Buffalo Needs A Star That Is Not A Goalie

[CallawaySabres]

Buffalo is filled with middle of the road forwards, a star goalie who can be elite at times and a decent defense. This off-season must comprise of landing an offensive talent that can show up in clutch situations and get the job done. The building blocks are here and the biggest piece is missing. Look at most of the teams in the playoffs - most of them have one if not two or more star players who shine in the biggest moments.

 

I don't know how they are going to do it but I just know they HAVE to do it. The simplest way seems to be via trade or draft since they have 2 firsts and 2 seconds this year. FIND your guy and if you have to rid yourself of a Vanek or Pommenville (or both), go ahead. This team has lacked identity for far too long and I sure wouldn't mind having SOMEONE show up like Parise did last night.

[inkman]

Can we all agree that this is common knowledge at this point?

[RazielSabre]

The Buffalo Sabres have been a team that has been about their goalie since Hasek, if not before. I think we can agree that needs to change but that sort of culture will take more than one season to change. Maybe signing a high profile forward will help, but who's going to want to come here after last season? Also where is the cap space going to come from?

[Meathead]

thats one formula

 

another one is to build a team around the backliners and win with a smothering defense and timely contributions from less than star tier players up front. boston just won a cup last season that way. the devils have won several like that, might again this season

 

lets not forget, lots of teams have stud forwards that never sniff the cup too

[HopefulFuture]

thats one formula

 

another one is to build a team around the backliners and win with a smothering defense and timely contributions from less than star tier players up front. boston just won a cup last season that way. the devils have won several like that, might again this season

 

lets not forget, lots of teams have stud forwards that never sniff the cup too

 

I don't buy this line of thinking.

Prior to the lockout, yes, NJ won a couple of cups in the 90's with "The Trap".

Post lockout, no team has used smothering defense to win a Cup. Boston's forward line up is Star Power for sure.

NJ is packed with Star talent this year as well, guys like Parise, Zajac, Kovalchuck, those names are star forward power.

NJ is not using what you proclaim they are this season to drive to the Cup, no teams are. The post lockout rules sent that type of hockey packing for the most part, even with obstruction penalties down over the past several years it's still significantly more fluid on the ice now than it was during the NJ Cup runs of the 90's.

[deluca67]

Buffalo is filled with middle of the road forwards, a star goalie who can be elite at times and a decent defense. This off-season must comprise of landing an offensive talent that can show up in clutch situations and get the job done. The building blocks are here and the biggest piece is missing. Look at most of the teams in the playoffs - most of them have one if not two or more star players who shine in the biggest moments.

 

I don't know how they are going to do it but I just know they HAVE to do it. The simplest way seems to be via trade or draft since they have 2 firsts and 2 seconds this year. FIND your guy and if you have to rid yourself of a Vanek or Pommenville (or both), go ahead. This team has lacked identity for far too long and I sure wouldn't mind having SOMEONE show up like Parise did last night.

I question how much of a "star goalie" Miller actually is. He certainly is a "star" in name, his level of play since the Olympics has been far less than "star" quality.

[LastPommerFan]

I don't buy this line of thinking.

Prior to the lockout, yes, NJ won a couple of cups in the 90's with "The Trap".

Post lockout, no team has used [1] smothering defense to win a Cup. [2] Boston's forward line up is Star Power for sure.

NJ is packed with Star talent this year as well, guys like Parise, Zajac, Kovalchuck, those names are star forward power.

[3] NJ is not using what you proclaim they are this season to drive to the Cup, no teams are. The post lockout rules sent that type of hockey packing for the most part, even with obstruction penalties down over the past several years it's still significantly more fluid on the ice now than it was during the NJ Cup runs of the 90's.

 

1. Anaheim.

2. Lucic and Krejci are Star Power? Compared to...?

3. Goal Scoring is down, the game is getting boring, star forwards can't be stars because they can't move with all the obstruction, if nothing changes next year will be 2004 all over again.

 

I question how much of a "star goalie" Miller actually is. He certainly is a "star" in name, his level of play since the Olympics has been far less than "star" quality.

