WildCard Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 He didn't get enough screen time in The Hobbit movies. Everyone involved in those movies got entirely too much screen time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Getting into the business of artificially lowering his numbers, and potentially his confidence and tragectory, to save a few bucks doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I'm all for trying him at centre for as long as they feel they need to to get an accurate reading on his potential at centre, but once they figure that out, I don't want Sam at C a minute longer if they determine his long term place on the team is at wing. Keeping him at C at that point, if it's decided he should be at wing, all to manipulate his next deal is a baffling concept to me. You risk hampering a player's development. The intent isn't to artificially suppress his point totals, it's to see what they have in him at center so if and when he's needed there in a pinch when the playoffs are on the line they know what they have in him and what they can expect. In a perfect world Housley would break up the Kane Eichel pairing and put Kane with Reinhart, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards right now for whatever reason. Until then they'll just continue to cycle through all the other options to see what works best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 In a perfect world Housley would break up the Kane Eichel pairing and put Kane with Reinhart, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards right now for whatever reason. I think the "whatever reason" is about speed and tempo. Housley has an idea of what he wants (maybe it's JBot's too don't know how close they are). In his future version of the Sabres his top line with Eichel on it plays full out and at top speed. This is how Eichel is at his best. Kane is a sniper who can also play at that speed so at this moment, he's the best option in their mind as they get Jack to think of playing that way, and that way all the time. Reinhart is a slower, sometimes thoughtful and more deliberate player. So they hoped he could be more dominant matched up against third lines that are also generally not the fastest or most skilled on the other team. By all rights, there is really no excuse for him not to be a dominating third line centre. If they move him back to Eichel's wing Eichel slows down to try to play with him, and this isn't what they want from Jack. As things are going, I doubt very much if Reinhart is part of their long term plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I think the "whatever reason" is about speed and tempo. Housley has an idea of what he wants (maybe it's JBot's too don't know how close they are). In his future version of the Sabres his top line with Eichel on it plays full out and at top speed. This is how Eichel is at his best. Kane is a sniper who can also play at that speed so at this moment, he's the best option in their mind as they get Jack to think of playing that way, and that way all the time. Reinhart is a slower, sometimes thoughtful and more deliberate player. So they hoped he could be more dominant matched up against third lines that are also generally not the fastest or most skilled on the other team. By all rights, there is really no excuse for him not to be a dominating third line centre. If they move him back to Eichel's wing Eichel slows down to try to play with him, and this isn't what they want from Jack. As things are going, I doubt very much if Reinhart is part of their long term plan. It may seem counter-intuitive, but I actually think playing with Kane slows Jack down. He doesn't have to drive the play and is often just waiting to find out where the rebound from Kane's shot is going. If he played with Reinhart, he would have to push the play more because of his speed, and with Sam getting him getting him the puck in better situations because he is a smarter player, I could see them getting better chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 It may seem counter-intuitive, but I actually think playing with Kane slows Jack down. He doesn't have to drive the play and is often just waiting to find out where the rebound from Kane's shot is going. If he played with Reinhart, he would have to push the play more because of his speed, and with Sam getting him getting him the puck in better situations because he is a smarter player, I could see them getting better chances. Good point. Reinhart doesn't have enough speed to be the primary puck carrier, but he has more than enough to allow himself to get into the right places and find the holes in the defence. I think we'd see a much more effective lineup by Housley opening his eyes and running something like: Girgensons - Eichel - Reinhart Pouliot - O'Reilly - Okposo Kane - Larsson - Pominville Baptiste - Griffith - Nolan Doesn't that look far more balanced, and a better usage of what we've got? I dunno anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 So he is a young Moulson? :P lol - perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted November 8, 2017 Report Share Posted November 8, 2017 I think the "whatever reason" is about speed and tempo. Housley has an idea of what he wants (maybe it's JBot's too don't know how close they are). In his future version of the Sabres his top line with Eichel on it plays full out and at top speed. This is how Eichel is at his best. Kane is a sniper who can also play at that speed so at this moment, he's the best option in their mind as they get Jack to think of playing that way, and that way all the time. Reinhart is a slower, sometimes thoughtful and more deliberate player. So they hoped he could be more dominant matched up against third lines that are also generally not the fastest or most skilled on the other team. By all rights, there is really no excuse for him not to be a dominating third line centre. If they move him back to Eichel's wing Eichel slows down to try to play with him, and this isn't what they want from Jack. As things are going, I doubt very much if Reinhart is part of their long term plan. I don't buy this argument because they have Pominville on the other wing. Pominville may be quick for an old guy but he's not a speedster by any stretch. If Kane and Eichel were consistently paired with another speedster than I could see the merit in the argument. The problem is that Kane and Eichel are both puck carriers. Splitting them up and putting Kane with a center like Reinhart (who isn't the puck carrier Eichel is) would allow Kane and Eichel the opportunity to both carry the puck more when they are on the ice. I think Reinhart would do a better job of putting himself in position to screen the goalie on Kanes multitude of shots as well as poking in some rebounds as well. It seems like too good of a match not to even try it. Kane is putting up SOGs at an Ovechkinesqe pace. Kane has 73 shots in 15 games and Ovechkin has 78 shots in 16 games so far this season. Reinhart is good in front of the net. Why has this not been tried? I don't recall it happening in training camp, preseason, or the regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Pommer is a temporary place holder for sure. I actually liked Bailey on that line but he has to be more physical. Why is Kane getting so many shots? Cause the D strategy of every team we play is - take away Eichel. The more he develops the more teams will key on him which is why you want him with a sniper - and Kane is our best sniper - and I'd prefer a physical body on the other side but they have gone with speed for now. I see the merit in that, it's a choice you can make, but you don't put another playmaker on that line. Look, let's get real on Reinhart, if he was any good at all why isn't he tearing it up playing against third liners???