Mbossy Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Do you know how many goals per game on average that the Sabres offered as support for Dom in the first three rounds in '99? Wow, someone take that sentence out and shoot it! 2.8 what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 2.8 what's your point? It was more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I disagree. Maybe in the cap era teams are forced to rely on one or two players (possibly due to poor financial management) but most teams cannot and will not go deep in the playoffs with just 1 or 2 difference makers and a bunch of role players. Looking at the recent Cup winners I'd say that Detroit, Colorado, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Anaheim, all had pretty deep, talented teams to win the Cup, and they beat pretty good, deep teams as well. Fact is Hasek (AND Lindy) took a very average team to the SCF. That team had Dom, Miro, and Peca. Outside of those three, there was a lot of crap on that team. That was a very nice editorial omission of Carolina. Every team is deep when it's stars are producing in the playoffs. It's funny that we both would put Pittsburgh, Tampa and Anaheim on our lists. When?...when will if fall on Ruff? I've said it before, I know exactly what I'm going to see with a Lindy Ruff coached team, and whether we win or lose lately, I'm finding that I'm just bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I have to respond with this. Hasek and Miller? Can Lindy win without a goaltender stealing games for him? Every successful coach is backed by a strong goaltender. Even with that, Ruff has coached both defensive and offensive-minded teams to success in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 That was a very nice editorial omission of Carolina. Every team is deep when it's stars are producing in the playoffs. It's funny that we both would put Pittsburgh, Tampa and Anaheim on our lists. When?...when will if fall on Ruff? I've said it before, I know exactly what I'm going to see with a Lindy Ruff coached team, and whether we win or lose lately, I'm finding that I'm just bored. Come on. Teams are only deep when they produce? What kind of twisted logic is that? Look at the rosters fielded by Colorado, Detroit, Pittsburgh - they had talent throughout the roster. Most had three strong lines and 4-5 solid defensemen, and either an elite (Roy, Dom) goalie or a solid, unspectacular one (Osgood, Fleury). I wouldn't characterize the 99 Sabres as such. They had a HoF goalie and two forwards. And there was no editorial omission of Carolina. First, I didn't list every Cup winner for the last 15 years, only the ones that immediately came to mind as having more talent than "a bunch of role players and 1-2 difference makers". And second, yes, I think they did have a fairly deep team, but certainly more talent than the 99 Sabres. So we should fire Lindy because you're bored and you know what you're going to see from a Lindy Ruff team? OK. If Everyone knows that Lindy and DR are (or damn well should be) on the hotseat this year. IMO they have to make the playoffs and win at least one round to keep their jobs safe. Whether that happens or not is up to OSP, but both DR and LR should be nervous about their jobs, even if it is partly due to being saddled with a group of sausage-grabbing marys who think they are talented enough to not take opponents seriously or say things like "it's just a game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Come on. Teams are only deep when they produce? What kind of twisted logic is that? Look at the rosters fielded by Colorado, Detroit, Pittsburgh - they had talent throughout the roster. Most had three strong lines and 4-5 solid defensemen, and either an elite (Roy, Dom) goalie or a solid, unspectacular one (Osgood, Fleury). I wouldn't characterize the 99 Sabres as such. They had a HoF goalie and two forwards. And there was no editorial omission of Carolina. First, I didn't list every Cup winner for the last 15 years, only the ones that immediately came to mind as having more talent than "a bunch of role players and 1-2 difference makers". And second, yes, I think they did have a fairly deep team, but certainly more talent than the 99 Sabres. So we should fire Lindy because you're bored and you know what you're going to see from a Lindy Ruff team? OK. If Everyone knows that Lindy and DR are (or damn well should be) on the hotseat this year. IMO they have to make the playoffs and win at least one round to keep their jobs safe. Whether that happens or not is up to OSP, but both DR and LR should be nervous about their jobs, even if it is partly due to being saddled with a group of sausage-grabbing marys who think they are talented enough to not take opponents seriously or say things like "it's just a game". Who said "it's just a game"? Wasn't that someone's fantasy hearsay involving Rob Ray, a golf tournament and a fondue pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 2.8 what's your point? It was more than that. 59 goals in 21 games. 2.8 per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 2.8 what's your point? 