JJFIVEOH Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to computers. I build them and I'm usually the one everybody turns to when they need help. But this one has me stumped. My own personal computer, I turned it on yesterday and it went into a continuous boot loop. By continuous, I mean three times. After three times it gave me several options to boot different ways. I went with safe mode. One thing that threw my off was, as soon as I turned the computer on I was back to standard resolution and the display was filled hundreds of horizontal red dashes (what you'd generally see with a corrupt driver, or bad video card). I decided I wasn't going to waste my time troubleshooting and went right for loading a previous image. Well, that didn't work and I could no longer boot into safe mode. For some reason, at that point, my boot order was changed. #1 was Windows boot manager, #2 and #3 were disabled. I re-enabled the primary drive to see if I could get back into safe mode and it says "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key." At that point I just decided to reload Windows. It went through the process fine, long enough to load it and get to the desktop. But, it didn't stay on long enough for me to even download a video driver because it just randomly rebooted. Then it went through the same process as before. A continuous boot loop, then the boot order changed, then it told me the same "Reboot and select..........................." If it was a single issue I would have suspected the video card. But the fact that everything else went awry says otherwise. I suspected maybe a PCU, but that wouldn't cause the boot order to change. Since it's multiple issues I thought it might be the motherboard, because that is the common denominator. I tried flashing a more current BIOS, that didn't change anything. I tried unplugging all my other drives, that didn't work. I tried different SATA connections, that didn't work. One thing that just dawned on me while typing all this, it could be the SSD. Because if the SSD is hosed up, the motherboard might not recognize it causing the "Reboot and select................" message. It would also hose up the display in that the video card can't read the SSD for the proper driver. On the other hand, if the video card can't read the SSD, it should just display in standard low resolution. But, it shouldn't have the little red lines across the screen. I'm stumped. Does anybody have any ideas? I can't even keep it running long enough to test the hardware. This is a custom built system. 2700K Asrock Formula OC Mushkin RAM Crucial M4 SSD Windows 8.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 faulty CMOS battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to computers. I build them and I'm usually the one everybody turns to when they need help. But this one has me stumped. My own personal computer, I turned it on yesterday and it went into a continuous boot loop. By continuous, I mean three times. After three times it gave me several options to boot different ways. I went with safe mode. One thing that threw my off was, as soon as I turned the computer on I was back to standard resolution and the display was filled hundreds of horizontal red dashes (what you'd generally see with a corrupt driver, or bad video card). I decided I wasn't going to waste my time troubleshooting and went right for loading a previous image. Well, that didn't work and I could no longer boot into safe mode. For some reason, at that point, my boot order was changed. #1 was Windows boot manager, #2 and #3 were disabled. I re-enabled the primary drive to see if I could get back into safe mode and it says "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key." At that point I just decided to reload Windows. It went through the process fine, long enough to load it and get to the desktop. But, it didn't stay on long enough for me to even download a video driver because it just randomly rebooted. Then it went through the same process as before. A continuous boot loop, then the boot order changed, then it told me the same "Reboot and select..........................." If it was a single issue I would have suspected the video card. But the fact that everything else went awry says otherwise. I suspected maybe a PCU, but that wouldn't cause the boot order to change. Since it's multiple issues I thought it might be the motherboard, because that is the common denominator. I tried flashing a more current BIOS, that didn't change anything. I tried unplugging all my other drives, that didn't work. I tried different SATA connections, that didn't work. One thing that just dawned on me while typing all this, it could be the SSD. Because if the SSD is hosed up, the motherboard might not recognize it causing the "Reboot and select................" message. It would also hose up the display in that the video card can't read the SSD for the proper driver. On the other hand, if the video card can't read the SSD, it should just display in standard low resolution. But, it shouldn't have the little red lines across the screen. I'm stumped. Does anybody have any ideas? I can't even keep it running long enough to test the hardware. This is a custom built system. 