Shootouts = Losing Lots of Points

[ntjacks79]

It's hard to be critical of the Sabres play lately, and I don't intend to be. The opposition has generally played pretty well on this trip and I think the Sabres may have been fortunate to get single points in some of these games. However, the Sabres performance in the shootout, looking at it for an entire season, seems to be pretty poor. Miller seems to "not be Miller" in the shootouts. Skaters seem to overthink things and often go down "weakly". Any thoughts on this? I'm getting to the point where I watch a shootout and am expecting a loss.

[Figster]

It's hard to be critical of the Sabres play lately, and I don't intend to be. The opposition has generally played pretty well on this trip and I think the Sabres may have been fortunate to get single points in some of these games. However, the Sabres performance in the shootout, looking at it for an entire season, seems to be pretty poor. Miller seems to "not be Miller" in the shootouts. Skaters seem to overthink things and often go down "weakly". Any thoughts on this? I'm getting to the point where I watch a shootout and am expecting a loss.

 

As much as I love the shootouts, its not one of the Sabres strong points. Maybe if Lindy puts more of an emphasis in practice on the shootouts it would be beneficial for the shooters and the Goalie's.

 

Lalime might be the better shootout Goalie with his poke check, something Miller needs to do more of in my opinion.

[carpandean]

Any thoughts on this?

No shootouts in the playoffs. :thumbsup:

[LabattBlue]

Miller and Lalime both have a save % around .600 in the shootouts. I always felt that if the goalie can stop 2 out of every 3(.667 save percentage), you should be in a good position to win or at least extend the shootout. If the goalies are performing at that level and you are still loosing shootouts, the focus shifts to the shooters.

[ko12010]

Yeah it's frustrating. Whenever we get into a shootout, I'm like, "Well, there goes a point." Miller hasn't looked great the last few times but he's not the problem. Our shooters are awful at it. We don't have any bonafide snipers or our guys have no confidence in their moves.

 

When we had Briere and Kotalik, we were almost a lock to win a shootout, or at least compete, with Miller in net as well.

 

Now I hope we can just compete in a shootout.

 

I love Timmy C but man did he piss me off in the shootout last night. He had Quick beaten and just gives a weak ass attempt at a back hand to lift it over Quick's right pad. I like Pommer with his shot and Stafford has stopped F*cking around as well, but Timmy looks like he could give two Sh*ts and Roy does as well. Miller can only do so much. He's maybe trying to be too perfect b/c he knows we won't score more than one in the shootout whereas with Briere and Kotalik in the rotation we would nab two most likely.

[LabattBlue]

When we had Briere and Kotalik, we were almost a lock to win a shootout, or at least compete, with Miller in net as well.

In 06-07 Miller and the Sabres were lights out in the shootouts, but in 05-06, Miller and Biron were a combined 5-5.

[shrader]

Shootout wins have to be one of the most misleading stats out there. What does it really prove? Come playoff time, there is no difference between a shootout win and a shoot out loss. What we should be happy about is the fact that the Sabres are getting points out of almost every game lately. With the luxury of a 9 point lead on first place, losing a random point here or there is not a big deal. The only thing I get out of all these shootouts is the fact that this team can keep games close. That's something that is going to help down the stretch.

 

 

edit: Ko, that puck rolled on Connolly. It's pure luck at that point whether or not he's able to lift that puck over Quick.

[carpandean]

edit: Ko, that puck rolled on Connolly. It's pure luck at that point whether or not he's able to lift that puck over Quick.

Yeah, and Miller got his glove on Kopitar's shot, but just not enough to clear the crossbar (I laughed when LA's announcer said he roofed it. No, it was going about midway up, hit the top of Miller's glove and redirect up to the "roof".) Not to mention that Brown actually missed the shot. Unfortunately, it came off the post, hit miller in the back and went in.

[spndnchz]

Yeah, and Miller got his glove on Kopitar's shot, but just not enough to clear the crossbar (I laughed when LA's announcer said he roofed it. No, it was going about midway up, hit the top of Miller's glove and redirect up to the "roof".) Not to mention that Brown actually missed the shot. Unfortunately, it came off the post, hit miller in the back and went in.

 

Not sure about Brown's shot, looked one way one angle and ur way the other.

[mde4144]

I think their is weakness on both sides. The shooters have had multiple chances to close recent games and have missed but Miller is letting in about half the chances lately. They really do miss Kotalik's money backhand move. It's definitely to the point where it's win in OT or lose in SO. You'd think they'd give some other guys a chance more too. Connoly's numbers are not good in the SO.

[jwcolour]

Considering how bad they were out hustled and out played, they/we should probably thank their lucky stars they got a point at all. It sucks that they have a rough time winning and stealing points in the shootout but it really isn't too much of an important part of hockey. The power play bothers me much more. I also don't think Miller is really built for the shootout, he's kind of a "play the angles" goalie who's game is pretty much all about the correct positioning. In a shootout when there's no back pressure on the shooter it kind of takes his forte away and he's pretty much turned into an average goalie (not that he's been bad). At least that's how I feel.

 

Oh yeah and it doesn't help that he's getting no support on the other side of the ice.

[carpandean]

Not sure about Brown's shot, looked one way one angle and ur way the other.

Hmmm, it appears you are correct. That second angle at the end does look like it glanced off the post and went in directly. Still, anytime you hit the post, it's a little bit of puck luck as to whether it goes in or stays out.