2.88 for the first two rounds, but PA is using the third round to skew the numbers. Against Toronto they exploded for 23 goals in 5 games, blowing up their pre-SCF GF average to 3.36. Every successful coach is backed by a strong goaltender. Even with that, Ruff has coached both defensive and offensive-minded teams to success in the playoffs. Not according to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 It's funny to look at recent Cup winners and be totally unimpressed with 75% of the roster. But I'm not going to make a big point of it, because I don't watch much non-Sabres hockey, so I'm probably out of the loop as to who all of the talented NHL players are. But look at Anaheim's roster when they won the Cup. 2007 ANAHEIM DUCKS: Ilya Bryzgalov, Jean-Sebastien Giguere, Richard Jackman, Sean O'Donnell, Francois Beauchemin, Chris Pronger, Scott Niedermayer, Joe DiPenta, Aaron Rome, Kent Huskins, Shane Hnidy, Todd Bertuzzi, Teemu Selanne, Corey Perry, Chris Kunitz, Ryan Getzlaf, George Parros, Dustin Penner, Drew Miller, Andy McDonald, Todd Marchant, Brad May, Samuel Pahlsson, Travis Moen, Rob Niedermayer, Ryan Carter Anyway, that's ancient history. Today's line, according to Lindy and the company, is that there's parity in the league, very little separating the teams. One goal here, one goal there, and you can win it all. Lack of talent is no longer an excuse here. May the best coach win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Who said "it's just a game"? Wasn't that someone's fantasy hearsay involving Rob Ray, a golf tournament and a fondue pot? You had me up till fondue pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 It's funny to look at recent Cup winners and be totally unimpressed with 75% of the roster. But I'm not going to make a big point of it, because I don't watch much non-Sabres hockey, so I'm probably out of the loop as to who all of the talented NHL players are. But look at Anaheim's roster when they won the Cup. 2007 ANAHEIM DUCKS: Ilya Bryzgalov, Jean-Sebastien Giguere, Richard Jackman, Sean O'Donnell, Francois Beauchemin, Chris Pronger, Scott Niedermayer, Joe DiPenta, Aaron Rome, Kent Huskins, Shane Hnidy, Todd Bertuzzi, Teemu Selanne, Corey Perry, Chris Kunitz, Ryan Getzlaf, George Parros, Dustin Penner, Drew Miller, Andy McDonald, Todd Marchant, Brad May, Samuel Pahlsson, Travis Moen, Rob Niedermayer, Ryan Carter Anyway, that's ancient history. Today's line, according to Lindy and the company, is that there's parity in the league, very little separating the teams. One goal here, one goal there, and you can win it all. Lack of talent is no longer an excuse here. May the best coach win. That roster is a fantastic blend of skill, toughness, talent, role players, youth, veterans, solid goaltending...I'd love to see the Sabres have a similar roster. :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 That roster is a fantastic blend of skill, toughness, talent, role players, youth, veterans, solid goaltending...I'd love to see the Sabres have a similar roster. :wub: I'd love to see the Sabres have solid goaltending too. Methinks you are changing your tune a bit. No, seriously, ask spndnchz about the fondue pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'd love to see the Sabres have solid goaltending too. Methinks you are changing your tune a bit. No, seriously, ask spndnchz about the fondue pot. Where has she been lately anyway? Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing any Inkman posts in a few days either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 59 goals in 21 games. 2.8 per game. All funny business with the numbers (I'm not the only one here doing it) aside, I'll accept your figure of just under 3 goals per game in those playoffs. That was nothing to sneeze at during that defensive era. Miro Satan was not the leading goal scorer among the forwards -- remember, he missed a lot of games with injury. Nor was Mike Peca. It was Stu Barnes who scored seven goals. And two defensemen led the way in points IIRC. I'm certainly not going to argue that the team carried Dom to the finals. That would be ridiculous. But I'll always challenge the conventional wisdom that Dom stood on his head, winning games 1-0 and 2-1 left and right, to put the team on his back. The rest of that team will always be underrated. Up until the finals, they scored more than enough goals to support Dom and they deserve a good share of the credit. In the final, of course, they fizzled. Dom played well, but just when he was asked to carry the team, he couldn't quite do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Where has she been lately anyway? Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing any Inkman posts in a few days either. So either they're... or he's... dear God, I just threw up a little in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Come on. Teams are only deep when they produce? What kind of twisted logic is that? Look at the rosters fielded by Colorado, Detroit, Pittsburgh - they had talent throughout the roster. Most had three strong lines and 4-5 solid defensemen, and either an elite (Roy, Dom) goalie or a solid, unspectacular one (Osgood, Fleury). I wouldn't characterize the 99 Sabres as such. They had a HoF goalie and two forwards. And there was no editorial omission of Carolina. First, I didn't list every Cup winner for the last 15 years, only the ones that immediately came to mind as having more talent than "a bunch of role players and 1-2 difference makers". And second, yes, I think they did have a fairly deep team, but certainly more talent than the 99 Sabres. So we should fire Lindy because you're bored and you know what you're going to see from a Lindy Ruff team? OK. If Everyone knows that Lindy and DR are (or damn well should be) on the hotseat this year. IMO they have to make the playoffs and win at least one round to keep their jobs safe. Whether that happens or not is up to OSP, but both DR and LR should be nervous about their jobs, even if it is partly due to being saddled with a group of sausage-grabbing marys who think they are talented enough to not take opponents seriously or say things like "it's just a game". How talented and deep did you think pittsburgh was in march when they were tenth in the conference? What changed? If Lindy gets ALL the credit when they are good, he has to get at least some of the blame when they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 How talented and deep did you think pittsburgh was in march when they