Buffalo Bills 2018-2019

[Randall Flagg]

Not to mention, relying on total outliers probably isn't the best way to go about player evaluation. Unless anyone wants to advocate only drafting 6th round QBs because of Brady...

 

You're still wrong about Jackson though :nana:

Jackson throws with EJ's consistency and accuracy, but at least he's faster than Allen. 

 

I'm moving more towards doing everything possible to get Rosen or Mayfield and not even bothering drafting a QB if it doesn't work out that way. Which would suck, so please find a way to get Rosen or Mayfield. Preferably Rosen. 

[Gramps]

I'm not citing completion percentages. I don't care about their completion percentages. I think that's what you're referring to. But Favre could hit his receivers in games far better than Allen can. Allen is absolute dogshit when he isn't bombing 70 yard passes in shorts, or palming a basketball to show how big his hands are. ie, when he's doing anything that remotely resembles being a quarterback in an actual football game.

 

In college games @ Southern Miss ? Says who ? There's a reason Favre was at 52% - he was a raw talent that needed to be refined. 62% in the pros. Allen will have a learning curve in the NFL just like everyone else. 

 

There are boatload of knowledgable people that disagree with you. 

[TrueBlueGED]

In college games @ Southern Miss ? Says who ? There's a reason Favre was at 52% - he was a raw talent that needed to be refined. 62% in the pros. Allen will have a learning curve in the NFL just like everyone else.

 

There are boatload of knowledgable people that disagree with you.

And there are another boatload who disagree with you.

[Gramps]

And there are another boatload who disagree with you.

 

And I accept it - guess we'll see in a few years. 

[TrueBlueGED]

And I accept it - guess we'll see in a few years.

Let me go about this a different way: What is it about Allen that makes you think he'll improve in the pros?

[Gramps]

Let me go about this a different way: What is it about Allen that makes you think he'll improve in the pros?

 

Better coaches and playing with better athletes. 

[Randall Flagg]

In college games @ Southern Miss ? Says who ? There's a reason Favre was at 52% - he was a raw talent that needed to be refined. 62% in the pros. Allen will have a learning curve in the NFL just like everyone else. 

 

There are boatload of knowledgable people that disagree with you. 

There's also a boatload of knowledgeable people who disagree with you, and loved Jimmy Clausen, etc etc etc

That is not an argument at all.

[Gramps]

There's also a boatload of knowledgeable people who disagree with you, and loved Jimmy Clausen, etc etc etc

That is not an argument at all.

 

Whatever ... no one here has a Ouija board that can predict which QB will be successful in the pros. No matter on Allen anyways - he'll be gone by the time the Bills pick. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

So could Jamarcus Russel.

No he couldn’t. I watched him play at LSU and I was shocked how highly rated going into the draft. Million $ arm 5 cent head. Jeff George with more athletic ability.

 

I’m don't know if Allen is Farve or George or Leaf or Russell or the guy he actually reminds me of is Kurt Warner. However, Allen’s team this last season wasn’t great, but he had a very solid Bowl game and while only completing 56% of his passes the last 2 years, he went 44 td /21int and 16/6 this past year. Pretty solid on a mediocre 7-5 mid level football team. Warner completed only 58% in his one year as a college starter but was 66% in his HOF NFL career.

 

The question is moot. He’ll be long gone by the time we draft.

Edited March 4, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[TrueBlueGED]

Better coaches and playing with better athletes.

But that's all environmental. What is it about him that makes you think he'll develop his accuracy? Or do you think his only problems were the coach and WRs?

[GASabresIUFAN]

But that's all environmental. What is it about him that makes you think he'll develop his accuracy? Or do you think his only problems were the coach and WRs?

Better coaching, better offensive line, better RBs both catching and setting up play action, better WR/TE catching, unless of course he goes to Cleveland or the Jets.

[inkman]

Better coaching, better offensive line, better RBs both catching and setting up play action, better WR/TE catching, unless of course he goes to Cleveland or the Jets.

Better athletes on defense as well. Not to mention some witches as coordinators. It ain't gettin any easier for these guys.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Better athletes on defense as well. Not to mention some witches as coordinators. It ain't gettin any easier for these guys.

Oh no question. However, I like his chances if he gets put into the right situation.

[TrueBlueGED]

The guy said he's more accurate than the tape shows. He doesn't even think he has a problem. Why in the world should I believe he's going to put in the work to fix it? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The guy said he's more accurate than the tape shows. He doesn't even think he has a problem. Why in the world should I believe he's going to put in the work to fix it?

 

Because he put the work in to go from no college offers, to earning scholarship out of JC to becoming a star at Wyoming. I don’t think work ethic is an issue. It’s why he reminds me of Warner instead of guys like Farve or Russell or George.

[TrueBlueGED]

Because he put the work in to go from no college offers, to earning scholarship out of JC to becoming a star at Wyoming. I don’t think work ethic is an issue. It’s why he reminds me of Warner instead of guys like Farve or Russell or George.

 

I'm not talking about work ethic. It doesn't matter how hard he works if he isn't working on fixing something because he's of the opinion there isn't a problem.

[Huckleberry]

It's all falling into place - Allen is getting tons of love for his performance against air in shorts. May he go high and open up the chance for us to move up and get Rosen. 

 

You see when conditions for all performers are the same, you can't call one out for having it easier.    

I said it before, I'm no NFL fan, or know much about the game, do love reading about it, and I'd just stay away from this entire QB class.

 

Bills should do the right thing and put themselves in QB  purgatory for two more seasons, and for the love of god don't trade up because they are all reaches.

Just from reading I'll say this, Josh Allen will be the 2nd best QB from this class.

