tom webster Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [/b] That is a more damning evaluation of this defense than anything I have ever posted. If the Sabres couldn't beat the package the Bruins ended up sending to Florida than that is pretty frigging sad. If Tallinder had the same contract and age as Wideman, he would have more value. You will be surprised at the contract he is going to get. Lydman weould have similiar value if they were looking for a defensive defenseman. They already have young defenseman of Butler and Sekera ilk. Don't try so hard to move along your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I agree on the defense, but let's not forget that Boston's first rounder is twice as valuable as ours. And I don't know very much about junior hockey and prospects, but Florida has the #3 as well -- so I wouldn't be surprised if they send #3 and #15 to Edmonton or Toronto for Hall/Seguin Boston has Toronto's pick. Ane neither Edmonton or Boston is trading out of the top 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 If Tallinder had the same contract and age as Wideman, he would have more value. You will be surprised at the contract he is going to get. Lydman weould have similiar value if they were looking for a defensive defenseman. They already have young defenseman of Butler and Sekera ilk. Don't try so hard to move along your agenda. So you are saying that Regier isn't GM enough to package a Butler or Sekera with some picks or forwards and get a trade done? That a team that allegedly has all this defensive depth can't parlay it into a trade? How is it that a team that is only one or two pieces away from being a Cup contender as you believe has nothing a rebuilding team like the Panthers would want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 neither Edmonton or Boston is trading out of the top 2. correct. So you are saying that Regier isn't GM enough to package a Butler or Sekera with some picks or forwards and get a trade done? That a team that allegedly has all this defensive depth can't parlay it into a trade? How is it that a team that is only one or two pieces away from being a Cup contender as you believe has nothing a rebuilding team like the Panthers would want? If Florida wanted a top-3 defenseman, Butler or Sekera, at this point in their careers, isn't going to get the job done. Horton had good numbers and wasn't going to be traded without getting back a ready-to-contribute NHL player. In terms of packaging Butler or Sekera with a forward, it probably would've needed to be Roy (I don't think DR would trade Vanek for Horton, and Florida probably wasn't interested in TC or Pommer due to their contracts). It's quite likely Tallon preferred Wideman to Roy, or that DR didn't want to trade Roy for Horton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 sucks to be wideman right now. going from a team that was a hair's width away from the ecf to one that hasn't sniffed the playoffs in a decade, who also just traded away one of their best players. poor dennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 uh... cool story, bro? Whatever you say junior. God forbid someone tries to help you out and point you in the direction of posts that have already been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 So you are saying that Regier isn't GM enough to package a Butler or Sekera with some picks or forwards and get a trade done? That a team that allegedly has all this defensive depth can't parlay it into a trade? How is it that a team that is only one or two pieces away from being a Cup contender as you believe has nothing a rebuilding team like the Panthers would want? A) Horton isn't one of the two or three pieces I think they need. I want a high skill, high spped guy to play with Vanek.(Hemsky, Whitney) B) If Florida wants something BUffalo don't have, its not an indictment of Buffalo's roster especially if Buffalo isn't interested in Horton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 A) Horton isn't one of the two or three pieces I think they need. I want a high skill, high spped guy to play with Vanek.(Hemsky, Whitney) B) If Florida wants something BUffalo don't have, its not an indictment of Buffalo's roster especially if Buffalo isn't interested in Horton. I tend to agree with almost all of this tom. Hemsky would be an interesting pick up. Whitney I'm not sold on only becuase of his age. We would end up right back in this position 2 or 3 seasons from now. Buffalo didn't have the D man with experience Florida wanted, especially given who Boston sent back in return, but I would have to believe it wasn't so much that D man, but more of the draft picks that Tallon was after. Just an opinion though. Afterall, 15th overall is higher than the Sabres 1st rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billfold100 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I tend to agree with almost all of this tom. Hemsky would be an interesting pick up. Whitney I'm not sold on only becuase of his age. We would end up right back in this position 2 or 3 seasons from now. Buffalo didn't have the D man with experience Florida wanted, especially given who Boston sent back in return, but I would have to believe it wasn't so much that D man, but more of the draft picks that Tallon was after. Just an opinion though. Afterall, 15th overall is higher than the Sabres 1st rounder. Agree the deal centered around the first round pick. Boston probably made FLA take Wideman as a throw in b/c of his salary ($3.25m). FLA already has an offensive D-man in McCabe...not sure they need Wideman. McCabe on the block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Agree the deal centered around the first round pick. Boston probably made FLA take Wideman as a throw in b/c of his salary ($3.25m). FLA already has an offensive D-man in McCabe...not sure they need Wideman. McCabe on the block? Very possible Billfold. This is one of the more entertaining off season/pre draft day periods I've seen