were tenth in the conference? What changed? If Lindy gets ALL the credit when they are good, he has to get at least some of the blame when they aren't. What I don't understand is, clearly the team is still suffering from the same motivational issues that have been their undoing for the past two seasons. Now, this may or may not piss off Lindy to no end, I have no idea which. What I DO know however, is that if he wants his team ready and motivated, he should definitely start trying something different than whatever he's been doing for the past three seasons, cause clearly its not working. I also have no doubt whatsoever, that coaching a team where Derek Roy and Thomas Vanek are supposed to be leaders must be beyond difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 How talented and deep did you think pittsburgh was in march when they were tenth in the conference? What changed? If Lindy gets ALL the credit when they are good, he has to get at least some of the blame when they aren't. This is the first thing you've posted that I somewhat agree with (I never said Lindy gets ALL the credit, not even close) but the flip side is true - you have to give Lindy some of the credit when they are going well. It's not just him getting lucky with a change in the rules or having a HoF goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 What I don't understand is, clearly the team is still suffering from the same motivational issues that have been their undoing for the past two seasons. Now, this may or may not piss off Lindy to no end, I have no idea which. What I DO know however, is that if he wants his team ready and motivated, he should definitely start trying something different than whatever he's been doing for the past three seasons, cause clearly its not working. I also have no doubt whatsoever, that coaching a team where Derek Roy and Thomas Vanek are supposed to be leaders must be beyond difficult. My gut says that this is more of the case than we thought. Not just Vanek and Roy, but Pommer, Hecht, etc are not the leaders we hoped (or needed) they would be. I'm wondering Lindy is out of tricks and if it's part of the reason he jumped at the chance to pick Babcock's brain as part of Team Canada's coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 This is the first thing you've posted that I somewhat agree with (I never said Lindy gets ALL the credit, not even close) but the flip side is true - you have to give Lindy some of the credit when they are going well. It's not just him getting lucky with a change in the rules or having a HoF goaltender. I agree, somewhat. I think he did do a great job with the Hasek team. They probably went deeper than they should have with that talent. But I think that that reputation has far outlived reality. I believe he did benefit from the rule changes and that team did not go as far as it could have. I also think he doesn't get the most out of the talent we have on this team right now. At this point in time, do I think he is a good coach? Yes,.. but there are lots of good coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I agree, somewhat. I think he did do a great job with the Hasek team. They probably went deeper than they should have with that talent. But I think that that reputation has far outlived reality. I believe he did benefit from the rule changes and that team did not go as far as it could have. I also think he doesn't get the most out of the talent we have on this team right now. At this point in time, do I think he is a good coach? Yes,.. but there are lots of good coaches. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Anyway, that's ancient history. Today's line, according to Lindy and the company, is that there's parity in the league, very little separating the teams. One goal here, one goal there, and you can win it all. Lack of talent is no longer an excuse here. May the best coach win. Was Lindy supposed to say for our benefit: "Look at my roster. Look at who my bozo bosses decided to keep and who they decided to let go, or blundered their way into losing, or missed the boat entirely on. I can only make chicken salad out of sausage grabbing Marys a certain percentage of the time." Of course not. No coach who is trying to win is going to throw his roster under the bus. That is an express bus to Leaf-land. Any coach who lives on the planet earth is going to try to squeeze out as many wins as possible from the guys he has, and complaints about the roster will be voiced privately to the GM. For example, I'd expect this happened privately in the offseason regarding the backup goalie position, resulting in the attempt to get Marty here. But we didn't hear anything from Lindy publicly about Lalime, because he knows Lalime is going to have to play sometimes, and he didn't want the team and the world to know he had zero confidence in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Can I just say how excited I am that the phrase "sausage grabbing Marys" is appearing more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Can I just say how excited I am that the phrase "sausage grabbing Marys" is appearing more and more. It's really been a strong addition to the board. Kinda like the Sabres adding Grier or Montador or Myers, or, really, anyone other than one of the sausage grabbing Marys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Can I just say how excited I am that the phrase "sausage grabbing Marys" is appearing more and more. But will it ever be shortened to SGM like OSP was? You have a long way to go, kid. And didn't Roy get HIS sausage grabbed? I'm not doubting he grabbed link as well, or that at some point there was sausage and gravy on a biscuit. I shall now retire to my chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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