jad1 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 It's not uniform. It varies. Anyone can tell you that. Seriously... Again, the point is that the Sabres had to react to a big hit. They didn't have the appetite, hunger or desire to get their own hands dirty and lay a hit like that on their opponent. The point is that they DID react to a hit, and won the game. Neil wasn't the difference between the two teams. Your point seems to be if the Sabres had a player that layed out an opponent, they would have won the Cup, like when Campbell hit Umberger, right? The real difference between the two teams is Tallinder's and Lydman's decline as a top defensive pairing. When the Sabres had an NHL-quality top defensive pairing, they could handle Ottawa's top line. Since the two have gone south, and haven't been replaced, Heatley, Alfredsson, and Spezza have owned the Sabres. That mindset showed up in the playoffs, when they were lucky they drew the Islanders. A similar performance against a stronger 8 seed would have meant one and done for Buffalo. Without Drury's miracle in Game 5, they're out in the next round. Drury's goal happened in the Rangers series, not the Islanders, so I'll just chalk this "point" up to you pulling another thing out of your ass. Ottawa finally exposed the fraud as I predicted all season (my mantra was "Sens in five"), and IMHO a critical moment along the way that allowed the Sens a psychological advantage was that hit. Sure, the Sabres responded, but it was all fairly routine. Didn't Peters fail to land a serious blow on a goaltender? And the Sabres ended up looking even weaker in the wake of the event when Daddy had to write a letter to the head of the squirt league to complain about how mean the other boys were being. If you were right about Ottawa winning the series, congratulations on finally getting something right. The rest of your claim remains laughable. While Emery was involved in the fight, the Sabres did go after Neil, your wet dream tough guy, and they went after Ottawa's top line, which caused Murray to bitch and moan about Ruff going after their top line. There was no psychological advantage gained. Stafford fought Neil (and scored the game winner), Buffalo won the game, and the Ottawa coach cried to the media. Again, the difference in the series was Ottawa's top line. In '05-'06, Tallinder and Lydman could handle the, in '06-'07, they couldn't. Go play with your wii. If I had one, it would be a helluva lot more interesting than you. You're more on the level of pong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The point is that they DID react to a hit, and won the game. Neil wasn't the difference between the two teams. Your point seems to be if the Sabres had a player that layed out an opponent, they would have won the Cup, like when Campbell hit Umberger, right? The real difference between the two teams is Tallinder's and Lydman's decline as a top defensive pairing. When the Sabres had an NHL-quality top defensive pairing, they could handle Ottawa's top line. Since the two have gone south, and haven't been replaced, Heatley, Alfredsson, and Spezza have owned the Sabres. Drury's goal happened in the Rangers series, not the Islanders, so I'll just chalk this "point" up to you pulling another thing out of your ass. If you were right about Ottawa winning the series, congratulations on finally getting something right. The rest of your claim remains laughable. While Emery was involved in the fight, the Sabres did go after Neil, your wet dream tough guy, and they went after Ottawa's top line, which caused Murray to bitch and moan about Ruff going after their top line. There was no psychological advantage gained. Stafford fought Neil (and scored the game winner), Buffalo won the game, and the Ottawa coach cried to the media. Again, the difference in the series was Ottawa's top line. In '05-'06, Tallinder and Lydman could handle the, in '06-'07, they couldn't. If I had one, it would be a helluva lot more interesting than you. You're more on the level of pong. Wow, kind of a lonely Friday night huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well, this might be a stretch. There are plenty of tough forwards who are skilled enough to be top-6 and have enough leadership to help the Sabres more than Neil would. But it doesn't need to be (and shouldn't be) one or the other. The Sabres should dump Hecht, Tallinder and Paille -- that's $7.5MM right there, plenty enough to pay for Neil plus a top-6 forward. Also, I think Gaustad is definitely the 3rd-line center this year, and if we were to add Neil, I would guess that either Neil or Kaleta would be on Gaustad's line. I never said anything about leadership. I don't want Neil to be the leader of the Sabres. I want Neil's nasty streak. There will be more talented players available in free agency or trades. Most of which are out of the Sabres price range. There are few, if any, players available that play physical and nasty as Neil does. That is what this team needs. The Sabres need to start adding players who have a reason to wear a cup, not just because it's mandatory. The Sabres can sign or trade for a 30-40 goal scorer it won't make them a playoff team. Unless that 30-40 goal scorer plays with a real nasty streak. I doubt there are many available. If there is, chances are the Sabres can not afford them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The point is that they DID react to a hit, and won the game. Neil wasn't the difference between the two teams. Your point seems to be if the Sabres had a player that layed out an opponent, they would have won the Cup, like when Campbell hit Umberger, right? The real difference between the two teams is Tallinder's and Lydman's decline as a top defensive pairing. When the Sabres had an NHL-quality top defensive pairing, they could handle Ottawa's top line. Since the two have gone south, and haven't been replaced, Heatley, Alfredsson, and Spezza have owned the Sabres. They reacted to a hit three years ago. How did this current team react to Miller getting run this season? Campbell hit's once every two - three years. Neil is a player that plays physical every night. Neil was hugely important to the Sens success over the years. He is a physical player that can play a regular shift. Let's face it the Sabres don't have anyone like that on their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 They reacted to a hit three years ago. How did this current team react to Miller getting run this season? Campbell hit's once every two - three years. Neil is a player that plays physical every night. Neil was hugely important to the Sens success over the years. He is a physical player that can play a regular shift. Let's face it the Sabres don't have anyone like that on their roster. Fanboys can say whatever they want, but you, I, and a few others know for a FACT he would become an INSTANT crowd favorite. He's everything a Sabre fan yearns for, and in my opinion, has potential to improve offensively as well. He's the best fit for THIS team for THAT price.