 

lulz. Let us know when you find the answer to your question.

[RazielSabre]

1. Anaheim.

2. Lucic and Krejci are Star Power? Compared to...?

3. Goal Scoring is down, the game is getting boring, star forwards can't be stars because they can't move with all the obstruction, if nothing changes next year will be 2004 all over again.

 

 

 

lulz. Let us know when you find the answer to your question.

 

Seguin, Lucic, Krejci to name a few. They get scoring from everywhere, a lot.

 

I question how much of a "star goalie" Miller actually is. He certainly is a "star" in name, his level of play since the Olympics has been far less than "star" quality.

That really isn't the point of the thread.

[MattPie]

Seguin, Lucic, Krejci to name a few. They get scoring from everywhere, a lot.

 

I thought the line of thought here after Boston won was, "hey, I guess you don't really need a star center to win a cup".

[LastPommerFan]

Seguin, Lucic, Krejci to name a few. They get scoring from everywhere, a lot.

 

 

Boston Cup Year:

Lucic.... 30g 32a 62pts

Krejci.... 13g 49a 62pts

Bergeron22g 35a 57pts

 

(Seguin only had 11g/11a/22pts as it was his rookie season, so we'll look at the top three)

 

Sabres Last Year:

Pommer..30g 43a 73pts

Vanek......26g 35a 61pts

Stafford... 20g 30a 50pts

 

So based on top end forward scoring talent, we're just as good as that Boston team. My contention, and I believe Meathead's as well, is that the names that won that cup were Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, and Thomas.

 

Now with anaheim in 07, Selanne went absolutely bonkers that year with 48 goals, but the next three guys were Penner, McDonald, and Kunitz, not exactly superstars. But when you've got Niedermayer (the good one) and Pronger on the same blue line, you can win with good-but-not-great forwards.

[shrader]

I thought the line of thought here after Boston won was, "hey, I guess you don't really need a star center to win a cup".

 

They don't have a number one center. They just have about 85 #2 or #3 centers.

[RazielSabre]

Boston Cup Year:

Lucic.... 30g 32a 62pts

Krejci.... 13g 49a 62pts

Bergeron22g 35a 57pts

 

(Seguin only had 11g/11a/22pts as it was his rookie season, so we'll look at the top three)

 

Sabres Last Year:

Pommer..30g 43a 73pts

Vanek......26g 35a 61pts

Stafford... 20g 30a 50pts

 

So based on top end forward scoring talent, we're just as good as that Boston team. My contention, and I believe Meathead's as well, is that the names that won that cup were Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, and Thomas.

 

Now with anaheim in 07, Selanne went absolutely bonkers that year with 48 goals, but the next three guys were Penner, McDonald, and Kunitz, not exactly superstars. But when you've got Niedermayer (the good one) and Pronger on the same blue line, you can win with good-but-not-great forwards.

 

To be honest I see no real formula, 'star' teams can win but we see occasionally that as long as you have a team that is prepared to do anything to win and can adapt to an opponent the sky is the limit. Buffalo needs Pominville to step up as leader off the ice (he was a leader on the ice last year imho) and the team to work together and play with a chip on their shoulder to be properly successful this year. I believe we have the pieces, maybe the attitude lacked last year. Maybe the team felt too invulnerable.

[LastPommerFan]

To be honest I see no real formula, 'star' teams can win but we see occasionally that as long as you have a team that is prepared to do anything to win and can adapt to an opponent the sky is the limit. Buffalo needs Pominville to step up as leader off the ice (he was a leader on the ice last year imho) and the team to work together and play with a chip on their shoulder to be properly successful this year. I believe we have the pieces, maybe the attitude lacked last year. Maybe the team felt too invulnerable.

 

We may be debating something we agree on! There are many ways, including a couple of ways this team could go to get there, and soon. We could trade away a key defensive piece (Myers) and get true top end scoring. Even without Myers, I think there is enough on the blue line to have a top ten defense. Alternatively, we could lean on the D we have, and sure up the forwards with a couple of good-but-not-great scorers (Think 25g-50pts) and roll 3-4 lines night after night. I'd like to keep all options on the table until we see who's available June 22nd and what July 1 will look like.

