Miss_The_Amerks Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Cam Ward only had 28 starts before he and the Canes won the Cup. No one is saying that goaltending is the only issue. IMO, at $6.2 mil a season it shouldn't be an issue at all. When you make that kind of investment you should have a clear advantage in goal over a team with a goalie making $900k. The Sabres don't have much of an advantage in goal if any. That needs to change in game #4 or you might as well have started Enroth. I know what you're saying. I know he's a solid goalie, and support him. But sometimes I wonder if Miller is worth what we pay him. Flame me if you want, but I think the Miller era is done, and it's only a few more years (if that) until Enroth comes in and more or less takes over as starter, should save us some money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Cam Ward only had 28 starts before he and the Canes won the Cup. No one is saying that goaltending is the only issue. IMO, at $6.2 mil a season it shouldn't be an issue at all. When you make that kind of investment you should have a clear advantage in goal over a team with a goalie making $900k. The Sabres don't have much of an advantage in goal if any. That needs to change in game #4 or you might as well have started Enroth. But why not put the blame were it really belongs, on the three forwards making a combined $17 million who cannot outplay three forwards making less then $4 million combined. It is absurd to think that because he makes 6 times what the other guy makes that he should stop every shot. Their 7 million dollar forward beat our 6 million goalie but our 4.5, 5.3 and 7.1 million dollar forwards can't beat a $900K goalie. That's the real disparity. He kept them in the game and if any of the aforementioned forwards could have made a play, that would have been the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 If this team needs to start its backup goalie to motivate our defense not to f*ck up then this series is already lost. Signed, Sergei Bobrovsky PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 But why not put the blame were it really belongs, on the three forwards making a combined $17 million who cannot outplay three forwards making less then $4 million combined. It is absurd to think that because he makes 6 times what the other guy makes that he should stop every shot. Their 7 million dollar forward beat our 6 million goalie but our 4.5, 5.3 and 7.1 million dollar forwards can't beat a $900K goalie. That's the real disparity. He kept them in the game and if any of the aforementioned forwards could have made a play, that would have been the story. $6.2 million to keep them in the game? That's like paying a QB in the NFL about $10 mil just to "manage the game." Is Miller the David Gerard of the NHL? If you want to talk forwards then start a thread about the forwards. I'm ready discuss Vanek not being the type of player to just take over games. He's a talent goal scorer but at this time in his carer I'm ready to say he is an accent piece not a center piece to a teams offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss_The_Amerks Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Signed, Sergei Bobrovsky PTR Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Cam Ward only had 28 starts before he and the Canes won the Cup. What is the content of this point? It is not like Ward came out of nowhere. People knew Ward was a stud the year after he was drafted, and he owned the AHL during the lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss_The_Amerks Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 $6.2 million to keep them in the game? That's like paying a QB in the NFL about $10 mil just to "manage the game." Is Miller the David Gerard of the NHL? If you want to talk forwards then start a thread about the forwards. I'm ready discuss Vanek not being the type of player to just take over games. He's a talent goal scorer but at this time in his carer I'm ready to say he is an accent piece not a center piece to a teams offense. Again, agreed. If you're paying someone top dollar, they should consistently be stellar. Not have a good season, and then "above average" the rest. For $6.2m, we should have someone that's stealing games, not just keeping us within striking distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 What is the content of this point? It is not like Ward came out of nowhere. People knew Ward was a stud the year after he was drafted, and he owned the AHL during the lockout. I heard Paul Hamilton others say the Sabres got glowing reviews for drafting Enroth from NHL scouts and front office people. Not to mention the kid just had a knack for winning games this season. His two regulation time loses were his 1st start that lasted 20 minutes and 1-0 loss to the Pens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I heard Paul Hamilton others say the Sabres got glowing reviews for drafting Enroth from NHL scouts and front office people. Not to mention the kid just had a knack for winning games this season. His two regulation time loses were his 1st start that lasted 20 minutes and 1-0 loss to the Pens. I see. Your comparison was between Ward and Enroth. I just wasn't following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I heard