Buffalo Sabres AHL affiliate team in Niagara Falls

[static70]

If a civic center were built in Niagara Falls, would you support the Sabres affiliate team being located there?

 

Thoughts on this.

[PASabreFan]

I wonder if the Sabres would support it. Can you imagine an AHL team of hard-working, hungry, entertaining players outdrawing the assclowns at HSBC Arena?

[FogBat]

I wonder if the Sabres would support it. Can you imagine an AHL team of hard-working, hungry, entertaining players outdrawing the assclowns at HSBC Arena?

I suppose you could try to get the Amerks back, given that Steve Donner is supposedly no longer in the picture.

[SabresRepublic]

I wonder if the Sabres would support it. Can you imagine an AHL team of hard-working, hungry, entertaining players outdrawing the assclowns at HSBC Arena?

 

Sabres attendance is right up there but from the perspective of the Niagara Frontier of which Buffalo is a major part it could only serve to develop more aptitude and skill hockey programs south of the border as a major world class hockey frontier! Made in uSA!!!

[Eleven]

If a civic center were built in Niagara Falls, would you support the Sabres affiliate team being located there?

 

Thoughts on this.

 

Which side of the border? I don't think Niagara Falls, NY could support an AHL team. Not sure about Niagara Falls, Ont.

 

Personally, I probably wouldn't go to games--maybe one, just to say I went. 21 Sabres games a year is enough live hockey for my schedule.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

If a civic center were built in Niagara Falls, would you support the Sabres affiliate team being located there?

 

Thoughts on this.

 

It's a great idea that could help the city turn the corner. First of all it could be used as an excuse to knock down 15 blocks worth of already decrepit housing. It would actually get people that live in Niagara and Erie counties to go the Falls to spend money someplace other than the casino. It is also a venue to book larger musical acts than a club, but smaller than the HSBC arena.

[LabattBlue]

I'm guessing here, but I would think you would need average attendance of 4000+ to break even. I know they have an OHL team in St. Catherines and an AHL team in Hamilton, so I don't know how much that would effect folks in NF, Canada from crossing the bridge to see an AHL game on this side of the border.

 

I'd be good for a few games a year.

[shrader]

Sabres attendance is right up there but from the perspective of the Niagara Frontier of which Buffalo is a major part it could only serve to develop more aptitude and skill hockey programs south of the border as a major world class hockey frontier! Made in uSA!!!

 

Do you really think this area needs to grow as a hockey market?

 

!!!

[static70]

It's a great idea that could help the city turn the corner. First of all it could be used as an excuse to knock down 15 blocks worth of already decrepit housing. It would actually get people that live in Niagara and Erie counties to go the Falls to spend money someplace other than the casino. It is also a venue to book larger musical acts than a club, but smaller than the HSBC arena.

BINGO!

This is an individual with vision. And I'll let you in a little something. It wouldn't just be a 6,000 seat arena, it would be larger than that. It would also have a convention center. A very large complex, all renewable energy encompassed building. My firms early cost estimates put it at a 110 million dollar build out.

 

Why do this you ask? Because 4 very large development firms are interested in coming in and putting up 4 very large 5 star hotels in a certain section of the downtown area. These would be theme hotels and all renewable energy buildings as well. And a 5th firm would like to come in and build an all solar glass Atrium in downtown with a Hotel, once again, all renewable energy.

[shrader]

I'm guessing here, but I would think you would need average attendance of 4000+ to break even. I know they have an OHL team in St. Catherines and an AHL team in Hamilton, so I don't know how much that would effect folks in NF, Canada from crossing the bridge to see an AHL game on this side of the border.

 

I'd be good for a few games a year.

 

I think a better question is are there any rules in place that give any of these teams you mentioned a say in whether or not a team moves into their general area. Obviously the Sabres and maybe even the Leafs would have some general influence on the situation.

[LabattBlue]

BINGO!

This is an individual with vision. And I'll let you in a little something. It wouldn't just be a 6,000 seat arena, it would be larger than that. It would also have a convention center. A very large complex, all renewable energy encompassed building. My firms early cost estimates put it at a 110 million dollar build out.

 

Why do this you ask? Because 4 very large development firms are interested in coming in and putting up 4 very large 5 star hotels in a certain section of the downtown area. These would be theme hotels and all renewable energy buildings as well. And a 5th firm would like to come in and build an all solar glass Atrium in downtown with a Hotel, once again, all renewable energy.

