Q: How often has a 7th/8th seed reached the Cup final?

[PromoTheRobot]

Just curious if anyone knows?

 

PTR

[Eleven]

I took a guess. I know of a couple of instances.

 

EDIT: You might want to change the question, though. The league didn't use 1-8 seeding back in 1991.

[PASabreFan]

I don't like when your vote is revealed to the rest of the board. Almost seems like when a poster chooses that option, they're trying to play a game of "gotcha."

 

So I'm not going to vote.

 

How hard would it be to look that up?

[PASabreFan]

I took a guess. I know of a couple of instances.

 

EDIT: You might want to change the question, though. The league didn't use 1-8 seeding back in 1991.

 

Right. Conference format started in 94.

[Eleven]

I don't like when your vote is revealed to the rest of the board. Almost seems like when a poster chooses that option, they're trying to play a game of "gotcha."

 

So I'm not going to vote.

 

How hard would it be to look that up?

 

I have now looked it up; it wasn't that hard. I'm not going to play the role of spoiler, though!

[ROC Sabres]

I have now looked it up; it wasn't that hard. I'm not going to play the role of spoiler, though!

Didn't look it up and just going from the top of my head but I believe it was 3 teams.

[PromoTheRobot]

I took a guess. I know of a couple of instances.

 

EDIT: You might want to change the question, though. The league didn't use 1-8 seeding back in 1991.

Well the North Stars were finished 7th in the Campbell conference that year. So what seed would they be?

 

PTR

[Eleven]

Well the North Stars were finished 7th in the Campbell conference that year. So what seed would they be?

 

PTR

 

4th, because they finished 4th in their division and that's how teams were seeded.

[PromoTheRobot]

4th, because they finished 4th in their division and that's how teams were seeded.

So are you saying only 4 teams per conference went to the playoffs in 91? So whether they were officially 4th or 7th seed, they finished with the 7th best record in the conference.

 

PTR

[Eleven]

So are you saying only 4 teams per conference went to the playoffs in 91? So whether they were officially 4th or 7th seed, they finished with the 7th best record in the conference.

 

PTR

 

Obviously I'm not saying only 4 teams per conference went to the playoffs. I think you know that.

 

4 teams per division went. I get where you're headed with this, but Minnesota was not a 7th seed. There was no such thing. If there had been, Minnesota's path to the finals would have been different and the outcome may have been different, too.

[PASabreFan]

PTR's just trying to blow more sunshine up our ass.

[Eleven]

PTR's just trying to blow more sunshine up our ass.

 

I don't know about that, and I wouldn't mind anyway. I'm optimistic that this team can take a seven-game series from Philly, Washington, and/or Tampa. And one of those 7th-seeded teams that reached the Cup final should be very familiar to all of us.

 

In any event, since the new system was implemented in 1994, there have been 17 finals, meaning 34 spots, and it's happened X times out of 34. Not horrible odds--actually. If we add in Minnesota, like PTR's comments here and on the News website (don't think I'm not watching you, Robot) indicate, it becomes X+1 out of 40.

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't know about that, and I wouldn't mind anyway. I'm optimistic that this team can take a seven-game series from Philly, Washington, and/or Tampa. And one of those 7th-seeded teams that reached the Cup final should be very familiar to all of us.

 

In any event, since the new system was implemented in 1994, there have been 17 finals, meaning 34 spots, and it's happened X times out of 34. Not horrible odds--actually. If we add in Minnesota, like PTR's comments here and on the News website (don't think I'm not watching you, Robot) indicate, it becomes X+1 out of 40.

There were actually 19 cup finals since 1991 because of the lost season of 2005. And the answer is: 6 times if you count MIN in 1991.

 

In fact here are the breakdowns:

#1 seeds made it 8 times

#2 11 times

#3 3x

#4 6x

#5 3x

#6 1x

#7 5x (incl MIN 1991)

#8 1x

 

My point being that 7-8 seeds made it to the finals 6 of 19 times, or 32%. Not terrible odds. Now WINNING the cup is another matter. No seed lower than 5 ever won since 1991.

 

#1 6x

#2 7x

#3 1x

#4 3x

#5 2x

#6 0x

#7 0x

#8 0x

 

So if PA and DeLuca need something negative to glom on to, there you go.

 

PTR

[deluca67]

There were actually 19 cup finals since 1991 because of the lost season of 2005. And the answer is: 6 times if you count MIN in 1991.

