WildCard Posted August 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 WOW I must be the only one on this thread that is not a complete Homer but pays attention to the entire league. Jack is awesome and deserves to be paid. But not at McDavid money, or even above 10 mil. Pittsburgh is prime example of having star players take good contracts and not get overpaid so they can have a competitive team around them. Chicago on the other hand has faltered the last few years because they don't have enough good players to compliment their stars who are both making over 10mil. I get the argument that the cap will be going up, but we don't know at what pace. Again look at LA and Chicago, overpaid and now suffering. Well, first off, you're not. And 2nd off, the NHL salary cap in 2013-2014 when Crosby signed his deal was $64.3M. Crosby's cap hit is $8.7M, or 13.5% of the cap. Malkin signed his deal in 2014-2015. His cap hit is $9.5M, the cap was $69M, so his % of the cap was 13.7%. Very close to Crosby and Eichel. Toews and Kane each hold a cap hit of $10.5M. In 2015-2016 when they signed the deal, the cap was $71.4M. So they each held 14.7% of the cap. Chicago overpaid. The NHL cap for this year is $75M. Let's say Eichel gets a $10M cap hit. So Eichel has 13.3% of the cap, much more similar to the Penguins. McDavid on the other hand, at $12.5M hit, has 16.6% of his cap hit, much more similar to the Blackhawks. Now, when they have to sign Drasaitl to at least a $9M deal, and he's another 12% of the cap, the Oilers will have 28.6% of their cap (at the moment) tied up in two player. A similar number to what Chicago had at the time, 29.4%. So the Penguins did pretty much the exact same thing. Except, well, Crosby was 26 (historically when most players are just at the twilight of their prime, but this is Crosby we're talking about), and after multiple concussion issues. Please, tell me how Pittsburgh was much smarter in handling Crosby than we are Eichel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 You can't use contracts signed years ago as a basis for what Jack should get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 You can't use contracts signed years ago as a basis for what Jack should get paid. Why not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Why not You can't use the totals without context to the total cap. But I believe you already have said that. Others have just said Jack must get paid less than more proven guys who signed contracts many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 You can't use the totals without context to the total cap. But I believe you already have said that. Others have just said Jack must get paid less than more proven guys who signed contracts many years ago. Ah gotcha, my mistake. Thought you were referring to my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Ah gotcha, my mistake. Thought you were referring to my post No worries. I am in the camp that does not care what the cost is. Get Jack signed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Great post, WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Great post, WC. Seconded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 My curiosity is: how much would Eichel's agent's agenda have to do with the end result? I.e., what are the chances Eichel says "I believe in the team and don't want to put them in a position where they can't hire a supporting staff," and his agent says, "no, you're a star, we need to get you top $" ...etc etc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 My curiosity is: how much would Eichel's agent's agenda have to do with the end result? I.e., what are the chances Eichel says "I believe in the team and don't want to put them in a position where they can't hire a supporting staff," and his agent says, "no, you're a star, we need to get you top $" ...etc etc ? the agent works for the player. period. No agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 the agent works for the player. period. No agenda. They don't work for money? They're completely altruistic? Wow, amazing. Must be the only profession with such characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 They don't work for money? They're completely altruistic? Wow, amazing. Must be the only profession with such characters. they get paid...to do their client's bidding. not the other way around. if they don't the client get's a new agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Players (especially stars) hire agents who will get them the most $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Players (especially stars) hire agents who will get them the most $ that is not the agent effect you referenced. that is the client telling his agent what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Ok, let's back up a little bit. I'm intrigued by the whole discussion, and here's where I'm coming from: Jack Eichel is 20 years old. Are you saying you know for a fact that he cannot be influenced at all by an experience agent? I'm not saying I know, for a fact, he will be. I'm just asking the question. Just curious how you seem to be so sure of the answer. I'm assuming that the differences in contract amounts will amount to much more than just "chump change" for his agent, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JujuFish Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Using +/- and team record while he's been on it in a sport where the most dominant athlete of all time (a statement that umbrellas for Gretzky over all other sports as well) in an era where there was no parity relative today only won the championship 4 times in the 20 years he played, to determine the worth of a player Brilliance Ali? Phelps? Jordan? Bolt? Ruth? Gretzky might come out on top, but I'm not as convinced as you (though your point still stands). For Bolt in particular (since he's retired from solo sprinting now), this chart says it all. Fastest 100m times, athletes found doping crossed out: https://i.redd.it/smhoyyeeb4ez.