Paul Hamilton others say the Sabres got glowing reviews for drafting Enroth from NHL scouts and front office people. Not to mention the kid just had a knack for winning games this season. His two regulation time loses were his 1st start that lasted 20 minutes and 1-0 loss to the Pens. So even though a majority of the 8 real goals scored on Miller (1 might have been iffy) we are all ready to toss in the rookie. I called this thread 2 games ago and it reminds of another thread with a similar tone to it. Its the playoffs, not the regular season, you do not pull your franchise goal tender because that just shows that you have no faith, it has a better chance of breaking this teams spirit than making us into a tight cohesive unit. I am sorry but its to late for the switch goalie gimmick to work. Not saying it hasnt in the past for other teams like a detroit, but I am saying right now with this team it would be a huge tactical error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 So even though a majority of the 8 real goals scored on Miller (1 might have been iffy) we are all ready to toss in the rookie. I called this thread 2 games ago and it reminds of another thread with a similar tone to it. Its the playoffs, not the regular season, you do not pull your franchise goal tender because that just shows that you have no faith, it has a better chance of breaking this teams spirit than making us into a tight cohesive unit. I am sorry but its to late for the switch goalie gimmick to work. Not saying it hasnt in the past for other teams like a detroit, but I am saying right now with this team it would be a huge tactical error. Why wouldn't it show the Sabres would do anything to win? Is this not the Pegula Era? Is the Stanley Cup not the only goal and reason for existence? You got a kid on the bench that seems to just win games despite the .gaa and save%. It's like keeping Gerbe on the bench despite his knack for scoring late in the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Why wouldn't it show the Sabres would do anything to win? It would be a needlessly panicky and desperate move IMO. This series is on serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss_The_Amerks Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 So even though a majority of the 8 real goals scored on Miller (1 might have been iffy) we are all ready to toss in the rookie. I called this thread 2 games ago and it reminds of another thread with a similar tone to it. Its the playoffs, not the regular season, you do not pull your franchise goal tender because that just shows that you have no faith, it has a better chance of breaking this teams spirit than making us into a tight cohesive unit. I am sorry but its to late for the switch goalie gimmick to work. Not saying it hasnt in the past for other teams like a detroit, but I am saying right now with this team it would be a huge tactical error. You didn't really complete this statement. I'm confused, but I feel like you mean to blame the majority of the goals on the D. Earlier in this thread (I believe), d4rksabre made the comment that Enroth was making saves that "he had no business making". My thought I guess is that our $6.3m goalie should be making saves he has no business making. So if we're paying him this much, he should make a few saves in spite of our defense. He should be stealing games. He's not. I don't know what I would do in Lindy's situation with the goalies, but I wont jump down anyone's throat for suggesting a switch. I love Miller, but think he has played consistently wayyyy too average to justify what we pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 I know what you're saying. I know he's a solid goalie, and support him. But sometimes I wonder if Miller is worth what we pay him. Flame me if you want, but I think the Miller era is done, and it's only a few more years (if that) until Enroth comes in and more or less takes over as starter, should save us some money... Why would Enroth, if he is as good as Miller, be any cheaper when it comes time to give him his 'real' contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 You didn't really complete this statement. I'm confused, but I feel like you mean to blame the majority of the goals on the D. Clearly, I do. I'm baffled by those that don't. :beer: To win this series the D has to pull it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss_The_Amerks Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Clearly, I do. I'm baffled by those that don't. :beer: To win this series the D has to pull it together. So does the goalie. I wont put it all on Miller, but he needs to shoulder some of it. Comes with the check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Signed, Sergei Bobrovsky PTR How does this compare? Philly pulled Bobrovsky because they've been working the Boucher/Bobs tandem all year long and Bobrovsky looked awful in game 2. Our game didn't change. Philly's game didn't change. All that changed was the man in net, who happened to make the saves he needed to. Buffalo went 10-8-10 in SOG through three periods. Bobs let in 3 on 7 shots in 12:30. Boucher let in 1 on 20. Putting in Enroth doesn't guarantee the Sabres play any better or win. Enroth could just as easily get torn apart and cost us a game. Shoot, Enroth gave up 3 