2700K Asrock Formula OC Mushkin RAM Crucial M4 SSD Windows 8.1 I'd create a Linux boot USB stick (or DVD, if you have a drive) and disconnect the SSD. This will eliminate software and driver corruption and if it boots and works without issue, means the rest of the system should be OK. https://mintguide.org/tools/317-make-a-bootable-flash-drive-from-an-iso-image-on-linux-mint.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 faulty CMOS battery? I thought about that, but that shouldn't have anything to do with random reboots. I'd create a Linux boot USB stick (or DVD, if you have a drive) and disconnect the SSD. This will eliminate software and driver corruption and if it boots and works without issue, means the rest of the system should be OK. https://mintguide.org/tools/317-make-a-bootable-flash-drive-from-an-iso-image-on-linux-mint.html I'll give that a shot. That would at least take the SSD out of the equation. Or maybe even be the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I thought about that, but that shouldn't have anything to do with random reboots. I'll give that a shot. That would at least take the SSD out of the equation. Or maybe even be the answer. Come to think of it, the CentOS 7 ISO image (another flavor of Linux) has a memory tester as part of the boot menu under troubleshooting. Mint may too, I don't have that ISO handy to look. https://www.centos.org/ As for the CMOS battery, I think it would complain at boot (perhaps something about "using default BIOS settings" or something similar) if that's the case. The default BIOS settings are usually pretty good though, so I'm not sure it'd cause strange reboots once the system was running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Come to think of it, the CentOS 7 ISO image (another flavor of Linux) has a memory tester as part of the boot menu under troubleshooting. Mint may too, I don't have that ISO handy to look. https://www.centos.org/ As for the CMOS battery, I think it would complain at boot (perhaps something about "using default BIOS settings" or something similar) if that's the case. The default BIOS settings are usually pretty good though, so I'm not sure it'd cause strange reboots once the system was running. I'm downloading Linux at the moment. Damn, is the Centos full version that much different from the minimal version? 7.2GB vs. 600MB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I'm downloading Linux at the moment. Damn, is the Centos full version that much different from the minimal version? 7.2GB vs. 600MB. I think 600MB version gets you a basic system with GUI. 7.2GB must be all the packages (many of which you'll never use) for the base and extras channels. The DVD ISO I have is something like 4GB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) I didn't do the memtest, but I did try and boot Centos using one RAM board at a time and this is all that happened. It went through the loading phase only to finish off with this. When booting, this is what the red lines look like. They didn't go away by disconnecting the SSD. A bad video card isn't going to prevent the computer from booting properly. Edited August 31, 2016 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Replace your power supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) Instal Adobe flash Edited September 1, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 I was thinking about this more, if you're getting the lines on the bios screen, I think we're talking hardware. I'd swap monitors, cables, and inputs, and video card after that. Power supply is a decent idea too, the capacitors in the power supply age over time which (I believe) lowers the output capacity. Installing Flash Player is a great idea too; just make sure it's an older one. The newer eco-friendly versions don't put as much emissions but they're a lot harder to work on. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 Here's what I just did. I'm wasn't convinced that the video card would be the issue because in theory, it shouldn't have any effect on the way the computer runs. Of course, when it comes to computers, nothing is impossible. I could be wrong and it might be more possible than I think. Either way, I forgot about on-board graphics so I bypassed the video card and ran straight from the motherboard. That worked, and Linux loaded just fine. So I tried a different PCIE bus to see if I didn't just have a bad bus, and it did the same thing as earlier. So far I'm cautiously optimistic and I'm in the process of installing Windows to see if everything runs smoothly with on-board graphics. If I can get to the desktop and to download anything without the computer randomly re-booting, then I'll be convinced the video card is shot. Still not 100% sure this is the solution, but we'll see. In theory, if the video card is hosed up, I should be able to put it back in and everything will be hosed up again. I really have no idea how a bad video card would wreak so much havok on the rest of the computer. But I'd rather replace the video card now instead of the MB/CPU. I've got no problem upgrading to a new MB/CPU but I'd rather do it later in the year. