Two questions about our top 5 scoring forwards...

[LabattBlue]

Just continuing to beat the drum that the Sabres need to trade one of their "Fab 5" in an attempt to get this team back on track.

[jimiVbaby]

Just continuing to beat the drum that the Sabres need to trade one of their "Fab 5" in an attempt to get this team back on track.

Pominville/Roy

 

Both because of their contracts...

[billsrcursed]

Pominville/Roy

 

Both because of their contracts...

 

Ditto....

[nfreeman]

For me the 1st question was a bit of a close call between Pommer and Stafford, but I went with Pommer, chiefly because of disparities in contract and size. I think Vanek absolutely brings much more in trade than anyone else. 40 goals twice in his 4 years in the NHL, size, youth, speed and durability -- I actually don't think it's even close.

 

Backing up, though, it's pretty generous to call that spotty group the "Fab 5".

 

OTOH, I don't think any of those 5 is going to be traded.

[darksabre]

For me the 1st question was a bit of a close call between Pommer and Stafford, but I went with Pommer, chiefly because of disparities in contract and size. I think Vanek absolutely brings much more in trade than anyone else. 40 goals twice in his 4 years in the NHL, size, youth, speed and durability -- I actually don't think it's even close.

 

Backing up, though, it's pretty generous to call that spotty group the "Fab 5".

 

OTOH, I don't think any of those 5 is going to be traded.

 

And if that happens, this off season will have been a waste.

[...]

Pominville/Roy

 

Both because of their contracts...

 

 

I'm not down on Roy because of his contract, I'm down on him because I think he's a douche in the locker room.

 

Pommers won't bring but a bag of used pucks in a trade, so he's out of this poll.

 

Roy is the best bet for getting a decent return and actually doing something to bring the team back to life.

[darksabre]

I'm not down on Roy because of his contract, I'm down on him because I think he's a douche in the locker room.

Pommers won't bring but a bag of used pucks in a trade, so he's out of this poll.

 

Roy is the best bet for getting a decent return and actually doing something to bring the team back to life.

 

I can't say I agree with that at all. I think Pomminstein could get a pretty good return as a young player who, although talented, had a bad year. So long as the consensus among GM's across the league is that he isn't a locker room cancer, I don't see why he wouldn't bring a good return in a trade. I would imagine he could be considered one of those players who needs a change of scenery.

[...]

I can't say I agree with that at all. I think Pomminstein could get a pretty good return as a young player who, although talented, had a bad year. So long as the consensus among GM's across the league is that he isn't a locker room cancer, I don't see why he wouldn't bring a good return in a trade. I would imagine he could be considered one of those players who needs a change of scenery.

 

 

If that were true, I'd say go for it. But, I just can't believe he's worth anything to anyone right now.

[darksabre]

If that were true, I'd say go for it. But, I just can't believe he's worth anything to anyone right now.

 

If Edmonton would take Kotalik for a 2nd round pick then Pomminstein must be worth a little more than that at least.

[Cereal]

I'll admit, I'm not as hockey knowledgeable as a lot of you guys. But, to me, it seems that Lindy has lost the core of this team. I feel that Lindy SHOULD be a wonderful asset to this franchise, but, unless we get rid of a few of these top guys -- to show the others that we mean business -- then Lindy could be forced to leave after next season. We need to set things straight quickly and sternly, and that may mean:

 

- trading Roy: I think maybe our best current trade bait. Also, I feel he does nothing to help the fact that our team's a bunch of smelly swollen vaginas

 

- trading Hecht: please please please, if anyone will take him... if/when we get the lesser end of the deal, I feel that the cap space opened up will be valuable. Also, please believe me, I tried and I tried to give him a chance this year, but he proved worthless for an ENTIRE season

 

- trading Connolly would be nice, BUT it would have to be for something nice. I'm still VERY skeptical of signing him, but you all know that if he works out, then 365 days from know, most of us will be hailing him or Darcy or whomever yada yada yada...