Living in Buffalo for 50+ years causes pessimism to be the norm when talk of development comes along. Therefore, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

PS I'd be happy to see 1 five star hotel, let alone 4 of them plus an arena/convention center.

[static70]

Living in Buffalo for 50+ years causes pessimism to be the norm when talk of development comes along. Therefore, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

PS I'd be happy to see 1 five star hotel, let alone 4 of them plus an arena/convention center.

Another BINGO! Working in the political realm here is really a crash course. Its a "Who's an ***hole 101" course. But, it is farther along than I've seen other projects.

[LabattBlue]

Another BINGO! Working in the political realm here is really a crash course. Its a "Who's an ***hole 101" course. But, it is farther along than I've seen other projects.

WNY is fertile ground for architects, engineering firms and anyone else that would be retained for building design.....

 

everything but actually building them! :rolleyes:

[PromoTheRobot]

BINGO!

This is an individual with vision. And I'll let you in a little something. It wouldn't just be a 6,000 seat arena, it would be larger than that. It would also have a convention center. A very large complex, all renewable energy encompassed building. My firms early cost estimates put it at a 110 million dollar build out.

 

Why do this you ask? Because 4 very large development firms are interested in coming in and putting up 4 very large 5 star hotels in a certain section of the downtown area. These would be theme hotels and all renewable energy buildings as well. And a 5th firm would like to come in and build an all solar glass Atrium in downtown with a Hotel, once again, all renewable energy.

If the Pirates/Amerks game drew 3,000 fans then I doubt an AHL team in the Falls would work. I certainly wouldn't build a 6,000 seat arena. But I do think you have the right idea. You're just aiming too low...

 

What Niagara Falls needs is not a small arena but a 75,000-seat dome stadium + hotel and entertainment complex! Imagine a shiny new dome built right next to the Rainbow Bridge. Attached to it would be a 5-star high rise hotel with Falls views, and a "Patriot Place"-style entertainment mall with restaurants and night clubs. This would of course be the new home of the Buffalo Bills, 30 minutes closer to Toronto than the current stadium. Plus Canadian fans would be able to park on the Ontario side and walk across the Rainbow Bridge right to the stadium.

 

And that's not all! This stadium will be built with a very deep field that would allow another level of fold-out seating that would surround a basketball court OR a NHL ice rink! Imagine a Sabres/Leafs game played in front of 90,000 fans! Imagine the NCAA Basketball Final Four or Frozen Four? Imagine even a Super Bowl played there!

 

Why not? While most of the world considers Buffalo a dump, Niagara Falls is a world famous tourist destination. Sure the US side is a dump too, but a project like this would clean up a lot of the blight. As for hosting major events, both sides have plenty of hotels and entertainment options. And the NFL does help encourage new stadium projects by dangling a Super Bowl as a carrot. If they can hold a Super Bowl in Detroit twice, Minneapolis and Indy, then why not the Falls?

 

This is bold forward thinking...which means it's doomed from the start.

 

PTR

[shrader]

Imagine a Sabres/Leafs game played in front of 90,000 fans! Imagine the NCAA Basketball Final Four or Frozen Four? Imagine even a Super Bowl played there!

 

The NCAA will never do that again after that guaranteed disaster that will be Ford Field this year. Their ticket sales have been awful and they've already changed the rink configuration to account for it. I'm pumped though because I am going to get one ###### of a deal on tickets from the scalpers giving them away for free.

[static70]

If the Pirates/Amerks game drew 3,000 fans then I doubt an AHL team in the Falls would work. I certainly wouldn't build a 6,000 seat arena. But I do think you have the right idea. You're just aiming too low...

 

What Niagara Falls needs is not a small arena but a 75,000-seat dome stadium + hotel and entertainment complex! Imagine a shiny new dome built right next to the Rainbow Bridge. Attached to it would be a 5-star high rise hotel with Falls views, and a "Patriot Place"-style entertainment mall with restaurants and night clubs. This would of course be the new home of the Buffalo Bills, 30 minutes closer to Toronto than the current stadium. Plus Canadian fans would be able to park on the Ontario side and walk across the Rainbow Bridge right to the stadium.

 

And that's not all! This stadium will be built with a very deep field that would allow another level of fold-out seating that would surround a basketball court OR a NHL ice rink! Imagine a Sabres/Leafs game played in front of 90,000 fans! Imagine the NCAA Basketball Final Four or Frozen Four? Imagine even a Super Bowl played there!