in some time. My fingers are still crossed, and I am still some what optimistic (albiet, I am very leery) that Darcy can get something done pre draft day as well as on draft day. What I find truly interesting is Buffalo has not resigned Tallinder or Lydman, or any of there UFA's/RFA's as of yet. Interesting indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Very possible Billfold. This is one of the more entertaining off season/pre draft day periods I've seen in some time. My fingers are still crossed, and I am still some what optimistic (albiet, I am very leery) that Darcy can get something done pre draft day as well as on draft day. What I find truly interesting is Buffalo has not resigned Tallinder or Lydman, or any of there UFA's/RFA's as of yet. Interesting indeed. I think Tallinder will get some decent offers as he has some offensive skill but I think Lydman is going to find out that 3rd or 4th defensive defenseman just don't get much love thrown their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billfold100 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I think Tallinder will get some decent offers as he has some offensive skill but I think Lydman is going to find out that 3rd or 4th defensive defenseman just don't get much love thrown their way. I'd be happy to see Lydman come back and I think he has more interest in staying than Tallinder. At a fair price, he is a solid 3 or 4 d-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 FLA already has an offensive D-man in McCabe...not sure they need Wideman. McCabe on the block? I've read that McCabe is on the block, but I think this is more of a wish list item for Tallon. McCabe has one year left on his deal and is due to make $5.75MM, which is ridiculous. Pretty unlikely that another team will take that on unless Florida takes back a crappy contract in return. What I find truly interesting is Buffalo has not resigned Tallinder or Lydman, or any of there UFA's/RFA's as of yet. Interesting indeed. They re-signed Grier, who was their most important UFA. DR will deal with the RFAs after the UFA frenzy dies down. As for Tallinder and Lydman, I think DR has no interest in either of them at anything close to their current salaries. I agree with this approach -- one hard lesson the Sabres have learned is that you can't keep paying average players $3MM per year, because it doesn't leave you any room to get star players who are worth $6MM or more. I think Tallinder will get some decent offers as he has some offensive skill but I think Lydman is going to find out that 3rd or 4th defensive defenseman just don't get much love thrown their way. I agree on Tallinder. I can also see Lydman coming back to the Sabres for a Montador-type deal after not doing better elsewhere in FA, but I can also see someone giving Lydman a 3 years x $2.5MM deal, which is far more than the Sabres will be interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I've read that McCabe is on the block, but I think this is more of a wish list item for Tallon. McCabe has one year left on his deal and is due to make $5.75MM, which is ridiculous. Pretty unlikely that another team will take that on unless Florida takes back a crappy contract in return. They re-signed Grier, who was their most important UFA. DR will deal with the RFAs after the UFA frenzy dies down. As for Tallinder and Lydman, I think DR has no interest in either of them at anything close to their current salaries. I agree with this approach -- one hard lesson the Sabres have learned is that you can't keep paying average players $3MM per year, because it doesn't leave you any room to get star players who are worth $6MM or more. I agree on Tallinder. I can also see Lydman coming back to the Sabres for a Montador-type deal after not doing better elsewhere in FA, but I can also see someone giving Lydman a 3 years x $2.5MM deal, which is far more than the Sabres will be interested in. I really enjoy reading your posts they are thought provoking and insightful. Thanks for being a valued member of this board! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I've read that McCabe is on the block, but I think this is more of a wish list item for Tallon. McCabe has one year left on his deal and is due to make $5.75MM, which is ridiculous. Pretty unlikely that another team will take that on unless Florida takes back a crappy contract in return. They re-signed Grier, who was their most important UFA. DR will deal with the RFAs after the UFA frenzy dies down. As for Tallinder and Lydman, I think DR has no interest in either of them at anything close to their current salaries. I agree with this approach -- one hard lesson the Sabres have learned is that you can't keep paying average players $3MM per year, because it doesn't leave you any room to get star players who are worth $6MM or more. I agree on Tallinder. I can also see Lydman coming back to the Sabres for a Montador-type deal after not doing better elsewhere in FA, but I can also see someone giving Lydman a 3 years x $2.5MM deal, which is far more than the Sabres will be interested in. Agreed, my optimism would be renewed if Brad Richards were bantered about. I don't think Spezza would come to Buffalo, even if these 2 organizations did get along. I am not sure on Lydman, but your thoughts on Tallinder would be correct. As for Buffalo's D, I still feel Darcy is going with Gragnani/Weber. As for Buffalo's O, specifically the 2 scoring lines, his options are getting smaller. Does this mean Darcy drops a blockbuster on us draft day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billfold100 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Agreed, my optimism would be renewed if Brad Richards were bantered about. I don't think Spezza would come to Buffalo, even if these 2 organizations did get along. I am not sure on Lydman, but your thoughts on Tallinder would be correct. As for Buffalo's D, I still feel Darcy is going with Gragnani/Weber. As for Buffalo's O, specifically the 2 