OT - opinions of interaction with police

[Randall Flagg]

My only interaction while driving was during my senior year of high school. I was driving my 9 year old sister home and I was in a bit of a rush because I had work scheduled uncomfortably close to the end of the school day. The car in front of me was going about 42 in a 55, so I waited for a clear spot and I passed them. As I was pulling back into the right lane, I saw an officer round the bend about 10 seconds ahead of us. I think he would have driven right by me, but the guy I passed, who I later found to be another high school student, decided to follow me really close because he was upset that I passed him. When the officer saw this, he turned around, and pulled me over. I did what I was taught, had the hands at 10 and 2 and had my license and registration out when he arrived at the car. He questioned me for about 10 minutes, about "playing cat and mouse". I kept insisting that I would never do anything like that, especially with my 9 year old sister in the car. I told him I had to go to work and that the car that I passed was doing over 10 mph below the speed limit. I don't think he believed me, because he didn't let the "cat and mouse" thing go. I was terrified because I had only had my license for a little over six months and had never been pulled over before and didn't know what to expect. 

 

He then claimed I "must have been going over 75" (which was not true, I was fully aware and in control of my speed, and I was back to about 58 when he rounded the bend ahead and first saw me), so that he "had to give me something." I got a ticket for "failure to obey a traffic control device", which I think was a claim that I hadn't gotten back into my lane before the center line turned solid, which was incorrect by about 100 yards, and I was told by the officer that if I tried to get it reduced in court he'd "make it even worse" for me. Didn't like that, didn't know what to say, was mostly just terrified, and confused because he didn't even mention the possibility of speeding or not making the dotted line until after I didn't admit to dangerous street games. I paid the fine, and haven't been pulled over since. I've also heard other not-great stories about that officer, which won't be rehashed here. The rest in the town are great from what I've heard and experienced, and any interactions with police I have had on foot/not on the road have been nothing but pleasant. 

[Sabresince70]

A number of years ago I had to call 911 for an ambulance for my dad. The next day I picked up the phone and accidentally hit the redial button. When 911 answered, I did the worst thing you can do. Hang up. Five minutes later an officer was knocking on the door. Despite my nervous, almost hilarious, "come on in, take a look around, I don't care" the words all running together, he just said have a nice day. I was surprised. I could have had multiple hostages.

 

More to the OP's interest, sometimes the office doesn't have a choice. I was driving a veteran home from a radiation treatment in Buffalo in my own car. He couldn't wear a seat belt because of the discomfort in his abdomen. We got pulled over in Ellicottville by an officer who must have had 20/5 vision to see it. Despite the explanation, my friend got a ticket. The problem was he didn't have a letter from a doctor stating he couldn't wear a belt. The officer was very respectful and almost apologetic. He was just doing his job. Unfortunately, the veteran never did have to pay the ticket, as he died a few months later.

Seatbelts are strange laws... I know of a chief who removes the "bells" from the seatbelt indicators in the patrol car because he won't wear them. NO ONE in his department will write that ticket. (Unless you hit key words when the officer is at your window...) 

[ubkev]

So, I get pulled over a lot(speeding, always) plus I work til 2:30am, so I'm a real big expert on passing field sobriety tests.)). I pretty much always get a warning. I'm always polite, I know the deal. My brother is Las Vegas Metro Police.

 

The only time a cop has ever given me a hard time was when I moved to Pennsylvania and was pulled over for rolling a 4 way stop. I had NY plates and a NY licence and this guy gave me the "you ain't from 'round here, are ya, boy?"

So now I'm thinking, great, I'm . I got some yocal who hates New Yorkers. I was right. He was a complete ass the entire time. Gave me 3 tickets. All the while I gave yes sir and no sir answers. It felt like he was intentionally trying to get me riled up.