[IKnowPhysics]

It's pretty clear that all three aspects of the game need to be top notch to win the Cup. Even if you say stack the defense, similar to the '06-'07 Ducks (Pronger, Neidermayer, Francois Beauchimin, Sean O'Donnell), they still had forwards that were stars and/or clutch (Selanne, Perry, Getzlaf, Pahlsson, Moen) and a red hot Giguere (0.962 SV%, 1.45 GAA, playoffs). Hell, you could expand the necessity of excellence to the front office; every cup winning coach since the lockout is revered.

 

I'm sure you guys remember that in our more recent successes, when we could hang on to games in which we had the lead, and if we were down, we never gave up, almost to the point where it seemed like scoring in the last 5 minutes was inevitable.

 

'06-'07 Sabres win percentage when leading at the end of the first period: 0.893 (1st)

'06-'07 Sabres win percentage when trailing at the end of the second period: 0.263 (5th)

 

'11-'12 Sabres win percentage when leading at the end of the first period: 0.690 (24th)

'11-'12 Sabres win percentage when trailing at the end of the second period: 0.113 (18th)

 

What's the difference on the ice? It's not Miller.

 

'06-'07 Sabres forwards that finished the regular season with 60 or more points: 7

'06-'07 Sabres defensemen that finished at least +15: 5 (all in league top 25 of this stat)

'06-'07 Miller: 0.911, 2.73

 

'11-'12 Sabres forwards that finished the regular season with 60 or more points: 2

'11-'12 Sabres defensemen that finished at least +15: 0 (highest was Sulzer at +8)

'11-'12 Miller: 0.916, 2.55

[LastPommerFan]

It's pretty clear that all three aspects of the game need to be top notch to win the Cup. Even if you say stack the defense, similar to the '06-'07 Ducks (Pronger, Neidermayer, Francois Beauchimin, Sean O'Donnell), they still had forwards that were stars and/or clutch (Selanne, Perry, Getzlaf, Pahlsson, Moen) and a red hot Giguere (0.962 SV%, 1.45 GAA, playoffs). Hell, you could expand the necessity of excellence to the front office; every cup winning coach since the lockout is revered.

 

I'm sure you guys remember that in our more recent successes, when we could hang on to games in which we had the lead, and if we were down, we never gave up, almost to the point where it seemed like scoring in the last 5 minutes was inevitable.

 

'06-'07 Sabres win percentage when leading at the end of the first period: 0.893 (1st)

'06-'07 Sabres win percentage when trailing at the end of the second period: 0.263 (5th)

 

'11-'12 Sabres win percentage when leading at the end of the first period: 0.690 (24th)

'11-'12 Sabres win percentage when trailing at the end of the second period: 0.113 (18th)

 

What's the difference on the ice? It's not Miller.

 

'06-'07 Sabres forwards that finished the regular season with 60 or more points: 7

'06-'07 Sabres defensemen that finished at least +15: 5 (all in league top 25 of this stat)

'06-'07 Miller: 0.911, 2.73

 

'11-'12 Sabres forwards that finished the regular season with 60 or more points: 2

'11-'12 Sabres defensemen that finished at least +15: 0 (highest was Sulzer at +8)

'11-'12 Miller: 0.916, 2.55

 

I think you're getting the cart in front of the horse on some of this.

 

The Sabres defensemen had better +/- in 06-07 BECAUSE the team was scoring like gangbusters. It had nothing to do with the GA and defense. The Sabres had 12 fewer goals against last season, and odds are the team would do even better with a healthy blueline. This of course is in line with scoring being down overall in the league. The 06-07 team was built on scoring like crazy (#1 in the league by 20 goals!) and finished middle of the pack in GA.

 

The Anaheim forwards outside of Selanne weren't world beaters, but they were sufficient. McDonald and Pahlson will never be confused for all-stars, and Getzlaf and Perry had a combined 113 games prior to that season. They weren't great yet, but they were good enough to win with Nieds-the-Greater and Pronger behind them. It's like I've said about the Hasek years. We'd have our cup already if management/ownership had simply put sufficient forwards in front of the Dominator, but alas, they never did.