[Randall Flagg]

You see when conditions for all performers are the same, you can't call one out for having it easier.    

I said it before, I'm no NFL fan, or know much about the game, do love reading about it, and I'd just stay away from this entire QB class.

 

Bills should do the right thing and put themselves in QB  purgatory for two more seasons, and for the love of god don't trade up because they are all reaches.

Just from reading I'll say this, Josh Allen will be the 2nd best QB from this class.

But those conditions don't resemble anything like what Allen has shown to suck at. Everyone knew beforehand that he'd be the best combine quarterback because of his physical skills, but the things he's deficient in are the EXACT things that there is one example in the last 30 years of someone actually improving at the next level. Josh Allen's positive traits are the exact thing we traded up to get Losman for. There are hundreds of examples of players who can launch it with no touch or accuracy or ability to make reads or play with pressure in his face failing at the next level. They just don't get better.

Was it Linus Omark that was the shootout wizard? But the dude couldn't play hockey at all when it wasn't a goofy individual drill with nobody in his face and no quick decisions to make. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'm not talking about work ethic. It doesn't matter how hard he works if he isn't working on fixing something because he's of the opinion there isn't a problem.

Obviously the kid is very coachable.  Again it's once the reason he from obscurity to college stardom. What in his history says he won't put the work in to get better or listen to the coaches and fix the things they want done?  His track record says he'll do the work and listen and succeed.

[Randall Flagg]

Obviously the kid is very coachable.  Again it's once the reason he from obscurity to college stardom. What in his history says he won't put the work in to get better or listen to the coaches and fix the things they want done?  His track record says he'll do the work and listen and succeed.

His track record is that he cannot throw a football to save his life in an actual game situation, and makes decisions at speed with the same efficiency and success rate as Nathan Beaulieu.

[Randall Flagg]

"You can mold him into something really special. He's raw, but he's that piece of clay where you take him and you can turn him to what you want."

 

This was said about EJ Manuel, and I have read things that are almost exactly the same about Allen from these "experts". Switch like two words. Even sticking with the clay metaphor. 

Rosen's footwork and mechanics are superb and on game tape it shows. He has a history of making progressions and good decisions going through them. Not only does Allen miss every receiver he throws at and panic in pressure, but there's no evidence he even knows how to drop back from under center (his footwork was laughable in those throwing drills because of it) much less learn to do it while reading defenses for the first time against much faster and more sophisticated defenses. 

 

[TrueBlueGED]

 

"You can mold him into something really special. He's raw, but he's that piece of clay where you take him and you can turn him to what you want."

 

This was said about EJ Manuel, and I have read things that are almost exactly the same about Allen from these "experts". Switch like two words. Even sticking with the clay metaphor. 

 

Rosen's footwork and mechanics are superb and on game tape it shows. He has a history of making progressions and good decisions going through them. Not only does Allen miss every receiver he throws at and panic in pressure, but there's no evidence he even knows how to drop back from under center (his footwork was laughable in those throwing drills because of it) much less learn to do it while reading defenses for the first time against much faster and more sophisticated defenses. 

 

 

 

 

There's part of me that hardly even believes this is a debate. But there are always going to be people (both inside and outside the NFL) that think literally anything can be coached up.

Edited March 5, 2018 by TrueBlueGED

[Huckleberry]

But those conditions don't resemble anything like what Allen has shown to suck at. Everyone knew beforehand that he'd be the best combine quarterback because of his physical skills, but the things he's deficient in are the EXACT things that there is one example in the last 30 years of someone actually improving at the next level. Josh Allen's positive traits are the exact thing we traded up to get Losman for. There are hundreds of examples of players who can launch it with no touch or accuracy or ability to make reads or play with pressure in his face failing at the next level. They just don't get better.

Was it Linus Omark that was the shootout wizard? But the dude couldn't play hockey at all when it wasn't a goofy individual drill with nobody in his face and no quick decisions to make. 

 

Then why does the NFL even hold a combine for QB's ? but you are probably right about this.

If the bills stick with pick 20 and Allen is the only one available, would you take him or pass ?

 

"You can mold him into something really special. He's raw, but he's that piece of clay where you take him and you can turn him to what you want."

 

This was said about EJ Manuel, and I have read things that are almost exactly the same about Allen from these "experts". Switch like two words. Even sticking with the clay metaphor. 

 

Rosen's footwork and mechanics are superb and on game tape it shows. He has a history of making progressions and good decisions going through them. Not only does Allen miss every receiver he throws at and panic in pressure, but there's no evidence he even knows how to drop back from under center (his footwork was laughable in those throwing drills because of it) much less learn to do it while reading defenses for the first time against much faster and more sophisticated defenses. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah but for the same reason I 'd stay away from Darnold, even mayfield is in doubt if you guy by these assumptions.

Lamar jackon's stock went up a lot then.   So you only trade up for rosen and pick jackson if he drops to 21 ?

[Gramps]

But that's all environmental. What is it about him that makes you think he'll develop his accuracy? Or do you think his only problems were the coach and WRs?

 

If I had asked you the same question about Favre or Marino or others before they were drafted, what would you have said ? And how did they turn out ? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

His track record is that he cannot throw a football to save his life in an actual game situation, and makes decisions at speed with the same efficiency and success rate as Nathan Beaulieu.

His stats says quite the opposite.  44 TDs to 21 Ints in his two years as a starter, 16/6 last season on a mediocre team.  Show me a scouting report from a reputable source that agrees with you.  I haven't seen one and I've looked.  Don't simply base your opinion on completion %.  We have shown you two small time college QBs with similar numbers (Farve and Warner) that did ok in the pros.