[Sabresince70]

Randall,

Can't speak to him pulling you over (wouldn't be fair without "seeing what he saw", but if you were in PA at the time, the "failure to obey traffic control device pa vc 3111, was the cheapest ticket and carried no points against license. And it would be to the posted speed sign, not the lane change. The state has since made it an expensive ticket (fine went from $25 to $125) but it still carries no points. I will actually ask (If I am giving a ticket - 20 or more over) which one the driver would prefer (as long as he has not hit any buttons). Some would rather have the higher cost and no points, some would take the cheaper ticket. 

 

Side note, failure to use turn signals is $25 fine/no points. If you get pulled over for speeding, and the officer talks with you, and all is seemingly going well, how would you react to him coming back with a ticket for turn signals instead of speeding? I know of an officer that (since the state changed the 3111 fine, will issue a ticket for turn signals for when you pulled over to stop instead of the speeding ticket. It would not be what you were "pulled over" for, but would be much cheaper in the long run.

So, I get pulled over a lot(speeding, always) plus I work til 2:30am, so I'm a real big expert on passing field sobriety tests.)). I pretty much always get a warning. I'm always polite, I know the deal. My brother is Las Vegas Metro Police.

The only time a cop has ever given me a hard time was when I moved to Pennsylvania and was pulled over for rolling a 4 way stop. I had NY plates and a NY licence and this guy gave me the "you ain't from 'round here, are ya, boy?"
So now I'm thinking, great, I'm ######. I got some yocal who hates New Yorkers. I was right. He was a complete ass the entire time. Gave me 3 tickets. All the while I gave yes sir and no sir answers. It felt like he was intentionally trying to get me riled up.

Willing to share the municipality? I have no issue with New Yorkers. It's those damn Flyer plates in the front that get me :ph34r:

[Doohickie]

Excellent topic.

 

When I get pulled over, I usually get the ticket.  When I get pulled over, I pretty much always did something to deserve the ticket though.  Sometimes I don't get the ticket and I'm grateful. 

 

Here in Fort Worth, there are several divisions and the division letter is marked on the car.  The ones I see are usually N, S, E, W for the different sides of town, C for Central Division, and T.  T is for the Traffic division.  I was talking to one of the cops from the South division and he said he only gives out one or two traffic tickets a year.  The rest of the time he gives out warnings.  But he said if a cop from the Traffic division pulls you over, you *will* get a ticket.  "You see, the cops in the Traffic division are the ones who's mommas didn't love them."  In other words, their job is to give out traffic tickets all the time, and their job pretty much sucks, so don't try to "reason" with them.  They're just doing their job.

 

Back to getting pulled over.  As I said, when I get pulled over I pretty much know what I did to deserve the ticket.  My feeling is if I was breaking the law, I might as well pay the fine; it's my civic duty.  If there is an option to do so, I'll pick "deferred adjudication" or "probation" or the like, which basically means you pay the fine as "court costs" and if you stay clean for a specified period of time (3-6 months), the ticket points never get applied to your license.  Of course if you *do* get another ticket, you get the points for both tickets.  I've never run into the latter situation.  I would guess I've gotten 5-10 tickets in almost 40 years of driving.

[Sabresince70]

I wrote 10 tickets last year. Wasn't even the lowest in the department. We have some that wrote 75. Not judging, we just look at  the job differently. Last Friday I held the ladder for two different people that were decorating their house, had two ambulance assists, and made an arrest for illegal fireworks (the first time I get called to your house and say stop, stop. The second time I have to come, it cost you $300) 

[Doohickie]

The one interaction I've had with a cop that wasn't a traffic cop was when a cable truck parked outside our house and put his hazard lights (including the bright gumballs on top) turned on, at 2 in the morning.  He was out there several minutes, maybe a half hour, so I went out and asked him if he could turn his lights off since they woke me up out of a sound sleep.  He was real snotty and said no.  There were two guys in the truck and they were just in the cab talking, not doing any work I could see.  I went back inside, got my camera and took a picture of his "HOW IS MY DRIVING?" sign so I could report him.  He got out of his truck and told me to give him the camera.  I told him no, and if he touched me I'd press charges.  I'm not a small guy, so even with two of them, the decided not to take me on.