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Ok, let's back up a little bit. I'm intrigued by the whole discussion, and here's where I'm coming from: Jack Eichel is 20 years old. Are you saying you know for a fact that he cannot be influenced at all by an experience agent? I'm not saying I know, for a fact, he will be. I'm just asking the question. Just curious how you seem to be so sure of the answer. I'm assuming that the differences in contract amounts will amount to much more than just "chump change" for his agent, right? I know where you are coming from and I know that the agent's desires are truly irrelevant. As an attorney, Fish, his agent is bound by a fiduciary duty to do what his client wants provided what his client wants is not illegal. You infer that the agent will try and push for the biggest pay day because that would benefit the agent as well. That is correct. However if the client says I know I can get 10 but will take 9 because it will pay off in the long run if we win a cup, the agent can't negotiate a deal for 10 because he will get a higher payday. If Jack pushes for a max deal it will be because he wants it and not because the agent convinced him. I represented many people and companies. My job was to lay out options and follow my client's wishes. There is too much downside for any reputable agent to do otherwise. Rosenstein a prominent NFL agent got in trouble and lost a ton of clients because he burned too many bridges and failed to deliver enough times that clients felt he was working for himself and not them. I do not think he was an attorney though. Also the model these agents work under is a bit different. They negotiate licensing, endorsements, recommend other advisors etc. They are a cradle to grave operation. A few dollars more on a 8 year contract is substantial to you and I but it pales in comparison to the total they make over the life of the relationship. That is why he will do what his client wants to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 I'm actually glad you replied to that extent, because what you say sounds well reasoned and believable, and it's an element of the business that fascinates me. It also piques my curiosity to consider the fact that Jack is 20 years old. At that age, there are probably people in hear ear, advising him on how to proceed at this juncture. How many 20-year-old's would know how to approach a deal worth tens of millions? It's a pretty fascinating scenario. We're all on pins and needles waiting to find out what reasoning from his end prevails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Don't worry about Edmonton long term, their GM screwed up the Bruins' cap numbers and he's well on the way to doing it again in Edmonton. I honestly don't think the issue with Jack will be the money but rather the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Based on the comments from Pegula it sounds like the sides are not that far apart. I expect a deal before the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) I know where you are coming from and I know that the agent's desires are truly irrelevant. As an attorney, Fish, his agent is bound by a fiduciary duty to do what his client wants provided what his client wants is not illegal. You infer that the agent will try and push for the biggest pay day because that would benefit the agent as well. That is correct. However if the client says I know I can get 10 but will take 9 because it will pay off in the long run if we win a cup, the agent can't negotiate a deal for 10 because he will get a higher payday. If Jack pushes for a max deal it will be because he wants it and not because the agent convinced him. I represented many people and companies. My job was to lay out options and follow my client's wishes. There is too much downside for any reputable agent to do otherwise. Rosenstein a prominent NFL agent got in trouble and lost a ton of clients because he burned too many bridges and failed to deliver enough times that clients felt he was working for himself and not them. I do not think he was an attorney though. Also the model these agents work under is a bit different. They negotiate licensing, endorsements, recommend other advisors etc. They are a cradle to grave operation. A few dollars more on a 8 year contract is substantial to you and I but it pales in comparison to the total they make over the life of the relationship. That is why he will do what his client wants to do. Piggybacking. Plenty of times, I've had clients tell me to just get something resolved reasonably and not fight for every last nickel. Plenty of times, it's been the opposite; fight for every last nickel no matter how long it takes, no matter the cost. Guess which group *generally* has the happier folks? Note that I don't work on a percentage basis like an NHL agent does, but it still doesn't matter. Your point is dead on; it is the client's interest that is paramount. Edited August 8, 2017 by Eleven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg3XU4uvfkw A reminder that we have one of a handful of current NHLers that can pull off a transition like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Just read and article saying that Eichel should only get between 7.2 to 8.5 million... I didn't know that it was still 2014. Eichel is a much more hyped player than Draisaitl and he’s also the best player on the Sabres, so he might get a bump in salary due to that status. Eichel should get in the range of what Draisaitl should get, $7.2 million to $8.0 million per over eight year. If he comes in higher than that, say $8.5 million to $9.5 million per year, that will set a new high bar for a comparable player to Draisaitl. At the same time, Chiarelli could argue that Eichel’s worth to the Sabres is inflated because he’s clearly their top player going forward, while Draisaitl slots in behind McDavid. http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/boston-bruins-leon-draisaitl-edmonton-oilers-david-pastrnak-peter-chiarelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Just read and article saying that Eichel should only get between 7.2 to 8.5 million... I didn't know that it was still 2014. http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/boston-bruins-leon-draisaitl-edmonton-oilers-david-pastrnak-peter-chiarelli Well, that's why. Anything Eichel gets, Drasaitl is going to reap the rewards of. Plus, not like anyone from Edmonton wants to admit Eichel is anywhere near McDavid, or better than Drasaitl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 While I think Eichel is better than Draisaitl, I have no real proof of that right now. That ankle injury to Jack can right off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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