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 I put the video card back in after I figured everything was stable, sure enough the lines came back and the system rebooted itself no more than a minute into being on the desktop. Went back to on-board graphics and everything is fine. The weird thing about it is, whenever the video card was forcing the system to reboot, it didn't recognize my primary drive as being a boot drive. That's why it was telling me to insert a bootable drive. So I had to clear CMOS to get back to the desktop using on-board graphics. But, it looks like I'm shopping for a video card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 Geek Squad?...LOL well over fity Geek Squad is pretty much the answer. Geek squad is NEVER the answer for anyone FYI. Find a local shop staffed by people like JJ.UhOh? Not meant as a slap dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 I try to avoid Best Buy at all costs, Geek Squad is usually good for a few laughs. Didn't even dawn on me to try Linux, Matt saved me a ton of time. Working on comps is like working on cars, get a few good heads together and it makes things so much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmichii Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 Probably is your video card. But are you able to test the card in another system to make sure its at fault? I understand that your system works ok with onboard gpu but your psu is also under additional strain when you have the card in the system. If its the kind of card that needs its own power from the psu you might want to be sure that its the card and not the psu. My system was doing some weird things once in a while. Having problems accessing drives. locking up randomly. Thought it was the motherboard but i replaced my psu with a new evga psu and it instantly stopped doing all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 Probably is your video card. But are you able to test the card in another system to make sure its at fault? I understand that your system works ok with onboard gpu but your psu is also under additional strain when you have the card in the system. If its the kind of card that needs its own power from the psu you might want to be sure that its the card and not the psu. My system was doing some weird things once in a while. Having problems accessing drives. locking up randomly. Thought it was the motherboard but i replaced my psu with a new evga psu and it instantly stopped doing all of it. Ya know, that's not a bad idea. That would make some sense. You all mentioned the PSU, I never thought about it that way. I know the last two times it randomly rebooted, I was in the process of installing a driver, when the CPU would be picking up steam. I might see who I can find handy tomorrow that owns a PC I can swap some parts with to test before I go shopping. I do tend to go way overboard on the PSU so that even with my system maxed out it doesn't put a serious strain on the PSU. But, that doesn't mean anything, it can die whenever it wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 Instal Adobe flash My first laugh of the day, thank you :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 I try to avoid Best Buy at all costs, Geek Squad is usually good for a few laughs. Didn't even dawn on me to try Linux, Matt saved me a ton of time. Working on comps is like working on cars, get a few good heads together and it makes things so much easier. I'm glad it worked out, that's my go-to for stuff like this. So many issues can be software OR hardware that completely swapping out the software will often start you off in the right direction and it's as easy as plugging in a USB stick to test it (well, after you have the stick created and if your BIOS behaves). As for the video card affecting the system running, devices in the system have hooks that are pretty deep. If could have been crashing the bus (PCI Express, or whatever is current now) and taking everything down, or hold DMA (Direct Memory Access, if that's still a thing) open so the CPU couldn't read the memory, re-writing the wrong parts of memory, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 Probably is your video card. But are you able to test the card in another system to make sure its at fault? I understand that your system works ok with onboard gpu but your psu is also under additional strain when you have the card in the system. If its the kind of card that needs its own power from the psu you might want to be sure that its the card and not the psu. My system was doing some weird things once in a while. Having problems accessing drives. locking up randomly. Thought it was the motherboard but i replaced my psu with a new evga psu and it instantly stopped doing all of it. I was able to swap video cards into a different system, I put a good one in mine and the bad one in the other. Mine worked just fine, the other system wouldn't even display anything. So the card is toast. I like your thought