Offensive Offense

[Eric in Akron]

Let me first start by saying that during the first period of the Leafs game, I said to my daughter that the Sabres look like the bad news bears on offense. They had no cohesion and definitely no aggressiveness. Even during the remaining two periods of the game, I felt the offense was (at best) a little crisper. Outside of Roy's and Ellis' goals in the second, the remainder were not from skill but from the oppositions lack thereof.

 

I can remember about 2 weeks ago, that Connolly stated how they were allowed to "try" things on offense and can be creative. I don't mind talent being creative but it has to be done at the expectation of your teammates... meaning they have to have the same mind set to expect the pass. Or they have to anticipate that your shot is aiming for a rebound to the front of the goaltender and not a shot/pass (near the other opposite goal post). Does anyone else think that besides the team having a more defensive mindset, that the lack of offense is due to nobody playing on the same page?

 

I mean how many times this year have the Sabres been on a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 break away only to have it broken up, not by the defender, but by the poor choices made by the Sabres. They are not a threat offensively, they are just a hard team to score on.

 

We need to be hard to score on and a threat offensively if we are going to have a chance to win in the playoffs (if we make it).

[Derrico]

We need to be hard to score on and a threat offensively if we are going to have a chance to win in the playoffs (if we make it).

 

Ask the 1999 Buffalo Sabres. Come on, the team is playing near lights out defense. Ya, it'd be great if we could combine this years defense with the 06/07 Sabres offense, but that's almost impossible to do. Ruff has the team playing exactly how I want and how I think you truely win in the playoffs. I know it's been awhile since we've made it but how many 5-3, 6-4 games do you see come April? It always seems to be 2-1 3-2 type games at best. We've got great goaltending, great D, and first place in the division, please just enjoy what we've got because I think it will take us far this year...

[Eric in Akron]

Ask the 1999 Buffalo Sabres. Come on, the team is playing near lights out defense. Ya, it'd be great if we could combine this years defense with the 06/07 Sabres offense, but that's almost impossible to do. Ruff has the team playing exactly how I want and how I think you truely win in the playoffs. I know it's been awhile since we've made it but how many 5-3, 6-4 games do you see come April? It always seems to be 2-1 3-2 type games at best. We've got great goaltending, great D, and first place in the division, please just enjoy what we've got because I think it will take us far this year...

 

I would agree, however, teams that are scoring the 2 goals in April are the teams that have good offenses or hot offenses.

 

I think my frustration is due to the fact that with The Skill, Roy, Stafford, and Vanek we are not getting what they were scouted to do. The fact that we score on our 3 on 1s about 1 out of 8 tries (this is a pure guess and not on factual numbers.) is frustrating.

 

Even the '99 crew were getting hot on offense (when they needed to) and I believe the PP for that team was more effective.

 

EDIT: Also the 1999 team had a much harder work ethic.

[JujuFish]

Even the '99 crew were getting hot on offense (when they needed to) and I believe the PP for that team was more effective.

The '99 crew scored 5+ goals only 5 times that entire season. This year's team has surpassed that with their 6th such game tonight.

[Derrico]

I would agree, however, teams that are scoring the 2 goals in April are the teams that have good offenses or hot offenses.

 

I think my frustration is due to the fact that with The Skill, Roy, Stafford, and Vanek we are not getting what they were scouted to do. The fact that we score on our 3 on 1s about 1 out of 8 tries (this is a pure guess and not on factual numbers.) is frustrating.

 

Even the '99 crew were getting hot on offense (when they needed to) and I believe the PP for that team was more effective.

 

EDIT: Also the 1999 team had a much harder work ethic.

 

Sorry, I must disagree. First off, the 99 team did not have a 'harder work ethic' as this years team. I agree that guys like Vanek, Roy etc. are playing a different way than they may have been scouted but that just shows how hard this team is actually working. Ruff decided that three years ago he had a high flying, top scoring team and couldn't win and now he needed a change. How many years did NJ go deep in the playoofs on account of their defense? It may be frustrating to see the offense struggle at times but as we've lived through, its MUCH more frustrating to see a team score a few goals and let up several in the same game because of soft defense/goaltending. Were finally winning these one goal games that we never use to and it's nice. I say keep up the D and give up the slightly less offensive chances.

