Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Given the roster we have, I didn't mind what we iced today. I didn't see where Ennis, or Gerbe for that matter, were missed. Right now we have Vanek, Boyes, Adam, and Cody as our LW's and I am perfectly comfortable with that depthchart. What an interesting dilemma we could have. The depth chart is interesting. LW- Vanek, Hecht, Leino, Adam, McCormick, Ennis, Gerbe And Boyes played LW tonight too, didn't he? Yeah, a few of them could move to center. I could see Cody kicking Ellis to the bench when another LW returns. Then again, it could just as easily be Cody in the pressbox. I think Ennis' return in particular is really going to make a tough decision get made. Could we be seeing the end of the mighty midget era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Given the roster we have, I didn't mind what we iced today. I didn't see where Ennis, or Gerbe for that matter, were missed. Right now we have Vanek, Boyes, Adam, and Cody as our LW's and I am perfectly comfortable with that depthchart. What an interesting dilemma we could have. The depth chart is interesting. LW- Vanek, Hecht, Leino, Adam, McCormick, Ennis, Gerbe And Boyes played LW tonight too, didn't he? Yeah, a few of them could move to center. I could see Cody kicking Ellis to the bench when another LW returns. Then again, it could just as easily be Cody in the pressbox. I think Ennis' return in particular is really going to make a tough decision get made. Could we be seeing the end of the mighty midget era? Some of those guys (Adam, McCormick, maybe even Leino) might shift to center. Ellis is almost certainly a casualty of a healthy Sabres roster, and McCormick, IMO, should be, too. I know, there's healthy disagreement on McC. I don't think there is on Ellis. On the other hand, there should be some serious evaluation about Ennis and Gerbe and what each or both might return in a trade. I like 'em, but I'm not married to 'em, and the "mighty midget" point isn't lost on me. And in Ennis's case, I'm particularly concerned about mentality. Something about his interviews last year--his real rookie year, when nothing should have been presumed--got to me and seemed too cocky and Staffordesque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Some of those guys (Adam, McCormick, maybe even Leino) might shift to center. Ellis is almost certainly a casualty of a healthy Sabres roster, and McCormick, IMO, should be, too. I know, there's healthy disagreement on McC. I don't think there is on Ellis. On the other hand, there should be some serious evaluation about Ennis and Gerbe and what each or both might return in a trade. I like 'em, but I'm not married to 'em, and the "mighty midget" point isn't lost on me. And in Ennis's case, I'm particularly concerned about mentality. Something about his interviews last year--his real rookie year, when nothing should have been presumed--got to me and seemed too cocky and Staffordesque. The bolded part is something I am hoping results. I like both their games for the most part, and Ennis has shown to be a point producer that puts in a good playoff effort. But I think they have limited utility on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations. I think Ennis in particular could be a choice trade dangle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 The bolded part is something I am hoping results. I like both their games for the most part, and Ennis has shown to be a point producer that puts in a good playoff effort. But I think they have limited utility on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations. I think Ennis in particular could be a choice trade dangle. So neither should have ever been drafted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 So neither should have ever been drafted? Where did you dig that out from? Every draft pick has pros and cons. You makes your choice and takes your chances. Both beat the odds and became bonafide NHL players. I'm just not sure either of them developed so that they are appreciably more valuable to a playoff run than any of our other LW choices right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Where did you dig that out from? Every draft pick has pros and cons. You makes your choice and takes your chances. Both beat the odds and became bonafide NHL players. I'm just not sure either of them developed so that they are appreciably more valuable to a playoff run than any of our other LW choices right now. I don't see where either of them haven't developed as expected. If you accept that premise, then the only conclusion is that they should have never been draft for by any team with serious cup aspirations. Perhaps you think hey have fallen short somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 I don't see where either of them haven't developed as expected. If you accept that premise, then the only conclusion is that they should have never been draft for by any team with serious cup aspirations. Perhaps you think hey have fallen short somehow? Maybe it's that LW is a position where the Sabs are deep right now and can afford to make a trade. At least, that's how I see it. Can't speak for weave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 I don't see