Eleven Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Yeah. I mean, Miller was always the guy I wanted here so that we might avoid goalie purgatory while developing our own goaltenders internally. I just don't put much stock in bringing goalies in from the outside just because they've had some good outings. I mean, who was the last goalie to move teams and actually do anything consistently good? Patrick Roy? Belfour? When has this worked out for anyone in recent history? Hiller just won a series. Bishop has been pretty consistent. Luongo was traded twice before landing in Vancouver and he was consistently good there. You may not consider Bobrovsky consistent, but he has a Vezina. Dubnyk has played well since the trade to Minnesota. Actually, he was pretty good in Arizona after being traded there, too. I don't see a problem in grabbing a goalie from elsewhere. In fact, it's probably the easiest position to fill in from elsewhere. I also don't want to wait forever while the Sabres develop their own guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Yeah. I mean, Miller was always the guy I wanted here so that we might avoid goalie purgatory while developing our own goaltenders internally. I just don't put much stock in bringing goalies in from the outside just because they've had some good outings. I mean, who was the last goalie to move teams and actually do anything consistently good? Patrick Roy? Belfour? When has this worked out for anyone in recent history? Ben Bishop comes to mind off the top of my head. Steve Mason would be another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Yeah. I mean, Miller was always the guy I wanted here so that we might avoid goalie purgatory while developing our own goaltenders internally. I just don't put much stock in bringing goalies in from the outside just because they've had some good outings. I mean, who was the last goalie to move teams and actually do anything consistently good? Patrick Roy? Belfour? When has this worked out for anyone in recent history? In addition to the names 11 listed, off the top of my head I come up with Bernier, Schneider (although he wasn't cheap), Elliott, Smith, Halak. There's probably others I'm not remembering. Seems pretty common to me, and appears to be a low cost high reward option. Edited April 26, 2015 by TrueBluePhD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I would love Talbot, but there is NFW the Rangers make that trade. Probably not. I was going to go higher but I know somebody (maybe not you) always puts the list of backup goalies that went for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hiller just won a series. Bishop has been pretty consistent. Luongo was traded twice before landing in Vancouver and he was consistently good there. You may not consider Bobrovsky consistent, but he has a Vezina. Dubnyk has played well since the trade to Minnesota. Actually, he was pretty good in Arizona after being traded there, too. I don't see a problem in grabbing a goalie from elsewhere. In fact, it's probably the easiest position to fill in from elsewhere. I also don't want to wait forever while the Sabres develop their own guy. Ben Bishop comes to mind off the top of my head. Steve Mason would be another. In addition to the names 11 listed, off the top of my head I come up with Bernier, Schneider (although he wasn't cheap), Elliott, Smith, Halak. There's probably others I'm not remembering. Seems pretty common to me, and appears to be a low cost high reward option. Any Stanley Cups in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Any Stanley Cups in there?Ask again in ten years. Goalies that were with another organization before winning a cup since 2000: Hasek Giguere Rask Khabibulin Roy Those that weren't: Osgood (he did return to Detroit after playing elsewhere to win a cup in 2008) Quick Crawford Fleury Niemi Ward Brodeur 5-7... Pretty close. Osgood counting on both sides would make it 6-7. Edited April 26, 2015 by Hoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Any Stanley Cups in there? Really? Do you think any of the guys in the Sabres' system are ever going to win one as a starter? Anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Any Stanley Cups in there? I'll consider that your concession in this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Really? Do you think any of the guys in the Sabres' system are ever going to win one as a starter? Anywhere? If they aren't then why would someone from another organization have any better chance? I'll consider that your concession in this debate. Sure if you wanna wuss out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Ward, Quick, Niemi, Crawford, Fleury Are there any other active Stanley Cup Winning goalies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Ask again in ten years. Goalies that were with another organization before winning a cup since 2000: Hasek Giguere Rask Khabibulin Roy Those that weren't: Osgood (he did return to Detroit after playing elsewhere to win a cup in 2008) Quick Crawford Fleury Niemi Ward Brodeur 5-7... Pretty close. Osgood counting on both sides would make it 6-7. And most of those that did win were brought in late in their careers, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 If they aren't then why would someone from another organization have any better chance? Sure if you wanna wuss out. Because they're better goalies. Ward, Quick, Niemi, Crawford, Fleury Are there any other active Stanley Cup Winning goalies? Excellent point. There must be 27 worthless starters out there. And most of those that did win were brought in late in their careers, no? Not sure that's correct (certainly it is for Hasek), but who cares? Bring in someone in the second half of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Who are the Canucks trading: Markstrom, Lack or Miller? And are we interested in any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Because they're better goalies. Excellent point. There must be 27 worthless starters out there. Not sure that's correct (certainly it is for Hasek), but who cares? Bring in someone in the second half of his career. All I am arguing is my stance, which has just as much evidence as yours. There's this weird trend in the league right now where moron GM's make trades for goalies with this notion that it'll actually matter on their crap team. It simply doesn't matter who plays net for