[Kristian]

Sorry, I must disagree. First off, the 99 team did not have a 'harder work ethic' as this years team. I agree that guys like Vanek, Roy etc. are playing a different way than they may have been scouted but that just shows how hard this team is actually working. Ruff decided that three years ago he had a high flying, top scoring team and couldn't win and now he needed a change. How many years did NJ go deep in the playoofs on account of their defense? It may be frustrating to see the offense struggle at times but as we've lived through, its MUCH more frustrating to see a team score a few goals and let up several in the same game because of soft defense/goaltending. Were finally winning these one goal games that we never use to and it's nice. I say keep up the D and give up the slightly less offensive chances.

 

It also keeps the new contracts down :thumbsup:

[Calvin]

I mean how many times this year have the Sabres been on a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 break away only to have it broken up, not by the defender, but by the poor choices made by the Sabres. They are not a threat offensively, they are just a hard team to score on.

I have noticed that! We've been quite abysmal on odd-man rushes, wasting a good couple every game.. and you're right, not on great saves or anything, a lot of these rushes crash and burn on poor choices and the like, almost like they haven't practised these enough. What's even worse is that on a badly done odd-man rush almost 90% of the time we end up conceding an odd-man rush going the other way, and most other teams do a better job finishing those off - only that Miller has been lights out on the side-to-side movement keeping us alive

[PASabreFan]

I would agree, however, teams that are scoring the 2 goals in April are the teams that have good offenses or hot offenses.

 

I think my frustration is due to the fact that with The Skill, Roy, Stafford, and Vanek we are not getting what they were scouted to do. The fact that we score on our 3 on 1s about 1 out of 8 tries (this is a pure guess and not on factual numbers.) is frustrating.

 

Even the '99 crew were getting hot on offense (when they needed to) and I believe the PP for that team was more effective.

 

EDIT: Also the 1999 team had a much harder work ethic.

Correct. As we've discussed here in excruciating statistical detail, that team scored well over two goals a game leading up to the finals. I'd say three goals a game, but then someone's noise would get out of joint. Hasek played well, but it wasn't a case of Dom standing on his head and winning 1-0 or 2-1. In the finals, the goals dried up and even the Dominator couldn't save the day. And that should be a warning to this year's team.

[nfreeman]

EDIT: Also the 1999 team had a much harder work ethic.

Other than a couple of clunkers, I think this team's work ethic has been very good. I'm confident the '99 team laid a few eggs as well.

[nobody]

I was going to ask: Which year did the team lead the league in PP %? Then I went to nhl.com where you can check back to 97-98.

 

99-00 team ranked last with 10.5% in regular season - ouch.

 

98-99 team ranked 21st in regular season at 13.5% but had a 20% in the playoffs.

 

And my answer to my question was: they finished 3rd in 05-06.

 

 

And what team did I see near the top in nearly most of those years? Detroit, of course.

[PASabreFan]

I was going to ask: Which year did the team lead the league in PP %? Then I went to nhl.com where you can check back to 97-98.

 

99-00 team ranked last with 10.5% in regular season - ouch.

 

98-99 team ranked 21st in regular season at 13.5% but had a 20% in the playoffs.

 

And my answer to my question was: they finished 3rd in 05-06.

 

 

And what team did I see near the top in nearly most of those years? Detroit, of course.

 

So the answer would be 91-92. :)

[nobody]

So the answer would be 91-92. :)

 

I was right about remembering them leading the league? So I wasn't crazy? (At least about that. ;) )

[Eric in Akron]

I was going to ask: Which year did the team lead the league in PP %? Then I went to nhl.com where you can check back to 97-98.

 

99-00 team ranked last with 10.5% in regular season - ouch.

 

98-99 team ranked 21st in regular season at 13.5% but had a 20% in the playoffs.

 

And my answer to my question was: they finished 3rd in 05-06.

 

 

And what team did I see near the top in nearly most of those years? Detroit, of course.

 

Wow... I wouldn't have thought it to be that low.

 

My only issue then is why do I have no confidence in this team versus that team. Maybe I'm closer to it now, after all, back then I didn't get to see games (except playoffs) since Center Ice wasn't available.

