LabattBlue Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Basically, what I'm saying is that he took a health-history based discount, especially given the short term of the deal, but not nearly as much of one as I would have expected. Huh? What part of his career would have justified more than 4.5 mil a year regardless of the term of the contract? I don't see any discount at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 i don't think sauve missed your point entirely, deluca. if connolly's "softness" does not owe to his inability to lay people out and grind forechecks like a beaver working a log, then to what does his "softness" owe? while there's plenty of dangle and finesse to the guy's game, i can't say he's soft. x. benedict had a better take on this than i can provide here, but the bottom line is that connolly regularly puts himself in dangerous situations/positions, probably too much so (you can be sure he had a plan when he got in those trolley tracks in ottawa in 2006). by soft, are you saying that he lacks heart? that he disappears? floats? i think you need to be more precise. oh, and fwiw, i don't like the signing. to me, relying on connolly to be our #1-A or -B center guarantees that we won't contend for three years, minimum. i just don't think his health will hold up -- it was a bad risk. (god, let me be wrong.) in truth, i'd rather we sever ties with the guy, spiral downward and even genuinely stink for a couple years, which would compel the franchise to rebuild. wtf is with all this equivocation -- when you're just griping about the guy, you're as unequivocal as rush limbaugh talking about our 44th president ... then taro t. asks you to put or shut up and you start equivocating like . :nana: I voted take the 4.5 and run ..... to the market or better yet to the trading table with possibly even a couple other players, prospects or picks involved to get what you want/need. Nothing personal with him and FWIW I do not care for the bashing of anyone violates the Golden Rule... I just think the train has left the station in this case and the time waiting and hoping for miracles should be done and like better the idea of taking charge and making our own luck....... Note that choice is also based on my humble opinion that overall as a team the sabres are too soft and with Burke and Wilson in our divison for the forseeable future like it or not the style is going to change even more to the old NHL, western league style and I think we need to be prepared for that and start building the team accordingly to compete/survive that style.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Huh? What part of his career would have justified more than 4.5 mil a year regardless of the term of the contract? I don't see any discount at all. I didn't mean a home-town discount over what some other team would have given him. What I meant was a health-based discount from what an equivalently skilled player with a clean health history would have received. Playmaking, scoring-line centers are some of the highest paid players in the game. I would guess that a healthy Connolly would probably produce 70+ points per year (about what he's produced in close to a season worth of games over the last two seasons; he may be a little higher when playing consistently or a little lower) and would have received a 4 or 5 year contract somewhere in the $5-$6 million range. Even at the low end of that, if the team wanted to do a two-year deal, the price would have been higher. So, I see 2-years at $4.5 million per as a discount versus what a healthy Timmy would have received, but not as big of one as I think his health history should have required. Plus, a small home-town discount on top of that would have been nice since the Sabres basically gave him free money, especially in the first year of his last contract when they knew that he wouldn't play. Maybe my estimates are high, but the July FA market usually produces extremely high salaries and not just because the cap was going up, but because the supply is so small for the big holes that a lot of teams want to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Huh? What part of his career would have justified more than 4.5 mil a year regardless of the term of the contract? I don't see any discount at all. I didn't mean a home-town discount over what some other team would have given him. What I meant was a health-based discount from what an equivalently skilled player with a clean health history would have received. Playmaking, scoring-line centers are some of the highest paid players in the game. I would guess that a healthy Connolly would probably produce 70+ points per year (about what he's produced in close to a season worth of games over the last two seasons; he may be a little higher when playing consistently or a little lower) and would have received a 4 or 5 year contract somewhere in the $5-$6 million range. Even at the low end of that, if the team wanted to do a two-year deal, the price would have been higher. So, I see 2-years at $4.5 million per as a discount versus what a healthy Timmy would have received, but not as big of one as I think his health history should have required. Plus, a small home-town discount on top of that would have been nice since the Sabres basically gave him free money, especially in the first year of his last contract when they knew that he wouldn't play. Maybe my estimates are high, but the July FA market usually produces extremely high salaries and not just because the cap was going up, but because the supply is so small for the big holes that a lot of