scoring lines, his options are getting smaller. Does this mean Darcy drops a blockbuster on us draft day? I think Lydman comes back on a 3 yr deal b/c after next year we (currently) won't have anyone with 5+ years experience on our D. Montador and Rivet walk but we'll need some vet presence. Of course, Kaberle or Volchenkov could solve that. I agree with an earlier post that has us getting rid of someone on draft day as an addition by subtraction. We don't have a pick in the top half of the 1st and no 2nd round pick so we aren't going to be the best option for other teams to trade with. My guess is the big move (if there is such a thing) will come by July 4th with hopefully two UFA's added to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I think Lydman comes back on a 3 yr deal b/c after next year we (currently) won't have anyone with 5+ years experience on our D. Montador and Rivet walk but we'll need some vet presence. Of course, Kaberle or Volchenkov could solve that. I agree with an earlier post that has us getting rid of someone on draft day as an addition by subtraction. We don't have a pick in the top half of the 1st and no 2nd round pick so we aren't going to be the best option for other teams to trade with. My guess is the big move (if there is such a thing) will come by July 4th with hopefully two UFA's added to that. I must disagree on both Lydman and the projected UFA signings. I can't see the Sabres giving him more than 2 years. As for UFAs, DR has stated many times his preference for adding players via trade as opposed to the UFA route -- he's referred to it as "the most expensive aisle in the supermarket." I think he's fine adding cheaper depth vets as UFAs, but not the kind of scoring impact forward the Sabres need, since that is a $6MM+ UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billfold100 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I must disagree on both Lydman and the projected UFA signings. I can't see the Sabres giving him more than 2 years. As for UFAs, DR has stated many times his preference for adding players via trade as opposed to the UFA route -- he's referred to it as "the most expensive aisle in the supermarket." I think he's fine adding cheaper depth vets as UFAs, but not the kind of scoring impact forward the Sabres need, since that is a $6MM+ UFA. I should have been more clear. I didn't mean to suggest he was shopping in the $6m aisle. The Cullen/Lombardi or Montador/Grier aisle if you will. If there is a big move it will be via trade but I don't think it will be until after the draft and the first few days of FA. As for Lydman, he's only 31 and he's durable. Giving him the third year likely brings his annual salary down to a more realistic level b/c he'll get the extra year of security. He has stated that the thought of him picking up his family and moving is not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I really enjoy reading your posts they are thought provoking and insightful. Thanks for being a valued member of this board! :thumbsup: Thanks for the kind words. As the hot stove league heats up, I find myself spending more and more time here. Holy mackerel I hope DR pulls the trigger on something substantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Very possible Billfold. This is one of the more entertaining off season/pre draft day periods I've seen in some time. My fingers are still crossed, and I am still some what optimistic (albiet, I am very leery) that Darcy can get something done pre draft day as well as on draft day. What I find truly interesting is Buffalo has not resigned Tallinder or Lydman, or any of there UFA's/RFA's as of yet. Interesting indeed. And now that you say this, watch absolutely nothing of value happen league-wide leading up to the draft. It wouldn't surprise me at all. It seems to happen a lot where the hype is never met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 If Tallinder had the same contract and age as Wideman, he would have more value. You will be surprised at the contract he is going to get. Lydman weould have similiar value if they were looking for a defensive defenseman. They already have young defenseman of Butler and Sekera ilk. Don't try so hard to move along your agenda. I'm not sure regarding his "agenda" but the point he made is fine as Tallinder and Lydman are now gone. Obviously left out of the trade conversation is Myers, who is untouchable. But remaining is an aging Rivet and Montador and three young players (Sekera, Butler, and Weber) who have all seemingly regressed in recent seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I think the Sabres definitely have trade material to work with - if they so choose. Gerbe is one guy I'd like to trade. He obviously has talent but equally obvious is his size. I remember when Marcel Dionne used to skate between opponent's legs but the NHL has changed since then. Gerbe will be hammered to the point of being constantly injured. He already has experienced that in his short time here. Good trade bait IMO. Package him with any combination of Sekera, Stafford, Connolly, Lydman, Tallinder, Pomminstein and I think we can both move up in this rich draft and obtain a good player (or "gamer" as Bucky likes to call it). If I were Darcy I'd be hitting the phones 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Package him with any combination of ... Lydman, Tallinder Not sure that their rights (since they're both UFAs on July 1) really have that much value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I'm sure you're right, I'm just dumping all the stuff we can get rid of into one bag...throw Torres in there too...he's worth a bag of pucks at least (used ones, not new). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I remember when Marcel Dionne used to skate between opponent's legs but the NHL has changed since then. Not that I remember. :blink: :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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