 

Maybe watching this top 6 crew for the last two years have been torture and it will take a Stanley Cup win to convince me these guys can get it done. :pirate:

 

I've been sour on this teams offense but didn't want to bury them after an atrocious loss (ahem Ottawa) but wanted to wait for a win. Am I happy they are winning? Yes. Have I felt confident and encouraged? No way.

[Eric in Akron]

Other than a couple of clunkers, I think this team's work ethic has been very good. I'm confident the '99 team laid a few eggs as well.

 

I would say that games that the Sabres have really been on their game and played inspired hockey were against the Caps (2nd game), Islanders (1st game), Calgary, and Canadians (12/3 game). There have been many games we won because of Miller and not with the Sabres "buzzing" or working hard. There really have been a lot of lackluster play by this group and it frustrates me because when they do decide to play hard, they look really, really good.

[SwampD]

Offense starts in your own zone. I'm so tired of seeing a Sabre, once they get the puck, curl back towards Miller. Once in a while is fine, when there is no other option, but no other team does this as much as the Sabres. When every play is forced to go 200 feet through all five guys of the opposing team, how good do we really expect them to be? I said it before in another thread, we've got the best goalie in the world right now, we should be taking more chances offensively.

[SabresFan526]

Wow... I wouldn't have thought it to be that low.

 

My only issue then is why do I have no confidence in this team versus that team. Maybe I'm closer to it now, after all, back then I didn't get to see games (except playoffs) since Center Ice wasn't available.

 

Maybe watching this top 6 crew for the last two years have been torture and it will take a Stanley Cup win to convince me these guys can get it done. :pirate:

 

I've been sour on this teams offense but didn't want to bury them after an atrocious loss (ahem Ottawa) but wanted to wait for a win. Am I happy they are winning? Yes. Have I felt confident and encouraged? No way.

For me, I think the special teams says it all. I am enjoying the season to date, and I'm loving watching Miller turn into the best goalie in the NHL. However, the lack of offense is frustrating to me, as I'm sure it is to everyone. I think the big difference between this year's team and teams past really goes to Special Teams. In the stats that nobody posted, it's quite clear. If you remember the 1999 team, Stu Barnes did absolutely nothing after the trade for Barnaby until the playoffs. Then, he started heating up, especially in the Toronto series and the special teams and powerplay got really hot in the playoffs. If you remember the 2005-2006 team, the Special teams was the main reason for that team's success in my opinion. They were unbeatable on the PK, and not only that, that year's PK was one of the most dangerous PKs I had ever seen offensively. Just in the Ottawa series alone, I think Buffalo score 4 shorthanded goals, which are just absolute killers for the other team. Of course the PP was awesome in 2005-2006 ranking 3rd that year. I think the lack of firepower from special teams right now is why I'm lacking a little faith in the offensive numbers and frankly including tonight, the PP has done nothing to get me excited. I'd like to see a much better PP, and then I'll get more confident in this team. I don't know if it's Arniel or what, but that 2005-2006 team had some fantastic special teams ranking in the top 10 in both PP and PK.

 

But, the one thing I'm really enjoying about this team is the scoring is coming from everywhere. While the supposed horses are not scoring, I, personally, like seeing scoring come from all four lines and all 6 defenseman. It shows scoring depth and really makes it hard for other teams to focus on anyone line. Yeah, you'd like to see more scoring coming from the guys getting paid the big bucks, but hey, I don't care if goals are coming from Kaleta and Ellis or Vanek and Roy so long as this team keeps scoring and winning, I'm happy.

[PASabreFan]

For me, I think the special teams says it all. I am enjoying the season to date, and I'm loving watching Miller turn into the best goalie in the NHL. However, the lack of offense is frustrating to me, as I'm sure it is to everyone. I think the big difference between this year's team and teams past really goes to Special Teams. In the stats that nobody posted, it's quite clear. If you remember the 1999 team, Stu Barnes did absolutely nothing after the trade for Barnaby until the playoffs. Then, he started heating up, especially in the Toronto series and the special teams and powerplay got really hot in the playoffs. If you remember the 2005-2006 team, the Special teams was the main reason for that team's success in my opinion. They were unbeatable on the PK, and not only that, that year's PK was one of the most dangerous PKs I had ever seen offensively. Just in the Ottawa series alone, I think Buffalo score 4 shorthanded goals, which are just absolute killers for the other team. Of course the PP was awesome in 2005-2006 ranking 3rd that year. I think the lack of firepower from special teams right now is why I'm lacking a little faith in the offensive numbers and frankly including tonight, the PP has done nothing to get me excited. I'd like to see a much better PP, and then I'll get more confident in this team. I don't know if it's Arniel or what, but that 2005-2006 team had some fantastic special teams ranking in the top 10 in both PP and PK.