 

In fact here are the breakdowns:

#1 seeds made it 8 times

#2 11 times

#3 3x

#4 6x

#5 3x

#6 1x

#7 5x (incl MIN 1991)

#8 1x

 

My point being that 7-8 seeds made it to the finals 6 of 19 times, or 32%. Not terrible odds. Now WINNING the cup is another matter. No seed lower than 5 ever won since 1991.

 

#1 6x

#2 7x

#3 1x

#4 3x

#5 2x

#6 0x

#7 0x

#8 0x

 

So if PA and DeLuca need something negative to glom on to, there you go.

 

PTR

Why is focusing on the Sabres status as legit Stanley Cup contenders considered "gloom?" That is the goal is it not. Terry Pegula said it himself. Is Pegula considered doom and gloom?

 

Here is something to think about. If the Sabres get bounced in the first round then the 2010-11 season was just the 2009-10 season re-edited by Quentin Tarantino.

[PASabreFan]

There were actually 19 cup finals since 1991 because of the lost season of 2005. And the answer is: 6 times if you count MIN in 1991.

 

In fact here are the breakdowns:

#1 seeds made it 8 times

#2 11 times

#3 3x

#4 6x

#5 3x

#6 1x

#7 5x (incl MIN 1991)

#8 1x

 

My point being that 7-8 seeds made it to the finals 6 of 19 times, or 32%. Not terrible odds. Now WINNING the cup is another matter. No seed lower than 5 ever won since 1991.

 

#1 6x

#2 7x

#3 1x

#4 3x

#5 2x

#6 0x

#7 0x

#8 0x

 

So if PA and DeLuca need something negative to glom on to, there you go.

 

PTR

Good research. I appreciate it. It takes a little more time than you'd think.

 

I have NJ in 95 as the only five seed to win a Cup, and of course that was the short season, 48 games.

 

It's not negative to point out that since 1990, NHL teams just don't squeak into the playoffs and win a Cup. And you pretty much have to be well above the 100 point mark.

 

Winning the Cup is not "another matter," it is THE matter now.

 

Having said all that, sports is very dynamic. Times change. Everything old could be new again. Pittsburgh won the Cup with 88 and 87 points, after Edmonton won with 90.

 

In the end, don't you have to look at your lineup? I don't see Messier or Lemieux on the 2010-11 Sabres. (Almost said Gretzky!) Hey, check this site out... salaries by team by season: http://www.dropyourgloves.com/Stat/Players.aspx?League=1&Season=1990&Team=18

[Assquatch]

Why is focusing on the Sabres status as legit Stanley Cup contenders considered "gloom?" That is the goal is it not. Terry Pegula said it himself. Is Pegula considered doom and gloom?

 

Here is something to think about. If the Sabres get bounced in the first round then the 2010-11 season was just the 2009-10 season re-edited by Quentin Tarantino.

 

With the exception that midway through re-editing, it was purchased by a major studio with larger budget and more emphasis on putting out a quality product for future sequels and less on turning a profit.

[deluca67]

With the exception that midway through re-editing, it was purchased by a major studio with larger budget and more emphasis on putting out a quality product for future sequels and less on turning a profit.

"Larger budget?"

[PromoTheRobot]

Good research. I appreciate it. It takes a little more time than you'd think.

 

I have NJ in 95 as the only five seed to win a Cup, and of course that was the short season, 48 games.

 

It's not negative to point out that since 1990, NHL teams just don't squeak into the playoffs and win a Cup. And you pretty much have to be well above the 100 point mark.

 

Winning the Cup is not "another matter," it is THE matter now.

 

Having said all that, sports is very dynamic. Times change. Everything old could be new again. Pittsburgh won the Cup with 88 and 87 points, after Edmonton won with 90.

 

In the end, don't you have to look at your lineup? I don't see Messier or Lemieux on the 2010-11 Sabres. (Almost said Gretzky!) Hey, check this site out... salaries by team by season: http://www.dropyourgloves.com/Stat/Players.aspx?League=1&Season=1990&Team=18

 

In 1993 both LA and MTL were 5 seeds and the Habs won. I didn't do this to argue that the Sabres were cup contenders. Just that a long playoff run is not impossible and that low seeds can go deep. Hockey playoffs, maybe more than other sports, favor the teams that get hot at the right time. Who cares where the Sabres seed as long as they get hot.

 

PTR

[tom webster]

In 1993 both LA and MTL were 5 seeds and the Habs won. I didn't do this to argue that the Sabres were cup contenders. Just that a long playoff run is not impossible and that low seeds can go deep. Hockey playoffs, maybe more than other sports, favor the teams that get hot at the right time. Who cares where the Sabres seed as long as they get hot.