 

So I went inside and called the number and while I was on the phone, the police knocked on my door.  I opened it and the cop asked what was going on.  I told him what happened, and I asked if anything I did was wrong, and he said, "No, and in fact I'm not sure why they called us."  "So we're cool?"  "Yeah."  "Okay, good night officer."

 

That was it as far as the cops were concerned.

 

As for the HOW IS MY DRIVING number, they were quite concerned, took a full report and the next day I got a call from the guy's supervisor.  I sent him the pictures of the truck and the two guys.  Interestingly, they had no business reason to be there that night and there was only supposed to be one guy in that truck.  The guy asked me if I wanted him fired.  I told him no, but I wanted his assurance that this guy would never hassle someone like that again.  He gave me his personal cell phone number and said if I had any further problems, to call him directly.

 

That was it.

[ubkev]

Randall,

Can't speak to him pulling you over (wouldn't be fair without "seeing what he saw", but if you were in PA at the time, the "failure to obey traffic control device pa vc 3111, was the cheapest ticket and carried no points against license. And it would be to the posted speed sign, not the lane change. The state has since made it an expensive ticket (fine went from $25 to $125) but it still carries no points. I will actually ask (If I am giving a ticket - 20 or more over) which one the driver would prefer (as long as he has not hit any buttons). Some would rather have the higher cost and no points, some would take the cheaper ticket.

 

Side note, failure to use turn signals is $25 fine/no points. If you get pulled over for speeding, and the officer talks with you, and all is seemingly going well, how would you react to him coming back with a ticket for turn signals instead of speeding? I know of an officer that (since the state changed the 3111 fine, will issue a ticket for turn signals for when you pulled over to stop instead of the speeding ticket. It would not be what you were "pulled over" for, but would be much cheaper in the long run.

 

Willing to share the municipality? I have no issue with New Yorkers. It's those damn Flyer plates in the front that get me :ph34r:

Haha! Pittston, PA. My question is do some officers see out of state plates and think "free money, no way they'll go to traffic court to fight this."?

[Sabresince70]

Haha! Pittston, PA. My question is do some officers see out of state plates and think "free money, no way they'll go to traffic court to fight this."?

Not me! I see out of state, and think lost (we are one square mile, with farm land). In PA, if the person is from out of state, you can actually hold the driver for summary (tickets) to ensure payment. Way to much hassle for me.

And while I am sharing - there are three things I will always give tickets for, no excuse acceptable. Opening you door into traffic (yep, it is in the vehicle code) and failure to stop for pedestrian in crosswalk - moving violations - and parking in a handicap spot. Automatic. 

 

I have a friend who is automatic with inspection stickers, one who is all about your lights (headlights, taillights, brake lights etc....) we all have something.

[Randall Flagg]

Randall,

Can't speak to him pulling you over (wouldn't be fair without "seeing what he saw", but if you were in PA at the time, the "failure to obey traffic control device pa vc 3111, was the cheapest ticket and carried no points against license. And it would be to the posted speed sign, not the lane change. The state has since made it an expensive ticket (fine went from $25 to $125) but it still carries no points. I will actually ask (If I am giving a ticket - 20 or more over) which one the driver would prefer (as long as he has not hit any buttons). Some would rather have the higher cost and no points, some would take the cheaper ticket. 

 

Interesting. I got 2 points on my license and a $180 fine, that was in January 2013. 

[Sabresince70]

Interesting. I got 2 points on my license and a $180 fine, that was in January 2013. 

In PA? 

[Randall Flagg]

In PA? 

Nah, NY. 

[Sabresince70]

OK. Can't speak to NY law. It has always been the "gift" ticket here because of lack of points.