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Pommer is a temporary place holder for sure. I actually liked Bailey on that line but he has to be more physical. Why is Kane getting so many shots? Cause the D strategy of every team we play is - take away Eichel. The more he develops the more teams will key on him which is why you want him with a sniper - and Kane is our best sniper - and I'd prefer a physical body on the other side but they have gone with speed for now. I see the merit in that, it's a choice you can make, but you don't put another playmaker on that line. Look, let's get real on Reinhart, if he was any good at all why isn't he tearing it up playing against third liners???? He has never been asked to actually be an NHL center and we are seeing growing pains. If by January things are the same, then I will admit I am wrong and Reinhart will not be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 He played center when he first got here didn't he? Before we sent him back to junior? Pretty sure the original idea was for him to be #2 center and not a winger but ok, wait until January that's fair. I said in preseason at some point this year you'd see the "what's wrong with Sam" articles and I stand by that. The only reason they might not trade him is because he doesn't have enough trade value/interest to make it worth while. You might get a bust for a bust type deal but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 He played center when he first got here didn't he? Before we sent him back to junior? Pretty sure the original idea was for him to be #2 center and not a winger but ok, wait until January that's fair. I said in preseason at some point this year you'd see the "what's wrong with Sam" articles and I stand by that. The only reason they might not trade him is because he doesn't have enough trade value/interest to make it worth while. You might get a bust for a bust type deal but that's about it. He played the 9 games, and was ineffective at center. He was full-time in the NHL on RW for the next two years other than a stretch or two when there were centers injured that made room for him. He's good on the wing. This year is probably the longest stretch he's been at center in the NHL, so I'm OK with a bit of wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) Pommer is a temporary place holder for sure. I actually liked Bailey on that line but he has to be more physical. Why is Kane getting so many shots? Cause the D strategy of every team we play is - take away Eichel. The more he develops the more teams will key on him which is why you want him with a sniper - and Kane is our best sniper - and I'd prefer a physical body on the other side but they have gone with speed for now. I see the merit in that, it's a choice you can make, but you don't put another playmaker on that line. Look, let's get real on Reinhart, if he was any good at all why isn't he tearing it up playing against third liners???? Pominville is not all that fast so I don't know why you keep saying they are going with speed. Not slow doesn't equal fast. Kane gets so many shots because Kane actually shoots the damn puck. You need guys like him otherwise it becomes a nonsensical game of endless cycling while looking for some mythical perfect pass until you eventually turn the puck over. Sure that looks great for possession metrics but you can't win if you don't score and you can't score if you don't shoot. Sometimes a shot can be better than a pass but shoot first players needs to be on lines with guys who are willing to take a cross check in the back in order to screen the goalie, deflect shots and passes, and crowd the front of the net. Reinhart can be that guy, even if he eventually goes back to the wing. I just wish they'd try it for a few games whether they move Kane to a Reinhart centered line or they put Reinhart on the top line with Kane and Eichel. As for why he's not tearing it up against 3rd liners I have no idea. I'm not here to make excuses for him. Maybe he's not that good. Maybe he needs to be paired with a guy or 2 guys who are shoot first players. I hope it's the second option. Edited November 9, 2017 by Drunkard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Pominville is slowing down but he is still a better skater than half the roster imo and he can still shoot. They're trying others, but there really are few options on that side right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 If this board had placed bets as soon as the clock ticked to zero on April 10th 2015 in Columbus, or after the draft lottery had finished, on what the standings would look like three seasons into the future, or rather if Edmonton-Buffalo-Arizona would comprise the bottom three teams, I believe that the posters that still defend the tank now would have been laughing and putting all their money against it, probably being super snarky to the guys that never wanted to tank and are probably the least surprised people in the world that this is what is happening at the bottom of the NHL. What a horrific sentence. Thankfully my girlfriend is the one that works with words. And I'm allowed to say that because I was one of the snarky tankers that would have bet anything we'd be a playoff team experiencing highs as a fanbase that are unthinkable right now. Seriously. We ripped our team apart and have played two full seasons since getting the prize and are a quarter of the way through the third and sit in the same exact spot surrounded by the same exact teams three times as depressed as we were before it started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 I'll posit that if we hadn't tanked and instead drafted in the 4-10 range for four years and got Risto-Ehlers/Nylander-Werenski-Keller versus what we did grab in those years, without tearing it down to nothing, even if we accidentally took a Virtanen instead one of those seasons, we'd be a better team with a brighter looking future right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) Maybe the Kane and O'Reilly trade were made too early (meaning should not have been made) Its not as if Zadarov or Grigorenko or Myers or Armia SHOULDN'T have been traded, but maybe those trades should have happened later.....of IF you had the chance to trade them.....I don't know, I'm rambling here. BUT, looking back at things, I think the rebuild was 'sped-up' too much by Murray. I really don't know what moves should have been made instead though. In the past 3 seasons, the team that have finished BEHIND the Sabres at the end of the year at some point: -New Jersey -Arizona (twice) -Vancouver (twice) -Colorado -Winnipeg -Calgary -Columbus -Edmonton -Toronto Of those teams, how many of them have the Sabres stayed ahead of? It looks like Arizona is the only one you can say yes for sure to. Edited November 11, 2017 by mjd1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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