 

But, the one thing I'm really enjoying about this team is the scoring is coming from everywhere. While the supposed horses are not scoring, I, personally, like seeing scoring come from all four lines and all 6 defenseman. It shows scoring depth and really makes it hard for other teams to focus on anyone line. Yeah, you'd like to see more scoring coming from the guys getting paid the big bucks, but hey, I don't care if goals are coming from Kaleta and Ellis or Vanek and Roy so long as this team keeps scoring and winning, I'm happy.

Lindy keeps kind of kicking the power play woes down the road. Recently he said he was making some changes to get players moving around more and playing out of their normal spots. He said it would take some time to take hold. And in tonight's postgame presser, he said the lack of power play practice was hurting them. Ruff needs help coaching the power play. He has needed it for 12 years.

[SabresFan526]

Lindy keeps kind of kicking the power play woes down the road. Recently he said he was making some changes to get players moving around more and playing out of their normal spots. He said it would take some time to take hold. And in tonight's postgame presser, he said the lack of power play practice was hurting them. Ruff needs help coaching the power play. He has needed it for 12 years.

So how much of the success of 2005-2006 goes to Arniel? How much of the success was due to the talent on the team? Now given much of the same talent, except for Connolly missing most of the 2006-2007 season and Arniel going to coach the Manitoba Moose, why does the PP become mediocre in 2006-2007? I think the players currently on the team are pretty good and talented enough to be threats on the PP, so why can't they do anything? Do you think Arniel did not get enough credit for 2005-2006? Were they doing something different that year that was so successful that they are not doing today? I don't know, but I'm not convinced McCutcheon is the right coach for Special Teams and I haven't been thrilled with the Special Teams performance since he took over and Arniel left.

 

From what I can tell, it looks like teams are really clogging the middle of the ice on PK against Buffalo and they aren't able to get any shots on net. Everything seems to be getting blocked, and I think the lack of use of wrist shots by the point men is part of the problem. The slappers are too telegraphed. Second, it seems like the players are really indecisive and take too long to make decisions about whether to pass or shoot often forgoing one-timers for the sake of a fake and then a pass to someone else. This seems to be where the loss of Kotalik and Spacek are really hurting the Sabres on the PP this year because those two guys had no fear in just throwing a hard one timer on net and if it got blocked too bad for the guy who blocked it because he likely got hurt. They've also been having an extremely difficult time with basic stuff like getting into the zone and winning faceoffs. Getting Goose back helps with winning draws, but it doesn't solve the problem with gaining the zone and getting shots through to find rebounds or tip-ins. I don't know what it is, but the PP looks out of sorts this year and they need a PP QB and a point man with a really hard shot that's not afraid of taking a one timer and getting it on net. These guys are way too tentative right now and it shows.

[matter2003]

Ask the 1999 Buffalo Sabres. Come on, the team is playing near lights out defense. Ya, it'd be great if we could combine this years defense with the 06/07 Sabres offense, but that's almost impossible to do. Ruff has the team playing exactly how I want and how I think you truely win in the playoffs. I know it's been awhile since we've made it but how many 5-3, 6-4 games do you see come April? It always seems to be 2-1 3-2 type games at best. We've got great goaltending, great D, and first place in the division, please just enjoy what we've got because I think it will take us far this year...

 

This team is good enough to beat and compete with anyone right now. We have beaten most of the top teams in the league..Washington, Chicago, New Jersey, Phoenix, Calgary, Nashville... we played the defending cup champs Penguins tough and basically shut them down offensively only to lose in the shootout in a game we had the clear edge in scoring chances and play for the most part, playing with our backup goalie and missing one of our best players in Vanek.