process though, that makes so much more sense. In fact, it probably has something to do with it, the bad video card might be sucking up a ton of power leaving the system short so even though the PSU is good the symptoms are exactly what you say. I'm glad it worked out, that's my go-to for stuff like this. So many issues can be software OR hardware that completely swapping out the software will often start you off in the right direction and it's as easy as plugging in a USB stick to test it (well, after you have the stick created and if your BIOS behaves). As for the video card affecting the system running, devices in the system have hooks that are pretty deep. If could have been crashing the bus (PCI Express, or whatever is current now) and taking everything down, or hold DMA (Direct Memory Access, if that's still a thing) open so the CPU couldn't read the memory, re-writing the wrong parts of memory, etc.. Good points, some things you just can't tell. I guess it pays to do a little more troubleshooting even if you think you've got it figured out. I was ready to order a new MB/CPU. I might order another thumb drive just to have Linux handy, that makes so much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 My first laugh of the day, thank you :DI'm all software, no hardware :D But that joke is an old one from Reddit about some kid in an IT job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Glad you got it. I've had similar problems with a bad video card in the past. I was going to ask if you had onboard (seems fairly standard these days) and you had found it so excellent on finding the problem and of course unfortunately needing to find a new video card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Thanks! It can be a PITA to troubleshoot these things. It's all good, the part that broke was the weakest link. A damn good video card in its time, but it was holding the system back. Good timing, the new 1000 series Nvidia cards are a gigantic step over the 900 series. 1060's are faster than most 980's. Asus just came out with a nice 1060 that I just put in yesterday. Bang for the buck, a damn good card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) I just finished building my first PC and haven't yet purchased a video card as the i7-6700K came with a decent graphics chip to begin with. I keep reading up a video cards and continue to get more confused. I'm looking primarily to do video editing and not gaming. Any suggestions? My system is i7-6700K GIbabyte Z170x-Gaming 5 Motherboard 16GB DDR4 250GB Samsung SSD 750 EVO 1 TB Hard drive 650W Corsair Power Supply Window 10 Edited September 6, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 You're going to find for the most part that cards for editing and gaming are the same. The key is more RAM, and most video cards have plenty of them now. If you look at what is available, many even offer two versions, one with less RAM to save some $$. That's not where you want to save money for your purposes. I've been an Nvidia guy all my life. You get more for your $$ than the Radeons. Nothing wrong with the Radeons at all, they're pretty good cards. Just personal preference. You've got a damn good setup, get yourself a video card to match. Don't make that the weak point. When they release a new series, the previous models are taken off the market fairly quickly so you're not going to be able to save much by finding a leftover 780 GTX. The 900's are still out but they cost just as much, if not more than the 1000 series. I did some quick testing of my new Asus 1060 today (didn't have much time to get crazy) and it didn't break a sweat and I never heard it run. I suggest going with Asus, MSI, EVGA, or Gigabyte. If you get a 1060, you're going to be in the $225-$325 range. The 1070 and 1080 cards are for people that spend all day benchmarking and brag about their scores, there's just no reason to spend $500-$750 on those models when you'll never see the difference. Just months ago the 980 was the fastest on the market, now the 1060 is faster than the 980. So basically, the low end of the 1000 series is still faster than anything built up to that point. EVGA offers a single fan 1060, in the low $200 range. Most models offer either 3GB of RAM or 6GB of RAM. You'll want any of the 6GB models which is probably about $50 more. I really like this Asus 1060 I got. With three fans, it works less which means it's quieter. It's a big card but you've got room. Look on Amazon and Newegg and see what they have. Post up what you're interested in. And please, PLEASE don't use the on-board graphics, LOL! While that's good, it's still only for casual internet users who need battery life. Let the CPU do its thing and let a GPU do its thing. No reason to kill the CPU with added heat. And you'll never be able to edit with on-board graphics. Here's the Asus I got, and the Gigabyte I considered. https://www.asus.com/us/Graphics-Cards/ROG-STRIX-GTX1060-O6G-GAMING/ http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5993#kf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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