[Buffalo Wings]

Considering how bad they were out hustled and out played, they/we should probably thank their lucky stars they got a point at all. It sucks that they have a rough time winning and stealing points in the shootout but it really isn't too much of an important part of hockey. The power play bothers me much more. I also don't think Miller is really built for the shootout, he's kind of a "play the angles" goalie who's game is pretty much all about the correct positioning. In a shootout when there's no back pressure on the shooter it kind of takes his forte away and he's pretty much turned into an average goalie (not that he's been bad). At least that's how I feel.

 

Oh yeah and it doesn't help that he's getting no support on the other side of the ice.

The way Miller plays, having someone back-check the forward almost makes it a piece of cake for him. He doesn't always stop the shooter, but he's more reliable in that spot than any other goalie I can think of.

 

I would think that shootouts are all about positioning. Miller does come pretty far out of the net to challenge the shooter, but he's been getting beaten on the dekes more often this year. Someone else has said it, but he needs to rewrite his own book - start poke-checking a little bit more or maybe not come out as far, but change his pattern a bit just to make the shooters think twice.

[Sabre Dance]

I despise the shootout - it makes for lazy hockey. If you need the two points, play like hell in the third period and get one goal more than your opponent. If the OT ends in a tie, take your single point and play harder the next game. Hockey is the only sport that engages in such a goofy way to settle a tie. The NBA doesn't play one overtime period and then resort to a foul-shot contest. MLB doesn't play one extra inning and go to a home run contest. The NFL plays one OT period and then calls it a tie. In fact, I don't even like OT in the regular season - that five minutes is usually boring since the teams figure they can win it in the shootout. Go back to old time hockey - Eddie Shore, Turk Broda, Gump Worsley......

[shrader]

I despise the shootout - it makes for lazy hockey. If you need the two points, play like hell in the third period and get one goal more than your opponent. If the OT ends in a tie, take your single point and play harder the next game. Hockey is the only sport that engages in such a goofy way to settle a tie. The NBA doesn't play one overtime period and then resort to a foul-shot contest. MLB doesn't play one extra inning and go to a home run contest. The NFL plays one OT period and then calls it a tie. In fact, I don't even like OT in the regular season - that five minutes is usually boring since the teams figure they can win it in the shootout. Go back to old time hockey - Eddie Shore, Turk Broda, Gump Worsley......

 

I'm not sure what you're watching. OT's are generally pretty entertaining right now and it has nothing to do with the shootouts. Since they've locked up a point, they tend to push it a bit more than they would have 10 years ago. The late stages of the 3rd period in a tied game? Now that's a different story.

[Mbossy]

Looking at the numbers, it amounts to at the most six points for the best team, about the same negative wise for the worst team in the shootout. Compared to the old do or die overtime a bigger difference. I'd rather see shootouts and teams bunched up come year end than teams way on top or way on the bottom because they didn't get a point her, point there.

[ko12010]

Shootout wins have to be one of the most misleading stats out there. What does it really prove? Come playoff time, there is no difference between a shootout win and a shoot out loss. What we should be happy about is the fact that the Sabres are getting points out of almost every game lately. With the luxury of a 9 point lead on first place, losing a random point here or there is not a big deal. The only thing I get out of all these shootouts is the fact that this team can keep games close. That's something that is going to help down the stretch.

 

 

edit: Ko, that puck rolled on Connolly. It's pure luck at that point whether or not he's able to lift that puck over Quick.

 

 

 

Ya I saw that. I guess it's just my frustration with Connolly. I feel with his skills he should deke any goalie out of their jock strap every time like he kind of used to pre-concussion. I'll always remember his dirty backhand move short handed on Emery when we beat Ottawa 4-1 in the semi's.

[jwcolour]

The way Miller plays, having someone back-check the forward almost makes it a piece of cake for him. He doesn't always stop the shooter, but he's more reliable in that spot than any other goalie I can think of.

 

I would think that shootouts are all about positioning. Miller does come pretty far out of the net to challenge the shooter, but he's been getting beaten on the dekes more often this year. Someone else has said it, but he needs to rewrite his own book - start poke-checking a little bit more or maybe not come out as far, but change his pattern a bit just to make the shooters think twice.

 

Well overall goaltending is 99% positioning and Miller does it better than anyone, but I just feel in shootout situations you need a reactive-ness that i'm not sure he has, in any case, in real hockey you don't need it much if you are position perfect... I agree though sometimes a little poke check aggressiveness can nullify a lot of the dekes. He's not doing anything wrong, you obviously play the shot before the deke.. but a little unpredictability can make a shooter think twice.

 

Also, i'm all hammered right now so forgive if I sound like an a#$^$#!e or type like a shithead.

[PASabreFan]

Well overall goaltending is 99% positioning and Miller does it better than anyone, but I just feel in shootout situations you need a reactive-ness that i'm not sure he has, in any case, in real hockey you don't need it much if you are position perfect... I agree though sometimes a little poke check aggressiveness can nullify a lot of the dekes. He's not doing anything wrong, you obviously play the shot before the deke.. but a little unpredictability can make a shooter think twice.

 

Also, i'm all hammered right now so forgive if I sound like an a#$^$#!e or type like a shithead.

 

Good thing there are no breakaways in real hockey! :thumbsup:

[Eleven]

Well overall goaltending is 99% positioning and Miller does it better than anyone, but I just feel in shootout situations you need a reactive-ness that i'm not sure he has, in any case, in real hockey you don't need it much if you are position perfect... I agree though sometimes a little poke check aggressiveness can nullify a lot of the dekes. He's not doing anything wrong, you obviously play the shot before the deke.. but a little unpredictability can make a shooter think twice.

 

Also, i'm all hammered right now so forgive if I sound like an a#$^$#!e or type like a shithead.

 

At 5pm! Nice! It's always good to have a little day-drinking session now and then.