 

Why not? While most of the world considers Buffalo a dump, Niagara Falls is a world famous tourist destination. Sure the US side is a dump too, but a project like this would clean up a lot of the blight. As for hosting major events, both sides have plenty of hotels and entertainment options. And the NFL does help encourage new stadium projects by dangling a Super Bowl as a carrot. If they can hold a Super Bowl in Detroit twice, Minneapolis and Indy, then why not the Falls?

 

This is bold forward thinking...which means it's doomed from the start.

 

PTR

Ummm....ya, well, a state of the art dome stadium with 5 star hotel is nice and all, but ummm.....ya, my firm doesn't have the estimated 2.5 billion dollars to build such a facility.

 

We have to start somewhere. A 6,000 seat arena and convention center all in one facility is a good start for the downtown area with four 5 star hotels. This is already a very expensive project. I think you don't realize the actual infrastructure upgrades and additions that go with projects such as these, particularly traffic studies and environmental impact studies.

Not to mention much of the property in and around Niagara Falls has yet to be cleaned up, only capped, you don't even want to start looking at those cleanup figures.

[shrader]

And the medical fees for treating all the mutations that are a result of that clean up?

[Eleven]

If the Pirates/Amerks game drew 3,000 fans then I doubt an AHL team in the Falls would work. I certainly wouldn't build a 6,000 seat arena. But I do think you have the right idea. You're just aiming too low...

 

What Niagara Falls needs is not a small arena but a 75,000-seat dome stadium + hotel and entertainment complex! Imagine a shiny new dome built right next to the Rainbow Bridge. Attached to it would be a 5-star high rise hotel with Falls views, and a "Patriot Place"-style entertainment mall with restaurants and night clubs. This would of course be the new home of the Buffalo Bills, 30 minutes closer to Toronto than the current stadium. Plus Canadian fans would be able to park on the Ontario side and walk across the Rainbow Bridge right to the stadium.

 

And that's not all! This stadium will be built with a very deep field that would allow another level of fold-out seating that would surround a basketball court OR a NHL ice rink! Imagine a Sabres/Leafs game played in front of 90,000 fans! Imagine the NCAA Basketball Final Four or Frozen Four? Imagine even a Super Bowl played there!

 

Why not? While most of the world considers Buffalo a dump, Niagara Falls is a world famous tourist destination. Sure the US side is a dump too, but a project like this would clean up a lot of the blight. As for hosting major events, both sides have plenty of hotels and entertainment options. And the NFL does help encourage new stadium projects by dangling a Super Bowl as a carrot. If they can hold a Super Bowl in Detroit twice, Minneapolis and Indy, then why not the Falls?

 

This is bold forward thinking...which means it's doomed from the start.

 

PTR

I have no problem with this, and as I have stated on TSW, I have no problem with Erie Co. sharing the bill, and I would hope that some other nearby counties would at least chip in.

 

But the major event stuff--final four, Super Bowl, etc., is a pipe dream. We don't have the infrastructure, hotels, or even enough restaurants, to handle that. Nor will we.

[Hawk]

I actually started this topic in December.

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/16241-ahl-in-buffalo/page__p__177000__fromsearch__1#entry177000

[PromoTheRobot]

Ummm....ya, well, a state of the art dome stadium with 5 star hotel is nice and all, but ummm.....ya, my firm doesn't have the estimated 2.5 billion dollars to build such a facility.

 

We have to start somewhere. A 6,000 seat arena and convention center all in one facility is a good start for the downtown area with four 5 star hotels. This is already a very expensive project. I think you don't realize the actual infrastructure upgrades and additions that go with projects such as these, particularly traffic studies and environmental impact studies.

Not to mention much of the property in and around Niagara Falls has yet to be cleaned up, only capped, you don't even want to start looking at those cleanup figures.

Money? Feh! Just grab some stimulus dough.

 

All kidding aside, I'm sure you have a better handle on such things than I. My fear with a small scale project is it will not have enough impact to make a difference. I don't believe there is enough of a market for AHL hockey. Heck, I see teams like Lowell and Worcester drawing only a few hundred fans.

 

I just think a major league venue like a dome would enhance Niagara Falls and create a magnet for major events. Putting the Bills there would be huge. The Falls are a destination known world-wide. As bad as things have become they can still turn around. I think by creating major venues and filling them with major events and enhancing the surrounding amenities you can make the Falls an "IN" destination again.