[wjag]

It occurred to me I wasn't being fair by not giving at least a little of my view... so

 

When I pull a car over, let's say for speeding, I have choices (every dept. is different, though). If I am timing in a 25 MPH zone, by state law, I have to give 10 over to stop for speeding (state police only need 5). I give 15. So I will not pull someone over for less than 40. If you are going between 40 and 45, and you don't hit certain buttons when I get to the window (and all of your paperwork is good) it is a warning. If you are over 45 and don't , in my mind, have a good reason, you are getting a ticket. It may not be for the full 20 over, but you are getting something. I made this rule for myself shortly after I was hired, my chief has no problems with it, and I stick to it. Race, sex, nothing matters (only attitude). 

 

And yes, nervous. every time. I find myself going to the passenger's side more and more these days.

 

 

I enjoy driving.. Always have.   Know what I mean?

 

So when I do get questioned about my enjoyment, I am always respectful.  I have been questioned so many times now in so many states (would you believe 10 states and 1 jurisdiction, with some states multiple times :-)) that it is rather pro forma for me.  I expect to be counseled about my enjoyment and look at it as the cost of my enjoyment.   True statement:  I have been let go on my last six, yes six counseling sessions with a warning.  When I tell my friends and family this they all seem incredulous of this. My response:  "I have paid my lifetime deductible"..   I could tell you stories...  All my counseling sessions that carried a fee have a funny component to them.  I always have paid my fee, no questions, quibbles or squabbles.

 

I sincerely appreciate your position and mine and respect you for doing it.  Thank you for your service.

 

Edit:  I should also say that I respect the 40s and 30s.  My enjoyment comes on the Interstate and yes, I have been counseled in PA. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by wjag

[Weave]

It sounds like Qwk has issues similar to the issues I have with law enforcement tactics.  Fishing for excuses to hammer you.  A Greatful Dead bumper sticker should never result in a cop trying to trick you into allowing him to search your car.  Odor of pot?  Dilated eyes? Yes, try to get that car searched.  A bumper sticker giving you reason to badger your way into a search?  Now you are being a fecking bully.  

 

The incident that changed my perspectives on law enforcement happened around 15 years ago.  My 66 year old FIL was home recuperating from angioplasty to clear up a blockage in one of his arteries.  It was a Friday.  They went in through his groin.  About 11:30 that evening he felt a pop in his groin and intense pain.  He figured out right away that his femoral artery burst where they went in.  He called for his wife to get the car going, they needed to get to the hospital NOW!  My MIL raced through the streets of Cheektowaga to get him to St. Joes.  On the way his condition was deteriorating rapidly.  He was pale and his lips were starting to turn blue as they reached Harlem Road.  When the car crested the railroad bridge they saw a roadblock for a sobriety checkpoint ahead.  MIL pulled out of her lane of traffic and pulled up to the officers.  The nearest officer ran up to her car and screamed for her to get back in line.  By now my MIL was near hysterical.  She told the cop that they needed to get to the hospital (less than 1/2 mile away).  He told her that if they needed medical help he'd call an ambulance, if not she needs to get in line.  In panic, my MIL ran the roadblock and headed for the hospital, cop cars chasing her.  She pulled into St. Joes and ran into the lobby to get help as the police cars were pulling into the parking lot.  Hospital staff ran out with her and got FIL into a wheelchair and starting checking his vitals.  His heart stopped right there in the hospital lobby.  Fortunately, the good doctors at St. Joes were able to get his heart restarted.  He lost over 2 liters of blood when his femoral artery burst.

That cop couldn't see that my FIL was plainly in distress?  He couldn't detect the panic in my MIL and understand that this isn't the time or place to exert command and control?  He couldn't sense that what this retired couple needed was an immediate escort to the hospital less than 1/2 mile up the road, not a screamed lesson in getting in line.

 

Pisses me off all over again.