on 19 in his game against Philly before he got pulled in favor of Miller who stopped the last 8 shots Philly had. If anything, that shows the Sabres play better D in front of Miller than Jhonas. When it all comes down to it, I don't see any evidence that playing Enroth will cause this team to play any better defensively than they have shown in front of Miller. I'm not saying I would have a problem with Enroth starting tomorrow, I just fail to see how it influences something that the rest of the team should want to do well regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 You didn't really complete this statement. I'm confused, but I feel like you mean to blame the majority of the goals on the D. Earlier in this thread (I believe), d4rksabre made the comment that Enroth was making saves that "he had no business making". My thought I guess is that our $6.3m goalie should be making saves he has no business making. So if we're paying him this much, he should make a few saves in spite of our defense. He should be stealing games. He's not. I don't know what I would do in Lindy's situation with the goalies, but I wont jump down anyone's throat for suggesting a switch. I love Miller, but think he has played consistently wayyyy too average to justify what we pay him. I will clarify for you. Show me a weak miller should have had it goal out of the 8 non empty net goals scored. I want the video of the goal and your reasoning behind why miller is mostly at fault. Thats what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 So does the goalie. I wont put it all on Miller, but he needs to shoulder some of it. Comes with the check. The D has to work with the goalie. Think of it as 3 separate 3 man units. Myers-Butler-Miller Monty-Leopold-Miller Weber-MAG-Miller If I was to score each goal on each unit. I would blame Butler (cough up) Monty (got hung) and Weber (stick should be in and shot should come from the outside). Miller had the best chance of stopping the one off Weber....but even that would have been a great save. I would give each unit a B. Now, are Meyers-Butler-Enroth Monty-Leopold-Enroth Weber-MAG-Enroth better units? No way IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 The fact is Miller is playing extremely well considering what our defense has been giving him. Having a vezina Trophy does not make you a brick wall, or anything close to it for that matter. Having a reliable, dependable, responsible, and consistent defense gets you pretty damn close. I understand that many on here expect miller to make the saves that can steal games, but if you're depending soley on his ability to do so, then we clearly need to switch up the roster, because that's no way to win a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 The D has to work with the goalie. Think of it as 3 separate 3 man units. Myers-Butler-Miller Monty-Leopold-Miller Weber-MAG-Miller If I was to score each goal on each unit. I would blame Butler (cough up) Monty (got hung) and Weber (stick should be in and shot should come from the outside). Miller had the best chance of stopping the one off Weber....but even that would have been a great save. I would give each unit a B. Now, are Meyers-Butler-Enroth Monty-Leopold-Enroth Weber-MAG-Enroth better units? No way IMO. This is an excellent way of thinking about it. The only difference between bad defense and a breakaway is that when your defense is bad, it's just a breakaway with spectators. I dare anyone to tell me they expect Miller or Enroth to stop every breakaway they face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 This is an excellent way of thinking about it. The only difference between bad defense and a breakaway is that when your defense is bad, it's just a breakaway with spectators. I dare anyone to tell me they expect Miller or Enroth to stop every breakaway they face. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 $6.2 million to keep them in the game? That's like paying a QB in the NFL about $10 mil just to "manage the game." Is Miller the David Gerard of the NHL? If you want to talk forwards then start a thread about the forwards. I'm ready discuss Vanek not being the type of player to just take over games. He's a talent goal scorer but at this time in his carer I'm ready to say he is an accent piece not a center piece to a teams offense. Very bad analogy. Miller had to be incredible on at least three of those stops that kept him in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 I heard Paul Hamilton others say the Sabres got glowing reviews for drafting Enroth from NHL scouts and front office people. Not to mention the kid just had a knack for winning games this season. His two regulation time loses were his 1st start that lasted 20 minutes and 1-0 loss to the Pens. Hamilton said scouts said that they missed on Enroth. No glowing reviews just an admission that he was a prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Very bad analogy. Miller had to be incredible on at least three of those stops that kept him in the game He didn't make enough "incredible" saves to win them the game. That's what he gets paid for. I'm sure Gerard has had games where he made three "incredible" throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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