 

This team can just flat out take away scoring chances from teams like we haven't seen in a long time, and combined with Miller's stellar play, can limit teams to 2 goals or less most nights. In fact, in 25 of the Sabres 34 games this year, they have allowed 2 goals or fewer. In almost 3 out of every 4 games, the Sabres only need to score 3 goals to win. That makes things pretty easy. Score 3 goals and you have a 75% chance of winning.

 

This team is one of the better teams in the NHL. Let's stop pretending like the bottom is going to fall out sometime and just start enjoying what seems like a potential division winning season....

[Eric in Akron]

This team is good enough to beat and compete with anyone right now. We have beaten most of the top teams in the league..Washington, Chicago, New Jersey, Phoenix, Calgary, Nashville... we played the defending cup champs Penguins tough and basically shut them down offensively only to lose in the shootout in a game we had the clear edge in scoring chances and play for the most part, playing with our backup goalie and missing one of our best players in Vanek.

 

This team can just flat out take away scoring chances from teams like we haven't seen in a long time, and combined with Miller's stellar play, can limit teams to 2 goals or less most nights. In fact, in 25 of the Sabres 34 games this year, they have allowed 2 goals or fewer. In almost 3 out of every 4 games, the Sabres only need to score 3 goals to win. That makes things pretty easy. Score 3 goals and you have a 75% chance of winning.

 

This team is one of the better teams in the NHL. Let's stop pretending like the bottom is going to fall out sometime and just start enjoying what seems like a potential division winning season....

 

First and foremost, I am enjoying the wins but I don't need to get my hopes up with a paper tiger. I want to be sure that DR makes a move for some major scorer (not like recent trades).

 

- I believe that Chicago outplayed us and in a 7 game series they would win based off of the performance.

- We haven't beaten New Jersey

- Phoenix is not a top team and neither is Calgary

- Washington handed our butts to us and we returned the favor.

- We played a good game tonight but I don't think we have the horses to beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

 

This team is good defensively, but I think they could be better offensively without sacrificing defense. If they had a player with good hands (who can make a nice touch pass) then some of these odd man rushes that we are getting would become goals. Do you realize how many opportunities this team has wasted and not because they were thinking defense?

[matter2003]

Correct. As we've discussed here in excruciating statistical detail, that team scored well over two goals a game leading up to the finals. I'd say three goals a game, but then someone's noise would get out of joint. Hasek played well, but it wasn't a case of Dom standing on his head and winning 1-0 or 2-1. In the finals, the goals dried up and even the Dominator couldn't save the day. And that should be a warning to this year's team.

 

Well, this team scores slightly more than the '98-'99 team did, and has just about the same GAA, which is not surprising considering Miller has stats that are virtually identical to Hasek's that year. (1.89 GAA for Miller, 1.87 GAA for Hasek and both had a .937 Save Percentage)...

 

IMHO, this team CLEARLY has more talented players than the '98-'99 team which was Hasek and everyone else. When Dixon Ward and Michael Grosek are tied for 3rd on the team in goals, you have a big problem...

 

We have a multiple 40+ goal scorer, a few 30+ goal scorers and a few 20+ goal scorers. That team basically had Miro Satan for offense and Michael Peca chipped in. If you had to pick the 10 best offensive players off those 2 teams you would likely choose 7 or 8 from this years team and 2 or 3 from '98-'99. Let's not kid ourselves, there is a huge talent difference between that team and this team everywhere except in goal.

[matter2003]

 

 

- I believe that Chicago outplayed us and in a 7 game series they would win based off of the performance.

- We haven't beaten New Jersey

- Phoenix is not a top team and neither is Calgary

- Washington handed our butts to us and we returned the favor.

- We played a good game tonight but I don't think we have the horses to beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

 

 

- Chicago had a lot of "look good" time in the 3rd period where they spent lots of time in the Buffalo zone but accomplished next to nothing other than cycling the puck endlessly behind the net until the Sabres got possession and sent it out to center ice. Watch what happens most time in the 3rd period when the Sabres go into lockdown mode. The other team looks like they are doing great, but actually watch and see how many real chances they get. Its very few.

 

- The Sabres slapped New Jersey around in New Jersey 4-1 early in the season. The game wasn't even close.