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 With the cap lowering and Connolly's contract I don't think the Sabres will be willing to pay "top 6" money unless they are able to dump salaries. The lowering cap myth. Detroit sure seems to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 I never said anything about leadership. I don't want Neil to be the leader of the Sabres. I want Neil's nasty streak. There will be more talented players available in free agency or trades. Most of which are out of the Sabres price range. There are few, if any, players available that play physical and nasty as Neil does. That is what this team needs. The Sabres need to start adding players who have a reason to wear a cup, not just because it's mandatory. The Sabres can sign or trade for a 30-40 goal scorer it won't make them a playoff team. Unless that 30-40 goal scorer plays with a real nasty streak. I doubt there are many available. If there is, chances are the Sabres can not afford them. Just another contrarian! People don't like it when the obvious is stated -- Sabres aren't tough enough, Sabres' record this decade justified a coaching change, Miller's not an elite goalie. Better to live in Fa-La-La-La Land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 They reacted to a hit three years ago. How did this current team react to Miller getting run this season? Campbell hit's once every two - three years. Neil is a player that plays physical every night. Neil was hugely important to the Sens success over the years. He is a physical player that can play a regular shift. Let's face it the Sabres don't have anyone like that on their roster. While it's easy to point to the Sens' Big 3 as the reason they've owned the Sabres, my mind keeps flashing to the shifts immediately before Alfie abuses Millsie again. It usually involves Neil raising hell in the Buffalo zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Just another contrarian! People don't like it when the obvious is stated -- Sabres aren't tough enough, Sabres' record this decade justified a coaching change, Miller's not an elite goalie. Better to live in Fa-La-La-La Land. This is the real "most important move the Sabres need to make ". Deluca's been beating this toughness drum to death and it's crap. Detroit is last in the league in fighting majors and last in the league is hits...yes, HITS. Maybe they're looking at Neil as well. Doubt it. It just shows what a sad state this team is in that CHRIS NEIL appears to be the savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalonian Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Wouldn't Neil just take the place of what we are trying to turn Kaleta into? I for one think Kaleta will be a better mans Neil in the near future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 This is the real "most important move the Sabres need to make ". Deluca's been beating this toughness drum to death and it's crap. Detroit is last in the league in fighting majors and last in the league is hits...yes, HITS. Maybe they're looking at Neil as well. Doubt it. It just shows what a sad state this team is in that CHRIS NEIL appears to be the savior. The Sabres are nowhere near as tough as the Red Wings. The Wings "skilled" players play tougher than the Sabres players with "git". If the Sabres forwards could play with the intensity and toughness the Wings forwards do they wouldn't need a Chris Neil. I am starting to wonder if you watch any hockey at all. If Vanek, Roy and Pominville could play like Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen the Sabres wouldn't have a toughness issue. They don't and the Sabres do. Keep living in denial. I'm sure it's what the Sabres plan to do and we will be having the same conversation next off-season when the Sabres are sitting at home watching 16 other teams in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabreskings3623 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Eh... I wouldn't mind Neil, he'd add toughness to the bottom six forward corps, and might actually fight. If he'll take $1.3 per year for two years, sign him. I just don't want to see us overpay for another bottom six forward... Chris Neil is not/will not be a savior for the Sabres or any team. Yes, he would provide some much needed toughness, grit and minimal scoring ability(Wait, don't we have a younger right winger who wears #36 that does that?), but Neil's no savior, and most likely doesn't have much "potential to improve his offense" left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Wouldn't Neil just take the place of what we are trying to turn Kaleta into? I for one think Kaleta will be a better mans Neil in the near future Kaleta is a long way off from being able to play a regular shift. Kaleta does have some of the same tools. As a Kaleta fan wouldn't it be awesome to have Chris Neil in his ear teaching how to really get under people's skin and maybe even teach him to fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalonian Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Kaleta is a long way off from being able to play a regular shift. Kaleta does have some of the same tools. As a Kaleta fan wouldn't it be awesome to have Chris Neil in his ear teaching how to really get under people's skin and maybe even teach him to fight? I feel like he doesn't need much more help learning about how to get under people's skin. He does it on his own on a regular game basis. And while Neil may be able to help him on his fighting, we still have Peters for that role... I don't know but it just seems like signing Neil would be kind of redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The Sabres are nowhere near as tough as the Red Wings. The Wings "skilled" players play tougher than the Sabres players with "git". If the Sabres forwards could play with the