[carpandean]

They don't have a number one center. They just have about 85 #2 or #3 centers.

 

I'd take that over 2 #2 or #3 centers and 83 wingers who (1) played center once in juniors or some other country, (2) were erroneously listed as centers because they are short, or (3) have been "converted" to centers by putting them there whether or not they can actually play the position. :thumbsup:

[TrueBlueGED]

In defense of Boston's 83 centers approach, they have Tyler Seguin, who absolutely projects as a stud #1 once fully developed.

[LastPommerFan]

In defense of Boston's 83 centers approach, they have Tyler Seguin, who absolutely projects as a stud #1 once fully developed.

 

But was an 11/11/22 rookie the year they won the cup cup with 83 centers.

[TrueBlueGED]

But was an 11/11/22 rookie the year they won the cup cup with 83 centers.

 

Yea he had little impact on their regular season. But in the playoffs he was huge when he had to play a few games Bergeron missed with a concussion. It should also be noted that the 83 centers approach some somewhat reliant on an opposing goaltender having a couple total meltdowns on the road.

[CallawaySabres]

The point I was really trying to make is that Buffalo does not have a "guy" who can punch it in when the game is on the line and the pressure is on. Do you have to have a Crosby to win the Cup? No but you do have to have someone who comes through when all the chips are in the center of the table. I really hope that Regier can package picks and players to get one of the top guys in the draft. Not only could you add a future star but you would also be getting rid of another core player (hopefully)

[LastPommerFan]

The point I was really trying to make is that Buffalo does not have a "guy" who can punch it in when the game is on the line and the pressure is on. Do you have to have a Crosby to win the Cup? No but you do have to have someone who comes through when all the chips are in the center of the table. I really hope that Regier can package picks and players to get one of the top guys in the draft. Not only could you add a future star but you would also be getting rid of another core player (hopefully)

 

So how do we get Joe Pavelski (7 GWG (3 in OT), 3GTG in 63 Playoff Games)? Franzen is even better (12 (2), 2 in 88) but I think you'd need dynamite to pry him free.

[IKnowPhysics]

I'd like to take moment to recognize Tyler Ennis in this discussion, who has just finished his second full(ish) season in the NHL.

 

When he came back from injury, which coincided with the start of his playing center for us, he had 12G, 17A, 29P in 33 games. If you excuse the Tim Connolly effect for moment, that's a season-long pace of 30G, 42A, 72P.

[LastPommerFan]

I'd like to take moment to recognize Tyler Ennis in this discussion, who has just finished his second full(ish) season in the NHL.

 

When he came back from injury, which coincided with the start of his playing center for us, he had 12G, 17A, 29P in 33 games. If you excuse the Tim Connolly effect for moment, that's a season-long pace of 30G, 42A, 72P.

 

I love T2, that line was an amazing weapon against the non-puck possession lines of the other team. If they (Folignisford) get control near our blue line they are off to the races, and they can finish. In other cases, Mr. Foligno has the strength to pry possession away along the boards and free up Ennis to skate around a bunch until he can (a) put it in or (b) feed a stalking Stafford and his great shooting%. But the key there is that the other team is trying to match their possession line against Vanek and/or Pommer, our top scorers. I don't see that happening as often in the future unless those two guys get (a) an improved Hodgson between them on the #1 line (possibly with a different RW) or (b) a new center in a trade that makes a real scoring threat #1 line. No one plays a possession line against Derek Roy, he does that job for them.

[5th line wingnutt]

Yea he had little impact on their regular season. But in the playoffs he was huge when he had to play a few games Bergeron missed with a concussion.

 

I agree.

[Marvelo]

Buffalo needs players who can turn it up at playoff time. Some players are great during the season then disappear in the playoffs and vice versa. We have to realize that the regular season is a waste of time and squeaking in is as good as winning the President's Trophy...the playoffs is where the hockey begins and Buffalo needs playoff performers, not guys who can pile up stats on weak teams.