teams want to fill. somehow, i agree substantially with both of you. it's true that there's a discount in the terms to which he agreed, i just don't think the discount is deep enough, especially in view of where this market is headed. and with Burke and Wilson in our divison for the forseeable future like it or not the style is going to change even more to the old NHL, western league style and I think we need to be prepared for that and start building the team accordingly to compete/survive that style.... this is a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I was listening to WGR550 yesterday, and they were interviewing Goose. Goose stated that prior to Tim Connolly's injury spurt, he was the "Iron Man" on the team, never missing games for injuries. Check his stats -- his first four years, he was very healthy. With all the doom and gloom on here, I never would have guessed that. I know Connolly's had a tough run, but let's hope he turned the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I would take the $4.5 million and try to change the make up of this team. Even with a healthy Tim Connolly (lmao) the Sabres are still a soft team. They maybe even softer with him in the lineup. just for context...which teams do you consider "not soft" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Oh??? Connolly has nothing to do with being a hard hitting team, he is about points, which you need to win. If the game was all about running people over, Pat Kaleta would be the highest paid player on the team. You can't win without scoring goals, that's why Darcy signed Timmy. Good move, IMO :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for all those who think this team needs to get tougher first....take a look at teams ahead of us in the standings and look at their top scorers and compare them to ours...not even close, we have two 20 goals scorers...two. not enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I was listening to WGR550 yesterday, and they were interviewing Goose. Goose stated that prior to Tim Connolly's injury spurt, he was the "Iron Man" on the team, never missing games for injuries. Check his stats -- his first four years, he was very healthy. With all the doom and gloom on here, I never would have guessed that. I know Connolly's had a tough run, but let's hope he turned the corner. I believe that most everyone here knew that -- it's been discussed before -- but you have to go back all the way to 2002-03 to see the last year in which he was an iron man. That's a long time ago and he has had a lot of partial seasons (often very small parts) since then. Maybe it's all just been bad luck, but the recent evidence is more compelling than that from six years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 just for context...which teams do you consider "not soft" I know you didn't direct it at me but because I used the term 'soft' describing the team in my post I'll give my 2 cents. First my definition of soft applies to the team and not just the player. So to me it starts with the style the team plays which we all know is also tied to having the players to play that style. Not soft teams for me use an up tempo style and regularly finish their checks, do not shy away from hits, regularly play with a little edge/chippiness, they guard their crease and do cream the other guy's when the pucks near their goalie and always take the near 100% gimmee freebie shot your allowed on the other player near your goalie when said goalie is playing puck. They stand up for any of their players'/team almost immediately if any questionable shots or plays occur with one of their own especially the goalie. They take agressor penalty's at the right time for the right reasons, (when a message needs to be sent or a tone set). A number of players across all lines are willing to drop them when needed and not just play face wash.... okay thats what come up with quickly.. For me you see this style in the East in teams like Boston, Devils, PHL, and starting too from Toronto(no surprise their) in the West from San Jose, Calgary, Ducks(before trade deadline) and Detriot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 You missed the point like a Zhitnik slapshot. Nice. I don't know if that's going to be true or not...a lot of the analysts were saying (on deadline day) that the consensus seems to be that there will be a lot of players available this summer due to the anticipated drop in the salary cap. The guys on the NHL Live deadline show were under the impression that there would be more significant wheeling and dealing at/around the draft. Well, it's important to remember here that even if teams have to start waiving players to get under the cap, (i) they aren't going to waive their best players and (ii) whoever picks any of those players up on waivers is going to be on the hook for that player's existing contract. So it's not like we're going to be able to pick up a $6MM center who gets waived for the $4.5MM we otherwise would've paid to TC. I didn't mean a home-town discount over what some other team would have given him. What I meant was a health-based discount from what an equivalently skilled player with a clean health history would have received. Playmaking, scoring-line centers are some of the highest paid players in the game. I would guess that a healthy Connolly would probably produce 70+ points per year (about what he's produced in close to a season worth of games over the last two seasons; he may be a little higher when playing consistently or a little lower) and would have received a 4 or 5 year contract somewhere in the $5-$6 million range. Even at the low end of that, if the team wanted to do a two-year deal, the price would have been higher. So, I see 2-years at $4.5 million per as a discount versus what a healthy Timmy would have received, but not as big of one as I think his health history should have required. Plus, a small home-town discount on top of that would have been nice since the Sabres basically gave him free money, especially in the first year of his last contract when they knew that he wouldn't play. Maybe my estimates are high, but the July FA market usually produces extremely high salaries and not just because the cap was going up, but because the supply is so small for the big holes that a lot of teams want to fill. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, it's important to remember here that even if teams have to start waiving players to get under the cap, (i) they aren't going to waive their best players and (ii) whoever picks any of those players up on waivers is going to be on the hook for that player's existing contract. So it's not like we're going to be able to pick up a $6MM center who gets waived for the $4.5MM we otherwise would've paid to TC. I don't think I said anything about anyone waiving guys or signing a $6M guy for $4.5M, just that there would be more wheeling and dealing (read: trades) this summer as teams struggle to get under what most believe will be a reduced cap. If teams are struggling to get under said reduced cap, it's not too farfetched to think that free agent prices for this year's second tier and lower UFAs should stay much more reasonable than they have in previous seasons. Under that scenario I believe it would be better to have that $4.5M available to sign a couple reliable second-tier UFAs rather than locking up one admittedly better (albeit unreliable and injury prone) player for a large salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I don't think I said anything about anyone waiving guys or signing a $6M guy for $4.5M, just that there would be more wheeling and dealing (read: trades) this summer as teams struggle to get under what most believe will be a reduced cap. If teams are struggling to get under said reduced cap, it's not too farfetched to think that free agent prices for this year's second tier and lower UFAs should stay much more reasonable than they have in previous seasons. Under that scenario I believe it would be better to have that $4.5M available to sign a couple reliable second-tier UFAs rather than locking up one admittedly better (albeit unreliable and injury prone) player for a large salary. Sorry -- didn't mean to put words in your mouth (or post, or whatever). I'm not sure I agree with your preferred usage of the $4.5MM, but I certainly can't disagree with anyone who thinks it was too much $$ to risk on TC again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Sorry -- didn't mean to put words in your mouth (or post, or whatever). I'm not sure I agree with your preferred usage of the $4.5MM, but I certainly can't disagree with anyone who thinks it was too much $$ to risk on TC again. No worries. I'm just scared to death that we are putting a lot of eggs into TC's oft-injured basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I don't know if that's going to be true or not...a lot of the analysts were saying (on deadline day) that the consensus seems to be that there will be a lot of players available this summer due to the anticipated drop in the salary cap. The guys on the NHL Live deadline show were under the impression that there would be more significant wheeling and dealing at/around the draft. Darcy's comment was pretty much that they looked at the FA's that shouldbe available this offseason and what they would go for compared to Timmy and said that the best option was to re-sign timmy. From what I got from his comments was that he doesn't like what he sees in FA this offseaon that fits their budget, so Timmy will be their big signing, and it will be buisness as usual this offseason for Darcy as he sits around making it look like he is hard at work scanning the FA lists. Connolly should have taken less then what he's currently signed at just because he already ripped them off the last 3 years, instead, Darcy thinks he deserves a raise cause he plays well for small chunks of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Darcy's comment was pretty much that they looked at the FA's that shouldbe available this offseason and what they would go for compared to Timmy and said that the best option was to re-sign timmy. From what I got from his comments was that he doesn't like what he sees in FA this offseaon that fits their budget, so Timmy will be their big signing, and it will be buisness as usual this offseason for Darcy as he sits around making it look like he is hard at work scanning the FA lists. Connolly should have taken less then what he's currently signed at just because he already ripped them off the last 3 years, instead, Darcy thinks he deserves a raise cause he plays well for small chunks of the season See my reply to nfreeman, three posts above yours. I saw Darcy's quotes, and I get his reasoning - but that's not what I was saying in my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 http://www.buffalonews.com/489/story/648697.html Put up or shut up. Point a game but knows he should be more physical? He's not "small". Does he feel empowered because he didn't get hurt since his last comeback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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