 

- Stafford: I'd say more likely that he performs much better in the next few years than whatever we would get in return for getting rid of him. Wouldn't be opposed to trading him for the right compensation, but I don't feel that at this point we'd be able to get what I'd want for him. However, es posible.

 

- Vanek: We need a superstar... the thing is that I don't believe he could be the leader we need on this team. On the other hand, I do not think that we COULD trade him for someone of similar caliber, similar salary, yet improved leaadership. If anyone know of anyone on any team that needs to move to another team this offseason, please enlighten me? Vanek appears to be very safe this offseason.

 

- Pommmmmers: Unfortunately, I feel that not many people outside the few of us will recognize that his season was not that weak in 08-09. For the right price, I;d ditch him, but I don't think that'll happen this offseason.

 

 

 

 

If anyone read all of my thoughts, I'd really really like to hear any reactions. Thanks!

 

 

 

And... summary: In my view, Vanek seems the only """untouchable""", unless there's someone on some other team that needs to be traded that is of similar caliber but a leader type. If 3-4 of the other 5 could be gone, at least Lindy could get a new group of players, right? So... please try to get rid of Jochen, Roy, Connolly?, plus one of Staff/Pommers? that sounds like quite a chore...

 

D-men, I feel that I have even less an idea about. For another day... and another thread....

[LabattBlue]

Backing up, though, it's pretty generous to call that spotty group the "Fab 5".

It was a tongue in cheek reference to our best 5 offensive forwards.

[jimiVbaby]

I'm not down on Roy because of his contract, I'm down on him because I think he's a douche in the locker room.

 

Pommers won't bring but a bag of used pucks in a trade, so he's out of this poll.

 

Roy is the best bet for getting a decent return and actually doing something to bring the team back to life.

I will clarify.

 

Pomminstein - I'd like to be traded because of his huge contact coming up.

 

Roy - Is a tradable commodity because of his smaller contract compared to his production.

[...]

I will clarify.

 

Pomminstein - I'd like to be traded because of his huge contact coming up.

 

Roy - Is a tradable commodity because of his smaller contract compared to his production.

 

 

Yeah, I caught that after I posted. Poll 1, Poll 2. My answer would be Roy/Roy. Althought there are a lot more players I'd like to get rid of ahead of Roy, but who would have little to no return value.

[nfreeman]

I can't say I agree with that at all. I think Pomminstein could get a pretty good return as a young player who, although talented, had a bad year. So long as the consensus among GM's across the league is that he isn't a locker room cancer, I don't see why he wouldn't bring a good return in a trade. I would imagine he could be considered one of those players who needs a change of scenery.

If Edmonton would take Kotalik for a 2nd round pick then Pomminstein must be worth a little more than that at least.

He is a good young player who has been quite productive. The problem is his contract. $5.25MM per year for the next five years is a lot to swallow for a smaller guy whose goalscoring has gone from 34 to 27 to 20.

[VansTheMans]

It comes down to Roy or Connolly.

 

This team needs a trade that will alleviate some cap space AND needs to shake up its' core. Since Stafford doesn't have a large salary, he doesn't fit that bill.

 

Pommers would be difficult to trade due to his very large contract and coming off a semi weak season. He also isn't one of our forwards I feel has an attitude problem. He's out of the picture.

 

Vanek is arguably untouchable due to his caliber of talent (we'd have to get Dany Heatly for example to get someone with similar talent). Scratch Vanek from the list.

 

So, it comes back down to Roy or TC.

 

Roy has the better contract. At under 4 million dollars a season, he's a bargain. Problem is, he's a smallish center with ego issues. The other problem with Roy is he doesn't realize how small he is on the ice; he play's like he's Ryan Getzlaf. Instead of playing smart positional hockey, Roy this past season decided it'd be much wiser to just bowl over the blue line and attempt to shove dmen out of his way. Problem is, he doesn't have the size or strength to do that.