[PASabreFan]

Sabresince70, you talk about cutting breaks if the citizen hasn't "hit any buttons." Almost everyone knows that if you're respectful and nice to the officer, it benefits you. Can I quibble with this?

 

I've gotten one speeding ticket, after going at least 80 in a 70 in West Virginia (just like everyone else, but I passed and stayed in the left lane, so I was asking for it). I was nice, asked the officer if he's been working out, or words to that effect, so he wrote it less than 10 under the speed limit, which saved me some money. But why should attitude count?

 

It seems like it accentuates the power differential in the situation. "Ya'll be real nice to me and ain't nothin' bad gunna happen." Sheriff Buford T. Pusser.

 

Does a citizen give up his free speech rights in that situation? When there's a penalty for calling you an incompetent bum, I'd say that right has been lost.

[#freejame]

When I pull a car over, let's say for speeding, I have choices (every dept. is different, though). If I am timing in a 25 MPH zone, by state law, I have to give 10 over to stop for speeding (state police only need 5). I give 15. So I will not pull someone over for less than 40. If you are going between 40 and 45, and you don't hit certain buttons when I get to the window (and all of your paperwork is good) it is a warning. If you are over 45 and don't , in my mind, have a good reason, you are getting a ticket.

I'm not sure what your jurisdiction is like, but if my local police weren't pulling people over going that fast in a 25 MPH zone I would be furious. In my experience, the lower the speed limit is, the more residential the area is. Driving faster than intended in an area around children is reckless and inexcusable and those speeds should be an indicator of their presence.  

[Weave]

Sabresince70, you talk about cutting breaks if the citizen hasn't "hit any buttons." Almost everyone knows that if you're respectful and nice to the officer, it benefits you. Can I quibble with this?

 

I've gotten one speeding ticket, after going at least 80 in a 70 in West Virginia (just like everyone else, but I passed and stayed in the left lane, so I was asking for it). I was nice, asked the officer if he's been working out, or words to that effect, so he wrote it less than 10 under the speed limit, which saved me some money. But why should attitude count?

 

It seems like it accentuates the power differential in the situation. "Ya'll be real nice to me and ain't nothin' bad gunna happen." Sheriff Buford T. Pusser.

 

Does a citizen give up his free speech rights in that situation? When there's a penalty for calling you an incompetent bum, I'd say that right has been lost.

 

:wub:

[Sabresince70]

It sounds like Qwk has issues similar to the issues I have with law enforcement tactics.  Fishing for excuses to hammer you.  A Greatful Dead bumper sticker should never result in a cop trying to trick you into allowing him to search your car.  Odor of pot?  Dilated eyes? Yes, try to get that car searched.  A bumper sticker giving you reason to badger your way into a search?  Now you are being a fecking bully.  

 

The incident that changed my perspectives on law enforcement happened around 15 years ago.  My 66 year old FIL was home recuperating from angioplasty to clear up a blockage in one of his arteries.  It was a Friday.  They went in through his groin.  About 11:30 that evening he felt a pop in his groin and intense pain.  He figured out right away that his femoral artery burst where they went in.  He called for his wife to get the car going, they needed to get to the hospital NOW!  My MIL raced through the streets of Cheektowaga to get him to St. Joes.  On the way his condition was deteriorating rapidly.  He was pale and his lips were starting to turn blue as they reached Harlem Road.  When the car crested the railroad bridge they saw a roadblock for a sobriety checkpoint ahead.  MIL pulled out of her lane of traffic and pulled up to the officers.  The nearest officer ran up to her car and screamed for her to get back in line.  By now my MIL was near hysterical.  She told the cop that they needed to get to the hospital (less than 1/2 mile away).  He told her that if they needed medical help he'd call an ambulance, if not she needs to get in line.  In panic, my MIL ran the roadblock and headed for the hospital, cop cars chasing her.  She pulled into St. Joes and ran into the lobby to get help as the police cars were pulling into the parking lot.  Hospital staff ran out with her and got FIL into a wheelchair and starting checking his vitals.  His heart stopped right there in the hospital lobby.  Fortunately, the good doctors at St. Joes were able to get his heart restarted.  He lost over 2 liters of blood when his femoral artery burst.