 

PTR

 

One of the great fllacies is that getting hot at the right time means heading into the playoffs. History is full of instances were teams limped into the playoffs and got hot in the playoffs and went on a long run. Philly and Montreal both limped into the playoffs last year before going on their runs.

[X. Benedict]

One of the great fllacies is that getting hot at the right time means heading into the playoffs. History is full of instances were teams limped into the playoffs and got hot in the playoffs and went on a long run. Philly and Montreal both limped into the playoffs last year before going on their runs.

I'm much more likely to look at how teams match up.

 

If the season ended today:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/playoffmatchups

 

Ironically I think I like the #4 Pens over #5 Tampa better than anything else on the board.

 

I can't see any other series being particularly easy.

 

50 wins for Vancouver and they might start out with a hot Chicago.

 

It's an entirely new season.

[tom webster]

I'm much more likely to look at how teams match up.

 

If the season ended today:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/playoffmatchups

 

Ironically I think I like the #4 Pens over #5 Tampa better than anything else on the board.

 

I can't see any other series being particularly easy.

 

50 wins for Vancouver and they might start out with a hot Chicago.

 

It's an entirely new season.

 

 

That is such a good point. There are just so many variables that can lead to a long Cup run.

[Weave]

In 1993 both LA and MTL were 5 seeds and the Habs won. I didn't do this to argue that the Sabres were cup contenders. Just that a long playoff run is not impossible and that low seeds can go deep. Hockey playoffs, maybe more than other sports, favor the teams that get hot at the right time. Who cares where the Sabres seed as long as they get hot.PTR

 

Given that we've already seen that no team seeded lower than 5 has won a cup in 20 years, I care a whole lot where Buffalo finishes. Seeding is a damned good indicator of how good a team really is. I am more than happy to watch them in the playoffs as an 8 seed. But I am much, much happier watching them in the playoffs as a 5+ seed expecting that they have a legit shot at the whole shebang.

 

Cinderella stories are nice but I don't want a fairy tale. A true contender is what I want.

[X. Benedict]

Given that we've already seen that no team seeded lower than 5 has won a cup in 20 years, I care a whole lot where Buffalo finishes. Seeding is a damned good indicator of how good a team really is. I am more than happy to watch them in the playoffs as an 8 seed. But I am much, much happier watching them in the playoffs as a 5+ seed expecting that they have a legit shot at the whole shebang.

 

Cinderella stories are nice but I don't want a fairy tale. A true contender is what I want.

 

Once the puck is dropped for the postseason. The regular season becomes nothing more than prologue. Any team has a legitimate shot at beating anyone else this postseason.

 

Every team in the East is slightly flawed in my opinion.

 

Philly/Washington - Goalie Questions

Boston - has had trouble sustaining a forecheck

Montreal - crippled Defense/ not physical at all

Rangers - scoring droughts - penalty prone

Pens - Crosby?/malkin - Can Staal carry them?

Tampa - Inconsistent Blue-line/Roloston?

Buffalo - thin at center.

[Weave]

Once the puck is dropped for the postseason. The regular season becomes nothing more than prologue. Any team has a legitimate shot at beating anyone else this postseason.

 

 

Agreed. But the reality is, lower seeds have a much tougher path than higher seeds. Unless the top seeds get upset early, the lower seeds have the more difficult journey. And the seeding of Stanley Cup winners shows that. 8 seed gets you in and gives you the chance. No doubt. But even when the teams above them are flawed, it is still a long odds battle, for as flawed as the top seeds are, the fact that you are in 8th seed says that you are even more flawed.

 

Optimism is nice, but it flies in the face of history.

[Derrico]

Agreed. But the reality is, lower seeds have a much tougher path than higher seeds. Unless the top seeds get upset early, the lower seeds have the more difficult journey. And the seeding of Stanley Cup winners shows that. 8 seed gets you in and gives you the chance. No doubt. But even when the teams above them are flawed, it is still a long odds battle, for as flawed as the top seeds are, the fact that you are in 8th seed says that you are even more flawed.

 

Optimism is nice, but it flies in the face of history.

 

I agree, I'd much rather be in the top four in the conference. But come on, I and several other ppl wrote them off at Christmas. What a second half they've had and still have a decent look at the 6th spot. Having said that, it almost feels like if there were a time to be a lower seed come playoff time, it's this year. Who honestly scares you to the point where you feel like the Sabres have VERY little chance to win the series? In past years with Malkin and Crosby healthy the Penguins would fit this bill. The East just feels like every series will be tight and it's almost anyones to win. We will clearly be the underdog in every series but wouldn't be shocked any round we win.