this team until the team itself is good. There is no point tying up money in "big name free agent" goalies. It will almost certainly turn out to have been a waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Ask again in ten years. Goalies that were with another organization before winning a cup since 2000: Hasek Giguere Rask Khabibulin Roy Those that weren't: Osgood (he did return to Detroit after playing elsewhere to win a cup in 2008) Quick Crawford Fleury Niemi Ward Brodeur 5-7... Pretty close. Osgood counting on both sides would make it 6-7. Quibbling, but Rask was the backup in '11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 This team needs a young goalie who is ready to develop with the core, preferably as soon as this year. Don't see that guy in the organization right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 All I am arguing is my stance, which has just as much evidence as yours. There's this weird trend in the league right now where moron GM's make trades for goalies with this notion that it'll actually matter on their crap team. It simply doesn't matter who plays net for this team until the team itself is good. There is no point tying up money in "big name free agent" goalies. It will almost certainly turn out to have been a waste. wait, are you against trading for a cheap backup, or signing a big name FA? Both? Sign a low level FA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 wait, are you against trading for a cheap backup, or signing a big name FA? Both? Sign a low level FA? Sign a low level FA. Maybe a vet or someone who's stock is low but will be able to take a beating over the next year or two until a goalie in this system is ready to step up. We've already got Johnson, we don't need anything else really. I'd take Lindback back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottosmagic13 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) From Hockeybuzz: Niemi, Antti Fasth, Viktor Ramo, Karri Neuvirth, Michal Harding, Josh Gustavsson, Jonas Budaj, Peter Enroth, Jhonas Ellis, Dan Emery, Ray Greiss, Thomas Lindback, Anders Dubnyk, Devan Labarbera, Jason Leggio, David Bachman, Richard Clemmensen, Scott MacDonald, Joey MacIntyre, Drew McElhinney, Curtis Zepp, Rob Curry, John Leighton, Michael McKenna, Mike Thiessen, Brad The names that jump out at me are Niemi, Fasth, Neuvirth, Budaj and Leighton. Then again I'm not familiar with west coast back-ups. Of those I wouldn't mind Niemi or Neuvirth. Any other prospects would have to be gotten in trade; I wouldn't guess to who we could get or how we'd get them. Edit: had a nice spreadsheet but SS destroyed it. Edited April 26, 2015 by Ottosmagic13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Quibbling, but Rask was the backup in '11. But he was a Leaf before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 That's a nice list of goalies, Hoss. It should be noted that of the goalies on the first part of your list only Roy, I believe, also won the cup with their previous team ... Montreal in 1986 and 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Sign a low level FA. Maybe a vet or someone who's stock is low but will be able to take a beating over the next year or two until a goalie in this system is ready to step up. We've already got Johnson, we don't need anything else really. I'd take Lindback back. I think that's just fine, and if that's how it rolls out in October, I'd be totally cool with that. If I can give another youngish guy with NHL experience a chance in the meantime, and it only costs me a <3rd line prospect or/and a later than 3rd round pick, I'm game. I agree that right now, goalies just kind of happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I think I would sign Neuvirth as the starter and keep Lilndback and Johnson as the possible backups. Let the Lindback and Johnson fight it out for the backup. Neuvirth was good when he got the majority of the playing time after Enroth left. If he can duplicate that, he'd be set until one of the prospects comes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Quibbling, but Rask was the backup in '11. But he was a Leaf before that. No, Taro's right. I didn't include backups on the list. Completely missed Tim Thomas. So 5-8. I think I would sign Neuvirth as the starter and keep Lilndback and Johnson as the possible backups. Let the Lindback and Johnson fight it out for the backup. Neuvirth was good when he got the majority of the playing time after Enroth left. If he can duplicate that, he'd be set until one of the prospects comes along. No thanks. I do not think it's smart to put money on Lindback to continue his hot streak after he was brutal elsewhere for a time. Neuvirth has been bad for the Isles. I don't think we should judge goaltenders by how they played here considering the changes we're about to endure. Sign a low level FA. Maybe a vet or someone who's stock is low but will be able to take a beating over the next year or two until a goalie in this system is ready to step up. We've already got Johnson, we don't need anything else really. I'd take Lindback back. I know we like some of our prospects, but they're all still long shots to be NHL starters... We see potential, but it'd be a surprise if any really lived up to their absolute ceilings. Smart money is on looking for a legitimate starter. We're 2-3 years away from any of the prospects factoring into a goalie "battle." We definitely do already have Johnson, but that's like not addressing the center because you've already got Natha.... Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Sign a low level FA. Maybe a vet or someone who's stock is low but will be able to take a beating over the next year or two until a goalie in this system is ready to step up. We've already got Johnson, we don't need anything else really. I'd take Lindback back. I find it very surprising somebody who spent all year saying "feck the tank" doesn't care about trying to upgrade in goal. And while I realize that we're a year or two away from really making noise in the playoffs, it may take us a couple of kicks at the can to get the goalie right. So I'd rather start kicking cans now than in a year or two when we're "ready" because if at that time we kick for the first time and miss, we're probably sabotaging a playoff season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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