That cop couldn't see that my FIL was plainly in distress?  He couldn't detect the panic in my MIL and understand that this isn't the time or place to exert command and control?  He couldn't sense that what this retired couple needed was an immediate escort to the hospital less than 1/2 mile up the road, not a screamed lesson in getting in line.

 

Pisses me off all over again.

I am true sorry for your experience, and I can again, stress, there are good and bad everywhere. 

[Weave]

I am true sorry for your experience, and I can again, stress, there are good and bad everywhere. 

 

I feel kinda bad.  You may just get piled on here.  And I don't mean to disrespect you.  I wish you guys didn't so closely honor that thin blue line and deal with the bad more readily, and decisively.  You guys lost an ally that day.

 

Actually, you lost a family of allies.

Edited December 3, 2015 by We've

[qwksndmonster]

I am true sorry for your experience, and I can again, stress, there are good and bad everywhere. 

The problem, though, is that there's no way to distinguish between a good and bad cop on sight, so all cops scare the ###### out of me on principle.

Edited December 3, 2015 by qwksndmonster

[PASabreFan]

The problem, though, is that there's no way to distinguish between a good and bad cop on sight, so all cops scare the ###### out of me on principle.

You think they're not equally afraid of you? You'd send a shiver down Serpico's spine.

Edited December 3, 2015 by pASabreFan

[Sabresince70]

Sabresince70, you talk about cutting breaks if the citizen hasn't "hit any buttons." Almost everyone knows that if you're respectful and nice to the officer, it benefits you. Can I quibble with this?

 

I've gotten one speeding ticket, after going at least 80 in a 70 in West Virginia (just like everyone else, but I passed and stayed in the left lane, so I was asking for it). I was nice, asked the officer if he's been working out, or words to that effect, so he wrote it less than 10 under the speed limit, which saved me some money. But why should attitude count?

 

It seems like it accentuates the power differential in the situation. "Ya'll be real nice to me and ain't nothin' bad gunna happen." Sheriff Buford T. Pusser.

 

Does a citizen give up his free speech rights in that situation? When there's a penalty for calling you an incompetent bum, I'd say that right has been lost.

I don't know if it is "cutting breaks" or not escalating it if they don't hit buttons. Everyone is "getting the break" from the beginning. The ones who get personal, use language that I wouldn't use in public or with someone I don't know, or create issues that hadn't existed (Safety wise) Earn the ticket (full price, letter of the law, whatever term you want to use). Breaks, I guess if you refer to someone with (to me) a good reason for whatever they did getting a warning, yep I admit I can be had for certain sob stories (usually won't punish someone trying to get to work, especially if I am aware of traffic problems in the area may have caused him to be late). You don't have to do anything  special. I don't need or expect compliments/whatever. I also don't feel I need to be abused for doing my job. That I do not apologize for.

[qwksndmonster]

You think they're not equally afraid of you? You'd send a shiver down Serpico's spine.

[PASabreFan]

I don't know if it is "cutting breaks" or not escalating it if they don't hit buttons. Everyone is "getting the break" from the beginning. The ones who get personal, use language that I wouldn't use in public or with someone I don't know, or create issues that hadn't existed (Safety wise) Earn the ticket (full price, letter of the law, whatever term you want to use). Breaks, I guess if you refer to someone with (to me) a good reason for whatever they did getting a warning, yep I admit I can be had for certain sob stories (usually won't punish someone trying to get to work, especially if I am aware of traffic problems in the area may have caused him to be late). You don't have to do anything  special. I don't need or expect compliments/whatever. I also don't feel I need to be abused for doing my job. That I do not apologize for.

Thank you, sir. :) You really rang the bell with this thread. It could go on for awhile.