 

TC at 4.5 million. It upsets me the Sabres had to dish out a raise to Connolly, but that's the nature of the market. His skill set is that of a number one center. He has the shot, he has the offensive vision and the playmaking ability to be a lethal asset to this team. Problem is...he's injury prone. Do we feel he can play an entire healthy season? Im very uncomfortable placing too much on this guy's shoulder; he might break his collar bone if we do.

 

Both Roy and TC play pretty solid two way games. TC is overall the better player though. He's a natural playmaker, something this team hasn't had since Danny Briere.

 

In dishing out Roy or TC, the team still takes a huge hit in the center position. If Roy is traded, Connolly is the undeniable number one center. However, if Connolly goes down again, and we have no Roy, the Sabres would be in DIRE trouble and have a huge gap they'd be unable to fill down the middle.

 

Its dangerous for the Sabres to trade either one of their centers, but thats what a trade is all about. Honestly, Roy would, across the league, fetch the higher return. I doubt most organizations are jumping to sign the oft injured Connolly to their team, but you bet they'd be interested in a 4 million dollar 70-80 point per season Derek Roy.

 

One of them should be traded. Which one? It depends on what the return would be. If you tell me outright that TC could be shipped for a big, mean crushing dman, that'd be worth it(ala Columbus' Klesla). On the other hand, if you told me Roy could be shipped out and we'd get a bigger, grittier center in return(ala Ryan Kesler out of Vancouver), that'd be worth it as well. Pick your poison.

[FearTheReaper]

- trading Hecht: please please please, if anyone will take him... if/when we get the lesser end of the deal, I feel that the cap space opened up will be valuable. Also, please believe me, I tried and I tried to give him a chance this year, but he proved worthless for an ENTIRE season

 

- - Stafford: I'd say more likely that he performs much better in the next few years than whatever we would get in return for getting rid of him. Wouldn't be opposed to trading him for the right compensation, but I don't feel that at this point we'd be able to get what I'd want for him. However, es posible.

 

I agree totally on the Hecht point. And for Stafford. I've grown quite tired of "waiting for him to mature". Or as Regier likes to say,i'm out of "patience" with him. I think the future of the team looks very bright. With up and comers like Kennedy and Gerbe,and to a lesser extent,Hunter and Ennis. Its the present that looks dim.

 

I feel that moving Stafford is a pretty good idea. He must have a good trade value.Hes young,and could prove to be a solid goal scorer,if he played(heres that magic word again) consistently. Certaintly not enough to bring in a superstar. But enough to merit some attention. Why not move Stafford and a good pick for a solid D man? Then bring in Mancari?

 

Mancari looked great when he was up here earlier in the season. He was a force playing along side the Goose. Then Lindy moved him and ruined perfectly good chemistry. He needs to be brought up full time. Great shot,physical,responsible defensivly. BRING HIM UP!!!

 

I suppose thats to much to ask of Darcy. Stafford deserves another 3 seasons to "develop". Kinda like Max. :death:

[That Aud Smell]

first things first: i don't expect management to shake up this roster, at least not among the forward ranks. i can see them moving tallinder in a *meh* sort of deal, but that's about the outward limit.

 

i voted roy and then vanek. as to the latter, there can't really be any debate, and i was surprised to see a competitive vote. as for the former, he's top-3 among guys we should move so as to change the culture of the team and also a guy for whom we would get a good return on the asset.

[nfreeman]

Another word on Roy: while I've been as critical as him as anyone, and I think he's emblematic of the problems this team has, I'd have a very hard time trading him. Bottom line is that he's a 25-yr-old center and is a pretty reliable 70-pt guy, with upside. Those guys don't grow on trees. (Not to mention he's locked up at a reasonable salary for a while.)

 

Roy needs not to be the #1 center or the guy that sets the tone for the rest of the team. With TC on the team, Roy doesn't need to be the #1 center. It's up to Darcy to get a couple of top-9 forwards (at least one of whom needs to be top-6) with grit, experience and leadership that the rest of the team (including Roy) can look up to and emulate.