 

Are you sure we're talking $2.5B? It doesn't have to to be a retractable dome. I think you could do it for half that. I'd bet you could get some stimulus money for part of it, maybe not the stadium but for infrastructure. Couldn't you float this idea to your people and see what they say?

 

PTR

 

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

I have no problem with this, and as I have stated on TSW, I have no problem with Erie Co. sharing the bill, and I would hope that some other nearby counties would at least chip in.

 

But the major event stuff--final four, Super Bowl, etc., is a pipe dream. We don't have the infrastructure, hotels, or even enough restaurants, to handle that. Nor will we.

No the infrastructure isn't there now, but Static70's plan included some new hotels and stuff. I don't think a Final Four or Super Bowl is as outlandish as you think. I mean, c'mon...what does Indianapolis or Detroit have that NF doesn't?

 

PTR

[static70]

Money? Feh! Just grab some stimulus dough.

 

All kidding aside, I'm sure you have a better handle on such things than I. My fear with a small scale project is it will not have enough impact to make a difference. I don't believe there is enough of a market for AHL hockey. Heck, I see teams like Lowell and Worcester drawing only a few hundred fans.

 

I just think a major league venue like a dome would enhance Niagara Falls and create a magnet for major events. Putting the Bills there would be huge. The Falls are a destination known world-wide. As bad as things have become they can still turn around. I think by creating major venues and filling them with major events and enhancing the surrounding amenities you can make the Falls an "IN" destination again.

 

Are you sure we're talking $2.5B? It doesn't have to to be a retractable dome. I think you could do it for half that. I'd bet you could get some stimulus money for part of it, maybe not the stadium but for infrastructure. Couldn't you float this idea to your people and see what they say?

 

PTR

 

PTR

Actually, 2.5 billion was a sarcastic example, I would have to create a spread sheet and run the actual numbers for a facility of this size, but just off the top of my head in all honesty, your looking at a 1.4 billion dollar private project.

Federal stimulus money would only be utilized for immediate infrastructure upgrades. Roads, drainage, etc...etc....

 

The real issue here is that its just not viable for Niagara Falls. This is a tourist destination, you really want a dome stadium in downtown Buffalo.

This area is unique, it offers a large tourist attraction but with Buffalo's existing infrastucture already in place, you really want to direct commerce to that area. They should regionalize in an effort to work to together to rebuild the area, there in lay the real problem, to much me, me, me and not enough us, us, us.

[static70]

No the infrastructure isn't there now, but Static70's plan included some new hotels and stuff. I don't think a Final Four or Super Bowl is as outlandish as you think. I mean, c'mon...what does Indianapolis or Detroit have that NF doesn't?

 

PTR

Well, I have offered the city of Niagara Falls a 6,000 seat arena with a convention center. Along with that would come four 5 star hotels close to the water front in downtown and a 5th hotel with an attached 4 story atrium for a theme, rainforest, aquarium, whatever the theme would be.

These would be individually owned of course and subsequently you would get the natural flow of commercial projects, i.e. eating, shopping, etc....etc.....

Before the economic down turn N.F. would get roughly 5 million people annually visiting. Now the numbers look like 3.5 to 4 million, but these are global visitors which is fantastic to promote the region.

 

Oh, and by the way, all projects I just mentioned would be renewable energy buildings with various technologies.

[BuffalOhio]

Sabres attendance is right up there but from the perspective of the Niagara Frontier of which Buffalo is a major part it could only serve to develop more aptitude and skill hockey programs south of the border as a major world class hockey frontier! Made in uSA!!!

 

..!.. to your aptitude and skill. Jeezus, give it a break, you clown!

[wacollin]

Well, I have offered the city of Niagara Falls a 6,000 seat arena with a convention center. Along with that would come four 5 star hotels close to the water front in downtown and a 5th hotel with an attached 4 story atrium for a theme, rainforest, aquarium, whatever the theme would be.

These would be individually owned of course and subsequently you would get the natural flow of commercial projects, i.e. eating, shopping, etc....etc.....

Before the economic down turn N.F. would get roughly 5 million people annually visiting. Now the numbers look like 3.5 to 4 million, but these are global visitors which is fantastic to promote the region.

 

Oh, and by the way, all projects I just mentioned would be renewable energy buildings with various technologies.

 

 

A bit confused, you have "offered"? You are going to buy, build, and/or arrange financing?