intensity and toughness the Wings forwards do they wouldn't need a Chris Neil. I am starting to wonder if you watch any hockey at all. If Vanek, Roy and Pominville could play like Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen the Sabres wouldn't have a toughness issue. They don't and the Sabres do. Keep living in denial. I'm sure it's what the Sabres plan to do and we will be having the same conversation next off-season when the Sabres are sitting at home watching 16 other teams in the playoffs. Maybe we can take time out from our "Lindy should go" conversation to talk about this. I'm not disagreeing that the Sabres need more toughness(maybe), but if you think that Chris Neil is the guy to bring it to the team then I'm starting to wonder how much hockey YOU watch(other than Sabres games that is). If this playing tough is so important then how is it that our "elite" coach can't get our team to change, but a 3rd(4th?) line player is going to bring it out of them? I really think this thread should have ended after this post: Funny thing, though, Neil was roundly criticized for forgetting what he is and trying to become more of an all around player. From my perspective, this team needs more of a veteran "top 6" forward. I think the grit factor is over-rated. Its the leadership factor that this team sorely misses up front. Scoring the big goal after a mistake changes the momentum. Keeping everyone into the game when they think the games over. Those are the things this team has sorely lacked the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The lowering cap myth. Detroit sure seems to think otherwise. Bettman was on during one of the intermissions last game and he said it will either stay the same or drop slightly. Now I know everyone here hates him, but I'll take his word on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Interesting thread. To some extent, I agree with the toughness and lack of it from the forward ranks. However, I'm not sure Neil is the answer or the savior. The grit needs to come in combination with the scoring in the top 6. This is why I think Erik Cole is the guy the Sabres absolutely have to bring in. He's a consistent 20 goal scorer who brings the physical edge and can drop the gloves when needed. He is the definition of a true power forward and I think he's a game changer for the Sabres. Having said that I'm not opposed to bringing in Neil if enough salary is dropped from the team, but I think Erik Cole is the real game changer that this team absolutely needs. Just my opinion, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ForTripping Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Grow a pair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisky Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Most important move is to make some kind of move or moves...for new players. Gotta ditch some dead weight. But, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Maybe we can take time out from our "Lindy should go" conversation to talk about this. I'm not disagreeing that the Sabres need more toughness(maybe), but if you think that Chris Neil is the guy to bring it to the team then I'm starting to wonder how much hockey YOU watch(other than Sabres games that is). If this playing tough is so important then how is it that our "elite" coach can't get our team to change, but a 3rd(4th?) line player is going to bring it out of them?I really think this thread should have ended after this post: The problem wouldn't be Ruff, it would be Regier. No coach can make Pominville tougher. Ruff has done wonders with what he has been given. I started the thread saying Neil is the most important player the Sabres can pick up this off-season and no one has made a convincing argument to contrary. Also, Why is it assumed that Neil would be a third or fourth liner on the Sabres? The Sabres aren't that deep at forward that Neil couldn't come in and find himself in the Sabres top six. Put him on a line with Roy and Vanek and let him create havoc and room for his "skilled" line-mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiVbaby Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 The problem wouldn't be Ruff, it would be Regier. No coach can make Pominville tougher. Ruff has done wonders with what he has been given. I started the thread saying Neil is the most important player the Sabres can pick up this off-season and no one has made a convincing argument to contrary. Also, Why is it assumed that Neil would be a third or fourth liner on the Sabres? The Sabres aren't that deep at forward that Neil couldn't come in and find himself in the Sabres top six. Put him on a line with Roy and Vanek and let him create havoc and room for his "skilled" line-mates. Call me old fashioned but I want Neil nowhere near the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 A new owner with deep pockets and committment to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Why is it assumed that Neil would be a third or fourth liner on the Sabres? The Sabres aren't that deep at forward that Neil couldn't come in and find himself in the Sabres top six. Put him on a line with Roy and Vanek and let him create havoc and room for his "skilled" line-mates. I'm not disputing the lack of team toughness issue, but even suggesting that Chris Neil could be a top six forward on this team hopefully would be an indication to you that there just might be a larger problem overall here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I'm not disputing the lack of team toughness issue, but even suggesting that Chris Neil could be a top six forward on this team hopefully would be an indication to you that there just might be a larger problem overall here. I said since last off-season that this team has a huge problem with forward depth. It is indeed a larger problem overall. Unfortunately, with management being in love with what they have created it will remain a problem that will not be addressed. My thought on Neil being the most important move is that it is a realistict move that makes financial sense and will allow management to make a change with admitting their faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I think its pretty obvious this team needs a top flight defenseman or two. It wasn't a Chris Neil typ player last night that shut down Malkin and Crosby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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