 

I'd trade Gerbe or Pommer (and of course Hecht, Tallinder or Lydman) or a high draft pick before I traded Roy.

[BetweenThePipes00]

This is a really tough one ... I think it comes down to Roy in both cases ... well, technically Vanek would bring the most in a deal but you only deal a Vanek if you are rebuilding, and while we all agree this team needs a major shakeup, no one wants to start from scratch. Because his contract is pretty cap-friendly, I think Roy could bring something significant back.

Here's my theory about Roy, and I am curious what others think. And let me preface this by saying I don't really like the guy that much ... and this has nothing to do with what he brings (or lacks) as far as leadership or personality in the room .... it could be argued he needs to be traded just because of that ... but some friends of mine railed against him pretty good this past season, I kind of have to defend him ...

For what they are paying him, he is fine. IMO, Roy has been asked to be something he really isn't way too much the last couple years ... that is, he has either been asked to carry a top line OR gotten stuck trying to check the opponent's top line. To me, he is a second-line center who, because of his size, is going to be neautalized at times by a good checking line and have trouble defensively against bigger, physical lines. With Connolly hurt so much the last two years, Roy too often faced the opponents' top checkers. And then, even when Connolly was healthy, very often the Sabres had to play Connolly and Pominville against the opponents' top lines because they are responsible defensively and Gaustad doesn't skate well enough to be a true checking line center ... so if Ruff had to get Connolly's line out there against scoring lines, it freed up the opponents' checking lines to face Roy. Or Roy would get stuck out there against other teams' top lines and spend an entire shift doing something he is not built to do, that being go down low defensively and get the puck out.

So, obviously, the guy is limited by his size. But he's also a 70-plus point scorer who is still young and could get better, and they do not grow on trees. Roy is a GOOD PLAYER ...not GREAT, but GOOD. And really, he is paid as such. He is the perfect #2 center IF you have a good #1 to draw the other team's top checking line (Connolly when healthy?) and a true #3 who can handle other teams' top lines, win faceoffs, etc. (Sabres do not have this guy). For better or worse, he's just not built to deal with those things. Lindy STILL talks about how much he loved him on Drury's wing during the 2006 playoffs because there is less traffic and he doesn't need to defend down low like a center does when he is on the wing. He can do what he does when he is penalty killing, worry about the points and work the wall chipping pucks out, which he is good at. Moving him to wing really isn't an option because it creates another hole, so ...

I don't want this to turn into "so they should have just kept Drury!" ... no kidding, but it's ancient history now ... so going forward, if they can find a true checking line center, I really think it would make Connolly and Roy both better players ... Connolly because he wouldn't spend so many shifts chasing other teams' top lines and Roy because he'd be freed up from other teams' top checking lines like he was in 2006-07. And personally, I have always like Gaustad as the 4th line center while getting PK time and PP time in front of the net, and then you spot him late in games on other lines to win faceoffs and defend, etc if you have the lead. But there is a gaping hole at #3 center and the trickle-down hurts the other guys.

Again, despite all that, I would not be averse to dealing Connolly or Roy. Connolly has his health issues and Roy has his attitude questions ... I am just kind of thinking that if they do that, they then also need to replace their scoring and they STILL have that gaping hole at #3 center ...

And sorry I kind of hijacked the thread in another direction instead of just answering the question.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Another word on Roy: while I've been as critical as him as anyone, and I think he's emblematic of the problems this team has, I'd have a very hard time trading him. Bottom line is that he's a 25-yr-old center and is a pretty reliable 70-pt guy, with upside. Those guys don't grow on trees. (Not to mention he's locked up at a reasonable salary for a while.)

 

Roy needs not to be the #1 center or the guy that sets the tone for the rest of the team. With TC on the team, Roy doesn't need to be the #1 center. It's up to Darcy to get a couple of top-9 forwards (at least one of whom needs to be top-6) with grit, experience and leadership that the rest of the team (including Roy) can look up to and emulate.