 

- Calgary leads their division with 44 points(1 fewer than the Sabres) and Phoenix also has 44 points(1 fewer than the Sabres). They both are very good teams this year.

 

- I don't dispute that at all, I merely stated that we beat them.

 

- I think Pittsburgh would be a very tough matchup for anyone in the playoffs, and it would likely be a pretty good series. That being said, Pittsburgh is the defending Stanley Cup champion and I think they would clearly have the edge. Miller would likely need to steal a few games for us to win that series.

 

 

 

I'd love to see DR add some scoring as well, but at what cost. If it means giving up someone like Chris Butler to rent a player who may or may not even help, I would have to say no. I think in a year or two we will have the scoring we need coming from Portland... this team is going to make the playoffs this year and has an excellent chance to win the division...

[static70]

Ask the 1999 Buffalo Sabres. Come on, the team is playing near lights out defense. Ya, it'd be great if we could combine this years defense with the 06/07 Sabres offense, but that's almost impossible to do. Ruff has the team playing exactly how I want and how I think you truely win in the playoffs. I know it's been awhile since we've made it but how many 5-3, 6-4 games do you see come April? It always seems to be 2-1 3-2 type games at best. We've got great goaltending, great D, and first place in the division, please just enjoy what we've got because I think it will take us far this year...

Sorry derek2299, this just does not hold water and I find it hard to believe that anyone, regardless of how dedicated a fan they think they are, really buy into this. The facts are clear for this team and they are not disputable, it isn't a matter of opinion mind you, it is what it is.

 

1. Very little to non-existent sustained offensive zone puck control which leads to very little offensive pressure of almost any kind.

 

2. Defensively the team is Good, not great, but good, facing the fact that Ryan Miller has back stopped us to atleast 7 to 10 victories should send up red flags all day long.

 

3. No go to guy, none, 0, zilch. There is not 1 player on offense that can be a clutch performer, this is definitely going to hurt us, whether its now, next month or especially into the playoffs only time will meet out this reality.

 

4. No chemistry amongst the supposed top 6 forwards. You cannot find 1 combo of any 2 players out of the top 6 that can actually contribute on a regular/consistent basis. The closest thing we have is Connolly and Roy but not as a duo but as individuals, this too is going to be a killer in the playoffs.

 

5. Many missed opportunities suggests a lack of skill or talent amongst the scorers on this team. If it were 10 games or so and they snap out of it then I would concede its just a bad run, but here it is almost half way through the season and we still see this lack of finishing for goals.

 

These are just a few points that cannot be disputed, they are there for everyone to see. This will be a very serious issue come the playoffs. People can say that it is acceptable as they rebuild, but in all reality I have been a fan for the entire 39 years. I have seen times like this with this team many times before. Trades need to be made, not only to cut away those players that are not thriving here, but more importantly, bring in the talent that will thrive here.

The reality is, as good as Ryan Miller is, he is no Hasek, he has not shown in the past he can carry this team to a Stanley Cup Finals Series and although he is having a career year, you still need to score goals to win games. I said this before the season even began, if they stayed with these same core players, you would not see much, if any improvement on scoring and creating offensive pressure on an NHL level consistent basis.

 

I am impressed that they have a winning record, but quite frankly, they do not have what it takes to win a Cup. Defense won cups in the "Between the Lockout era" but with the new rule changes and the chemistry between players on certain teams, no matter how good Buffalo's Defense is, or how good Ryan Miller is, they will be cut down in an early series in the playoffs.

 

It is goals that win games. Score more than your opponent and you win. Defense, although almost just as important is a secondary issue by virtue of the game itself, scoring goals, whether it be 1 or 5 to win a game is the necessary issue at hand here. Buffalo does not have this. They need to make a trade.

Kovalchuck would be my selection, regardless of what others may think, he brings needed skills, he brings money to the coffers of the organization and he brings hope. There are others, but he looks to be the most realistic.

There are no assurances trades will bring the needed personnel that can bring us a cup this season, but to sit idily by and do nothing, is just pure foolishness. Darcy knows this. A move is coming, how big? I don't know, but it had better address the scoring issue on this team, putting these current players infront of a cheerleading squad isn't going to help.