where either of them haven't developed as expected. If you accept that premise, then the only conclusion is that they should have never been draft for by any team with serious cup aspirations. Perhaps you think hey have fallen short somehow? You are reaching for something that isn't there. We have alot of LW's now. And they may no longer fit in the top 3 lines. And IMO the other LW's that are currently on the roster appear to me to be better suited to where the game is going. Nothing more, nothing less. You are baiting. "fallen short" *snicker* Maybe it's that LW is a position where the Sabs are deep right now and can afford to make a trade. At least, that's how I see it. Can't speak for weave. You weren't speaking for me but, well, you spoke for me. You get it. 10 internet points for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Gerbe brings a level of heart, effort, and tenacity that other roster players lack. If one had to go, I'd choose Ennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 You are reaching for something that isn't there. We have alot of LW's now. And they may no longer fit in the top 3 lines. And IMO the other LW's that are currently on the roster appear to me to be better suited to where the game is going. Nothing more, nothing less. You are baiting. "fallen short" *snicker* You weren't speaking for me but, well, you spoke for me. You get it. 10 internet points for you. Boyes and Hecht will be gone in a few short months. Cody is Cody. I don't see this depth after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Boyes and Hecht will be gone in a few short months. Cody is Cody. I don't see this depth after this season. Do you see Ennis and Gerbe as more effective that Boyes and Hecht in the playoffs? This season or next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Boyes and Hecht will be gone in a few short months. Cody is Cody. I don't see this depth after this season. Valid counterpoint. But guys like that--and as I said in the GDT, guys like that are necessary--can always be acquired. EDIT: Usually for a second-round pick, apparently. And a second-round pick, I read recently (but don't remember where) turns into an NHLer only 1/3 of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Do you see Ennis and Gerbe as more effective that Boyes and Hecht in the playoffs? This season or next? I don't see any evidence that the vets will be brought back, so we are really only talking this season IMO. I see Ennis at the top of that bunch. No one skates better on the team and he has young legs. He is just injured right now. Given that Gerbe is this team's spark speaks more to the team than him. However, unless the plan is to bring in MORE LWers than I keep the young ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Boyes and Hecht will be gone in a few short months. Cody is Cody. I don't see this depth after this season. I agree in full. Plus, I'd wager Hecht or Kaleta are shut down again this year for a period of weeks or more. I used to be a Cody fan, but he has really started to blend in this year. He's a great guy, and maybe he goes back to more edge when getting 7 minutes on the 4th line, but either the concussion slowed him down, or he is too worried about his assignments instead of finishing plays all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 I don't see any evidence that the vets will be brought back, so we are really only talking this season IMO. I see Ennis at the top of that bunch. No one skates better on the team and he has young legs. He is just injured right now. Given that Gerbe is this team's spark speaks more to the team than him. However, unless the plan is to bring in MORE LWers than I keep the young ones. So, now that I am finally able to get this strange little diversion turned back towards the intent of the thread............ What do you think happens when these guys come back from injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 So, now that I am finally able to get this strange little diversion turned back towards the intent of the thread............ What do you think happens when these guys come back from injury? Some of those guys (Adam, McCormick, maybe even Leino) might shift to center. Ellis is almost certainly a casualty of a healthy Sabres roster, and McCormick, IMO, should be, too. I know, there's healthy disagreement on McC. I don't think there is on Ellis. On the other hand, there should be some serious evaluation about Ennis and Gerbe and what each or both might return in a trade. I like 'em, but I'm not married to 'em, and the "mighty midget" point isn't lost on me. And in Ennis's case, I'm particularly concerned about mentality. Something about his interviews last year--his real rookie year, when nothing should have been presumed--got to me and seemed too cocky and Staffordesque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 So, now that I am finally able to get this strange little diversion turned back towards the intent of the thread............ What do you think happens when these guys come back from injury? Ellis scratch, Hecht or Kaleta hurt, if Kaleta healthy Cody scratch. Only when Lieno and Ennis are back do we have enough paper firepower to make a deal. Kassian may still go down and I wouldn't cry bloody murder as long as he plays every day. Maybe now he will learn to dominate down there after this stint and feel what it's like to do it again at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Some of those guys (Adam, McCormick, maybe even Leino) might shift to center. Ellis is almost certainly a casualty of a healthy Sabres roster, and McCormick, IMO, should be, too. I know, there's healthy disagreement on McC. I don't think there is on Ellis. On the other hand, there should be some serious evaluation about Ennis and Gerbe and what each or both might return in a trade. I like 'em, but I'm not married to 'em, and the "mighty midget" point isn't lost on me. And in Ennis's case, I'm particularly concerned about mentality. Something about his interviews last year--his real rookie year, when nothing should have been presumed--got to me and seemed too cocky and Staffordesque. Was I talking to you? :P :angel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 So, now that I am finally able to get this strange little diversion turned back towards the intent of the thread............ What do you think happens when these guys come back from injury? It isn't strange at all. "But I think they have limited utility on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations." begged a larger question given their age. They seem to be progressing as one would have hoped and if that is the case, and yet still have limited utility, then they should have never have been drafted in IMO. Lindy likes his vets. Young players will be sent down that can be sent down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 It isn't strange at all. "But I think they have limited utility on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations." begged a larger question given their age. They seem to be progressing as one would have hoped and if that is the case, and yet still have limited utility, then they should have never have been drafted in IMO. Lindy likes his vets. Young players will be sent down that can be sent down. There are usually 4 or 5 kids that get drafted by each team each year that shouldn't have based on NHL roster success rates yet they get drafted. Drafting 18 yr old kids is a high risk, high reward game. Just because a given player doesn't become useful to a SC contender roster doesn't mean they shouldn't have been drafted. I guess either I don't understand or agree with the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyone Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 I think it's too early to give up on, or get rid of Ennis. I guess he is really in the same position as Gerbe in that regard, but I don't think we have seen all that Ennis can do yet, and it'd be a shame to see him continue to develop on another squad IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 There are usually 4 or 5 kids that get drafted by each team each year that shouldn't have based on NHL roster success rates yet they get drafted. Drafting 18 yr old kids is a high risk, high reward game. Just because a given player doesn't become useful to a SC contender roster doesn't mean they shouldn't have been drafted. I guess either I don't understand or agree with the point. I'll ask it another way. What would Ennis need to do differently to be more useful? He's 22 years old and seems to be on track to be what we thought he would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'll ask it another way. What would Ennis need to do differently to be more useful? He's 22 years old and seems to be on track to be what we thought he would be. I don't have an answer. Maybe he becomes alot more interesting to me as an option if the mix of players he is with is different. His play is not soft like Roy's, but there is a soft-ness to his results, if that makes sense at all. And we have too many players with soft results. And I think today a guy like Boyes or Leino or Hecht better serves in the playoffs. Tomorrow may be an entirely different story. The other thing to consider is trade value. IMO no player is untouchable. They are all assets. Ennis may very well be our best forward asset in a trade scenario after Kassian and Vanek. That should be part of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 I don't see any evidence that the vets will be brought back, so we are really only talking this season IMO. I see Ennis at the top of that bunch. No one skates better on the team and he has young legs. He is just injured right now. Given that Gerbe is this team's spark speaks more to the team than him. However, unless the plan is to bring in MORE LWers than I keep the young ones. I don't see any evidence that they wont. What would we have seen by now? So far, I like the play of these two this year. If they have weak playoff performances, then you will most definitely be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 I'll ask it another way. What would Ennis need to do differently to be more useful? He's 22 years old and seems to be on track to be what we thought he would be. He would need to be St Louis. He's not, so you are right, he's right on track to be what we thought he would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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