in another year. The rest of your wings are meh. I like Trouba but doubt he'll ever win the Norris. You're sacrificing center depth and depth overall for defense. That team might win of they play a 1-3-1 trap. Sounds boring to me. Also I can have 4 defenders considered top 3 at the start of next year... Dahlin, Risto, Scandella and one of Pilut, McCabe, or Guhle. Why am I even arguing this. Have at it. Doubt he comes close. Edited May 15, 2018 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Now I can plug Mittelstadt in or Reinhart if ROR goes down. With you, no option. I bet after yesterday, peace prize. Plugging in Mitts doesn't do anything good for us for a few years yet. All fun aside, I broadly agree with your inclination towards center depth. It's why I wouldn't actually give up ROR without clear overpayment coming back, that would objectively make us better. I'm still looking to move out one core piece even with the fun that this offseason has been so far. I don't think we'll get value that we need for ROR. I don't think Reinhart gets us an upgrade now, and I think he has upside that could make a trade sting in the future. So I think Risto is going to be the guy. And I think Edmonton might be a target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) I'm not trading any of our core unless the trade makes us blatantly better. I'm not trading Risto for anything short of Draisital on EDM. I'm not taking pieces or cap dumps or picks, they either give us a player of similar importance or I'm keeping our young defenseman. So I think Risto is going to be the guy. And I think Edmonton might be a target. I know you dislike Risto, but that doesn't mean we need to trade him. Edited May 15, 2018 by dewookieen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 I'm not trading any of our core unless the trade makes us blatantly better. I'm not trading Risto for anything short of Draisital on EDM. I'm not taking pieces or cap dumps or picks, they either give us a player of similar importance or I'm keeping our young defenseman. I know you dislike Risto, but that doesn't mean we need to trade him. Oh, I'm separating my view of Risto from Botterill's there. I think that HE wants to trade Risto, and I think Edmonton wants to trade for Risto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 Oh, I'm separating my view of Risto from Botterill's there. I think that HE wants to trade Risto, and I think Edmonton wants to trade for Risto. I don't see that, he'd be rather dumb to do so and I just don't see Botts being that stupid barring Chia handing over the equivalent of his 1st born Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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