 

I'd trade Gerbe or Pommer (and of course Hecht, Tallinder or Lydman) or a high draft pick before I traded Roy.

Obviously, I didn't see this because I was writing my diatribe while nfreeman was summing it up in reasonable fashion ...

[LabattBlue]

I would support trading Roy as I think this franchise needs a MAJOR shakeup. A few problems with this...

 

1. I don't think DR would do this or LQ would approve it. A young player with good productivity signed for a few more years with a good cap number...they'll put the blinders on, click their heels 3 times and repeatedly say "the team is okay, the team is okay, the team is okay..."

 

2. The minute they trade Roy every bone in Connolly's body will start aching.

 

3. Who takes over the role of the 2nd scoring center? Do they trade Roy to move up in the draft for a center who is at least a 1 or two years away? Make a separate trade to bring in another center? Trade Roy for a scoring center who may score less points but adds in the leadership/grit department? Not another year of Jochen Hecht at center! :wallbash:

[VansTheMans]

I would support trading Roy as I think this franchise needs a MAJOR shakeup. A few problems with this...

 

1. I don't think DR would do this or LQ would approve it. A young player with good productivity signed for a few more years with a good cap number...they'll put the blinders on, click their heels 3 times and repeatedly say "the team is okay, the team is okay, the team is okay..."

 

2. The minute they trade Roy every bone in Connolly's body will start aching.

 

3. Who takes over the role of the 2nd scoring center? Do they trade Roy to move up in the draft for a center who is at least a 1 or two years away? Make a separate trade to bring in another center? Trade Roy for a scoring center who may score less points but adds in the leadership/grit department? Not another year of Jochen Hecht at center! :wallbash:

 

No doubt. Trading a center from this team is a dangerous, dangerous feat.

 

I might be more inclined to move Pommers instead of one of our centers. I love Pommer's attitude, but honestly, if we could trade him for a grittier winger with leadership, I'd support the trade. Its nothing against J Pom, but due to the lack of centers on the team, trading Roy or TC could be very costly. Pommer's salary and his inability to play physically make him the more desirable player to trade(from the Sabres' perspective).

[...]

Someone mentioned Gerbe coming up. NO WAY would I rely on that dude to provide anything more than we have. If some of you think Connolly is an injury waiting to happen, Gerbe is triple that IMHO.

 

I say we package him up and trade him ASAP before he gets wrecked in a real NHL game.

[tom webster]

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that moving Roy is going to be the only way to shake up this line up. In my ideal scenario, any team interested in Roy and his cap friendly contract would be required to take Hecht and his contract off their hands. A lot will depend on what the team really thinks is the potential of Gerbe and Ennis because in my opinion, there is almost no way that you can have 2 of your top 6 forwards being under 5'9".

 

If you were somehow able to move Roy, Hecht and Tallinder and acquire a top 4 pick in the process ( I am not saying this would be the actual deal but part of a few deals. I don't guess at trade possibilities) , you free up almost $10 million in cap space and give yourself a chance at bringing in someone like Jay B. and a veteran center like a John Madden and an agitator like Ian Laperrire as well as that top 4 pick.

[nfreeman]

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that moving Roy is going to be the only way to shake up this line up. In my ideal scenario, any team interested in Roy and his cap friendly contract would be required to take Hecht and his contract off their hands. A lot will depend on what the team really thinks is the potential of Gerbe and Ennis because in my opinion, there is almost no way that you can have 2 of your top 6 forwards being under 5'9".

 

If you were somehow able to move Roy, Hecht and Tallinder and acquire a top 4 pick in the process ( I am not saying this would be the actual deal but part of a few deals. I don't guess at trade possibilities) , you free up almost $10 million in cap space and give yourself a chance at bringing in someone like Jay B. and a veteran center like a John Madden and an agitator like Ian Laperrire as well as that top 4 pick.

Good post. I don't see anyone giving up a top 4 pick for those guys though, unless we also included some combination of picks and prospects.