fiftyone Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 While I am a believer in the "anyone can be dealt for the right price" philosophy, I agree for the most part that the big 4 (Pominville, Roy, Miller, and Vanek) won't be dealt. Also, though, I think it'd have to be a pretty darn good deal to let Sekera go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ok, I have to add this. Why is Miller untouchable? Because we have no other options? What has he done for us that makes him that much better than what we have? He didn't fair well coming in for Lalime and once the defense failed to make everything perfect in front of him yesterday- bang 3 goals go in? This guy is an average NHL goalie - he can't win the big game. if we truly could make our defense better with a star defenseman - wouldn't you think about it? When does the ax fall on Regier or Ruff too? Everything stays the same - we make one change in the offseason (Rivet) and nothing is really different. Tampa fires their coach pretty quickly- they want better results- isn't it time that the Sabres get better results? I'm not going to jump you or anything, just wondering - when did Miller not fare well coming in for Lalime? If you're referring to the Columbus game, you realize that Ryan only played the second period, stopped both shots he faced, and Lalime was back in the third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_Polako Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 He isn't a top 10 forward in the league As for the other fowards I would say all can be traded: Roy & Connolly are replaceable (Nathan Gerbe, anyone?). Pominville & Hecht are useful two-way players but I don't think are elite NHLers. Vanek for sure, i also wouldn't let Roy go either, with how much he's making it's a steal for us, same with Pominville. And you're totally underrating Hecht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 players I consider untouchable - by that I mean no other team would make an offer that I would seriously consider if I was GM: Miller - he burned out last year when forced to play too many games, but showed in the two years prior that he's a good enough goalie to carry a team in the playoffs. To my knowledge there's nobody in Portland anywhere close to being ready to play on a regular basis in the NHL, and Lalime has been capable but hardly impressive. Vanek - these sorts of players you simply don't give up, for any price. With his performance so far this season, he's already arguably one of the elite players in the entire league. Without question, he has the talent, potential, and work ethic to develop into one. Pomminstein - a young scoring machine who is also an excellent two-way forward. These sorts of players shouldn't ever get traded either. Hecht - how would they replace his veteran leadership? Most of the core of the team is very young, and they need some steady veterans to help carry them through the "bumps in the road". Gaustad - see "Hecht" Sekera - the Sabres defense is overall relatively old. He's one of the few "young guns" on D who can be counted on to be a reliable contributor for years to come. IMO Roy doesn't make the list because he has two strikes against him - he's a runt, and has an established reputation for diving that will probably never go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 players I consider untouchable - by that I mean no other team would make an offer that I would seriously consider if I was GM: Miller - he burned out last year when forced to play too many games, but showed in the two years prior that he's a good enough goalie to carry a team in the playoffs. To my knowledge there's nobody in Portland anywhere close to being ready to play on a regular basis in the NHL, and Lalime has been capable but hardly impressive. Vanek - these sorts of players you simply don't give up, for any price. With his performance so far this season, he's already arguably one of the elite players in the entire league. Without question, he has the talent, potential, and work ethic to develop into one. Pomminstein - a young scoring machine who is also an excellent two-way forward. These sorts of players shouldn't ever get traded either. Hecht - how would they replace his veteran leadership? Most of the core of the team is very young, and they need some steady veterans to help carry them through the "bumps in the road". Gaustad - see "Hecht" Sekera - the Sabres defense is overall relatively old. He's one of the few "young guns" on D who can be counted on to be a reliable contributor for years to come. IMO Roy doesn't make the list because he has two strikes against him - he's a runt, and has an established reputation for diving that will probably never go away. Why is Gaustad considered a "veteran" here. He's in his fourth year and I wouldn't consider him as a player who brings "veteran leadership". He is a player that needs the influence of veteran leadership. Maybe they can convince him to put down his purse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Why would a pretty strong effort in Pittsburgh in the third game in four days cause Darce to make a move? Because the same players keep making the mistakes that expose this team. They have to play perfect to have a chance against a team like the Penguins. They can't have Tallinder sticking his leg out and tripping Satan or Max putting Sekera in a bad position causing another break out. This teams needs veteran leadership upfront because right now their margin for error is too slim and as long as Roy is playing with his head up his a** they have about three forwards they can out out without worrying who is going to make the next mistake. BTW, the third game in four nights sounds a lot like the excuses they put together last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Because the same players keep making the mistakes that expose this team. They have to play perfect to have a chance against a team like the Penguins. They can't have Tallinder sticking his leg out and tripping Satan or Max putting Sekera in a bad position causing another break out. This teams needs veteran leadership upfront because right now their margin for error is too slim and as long as Roy is playing with his head up his a** they have about three forwards they can out out without worrying who is going to make the next mistake. BTW, the third game in four nights sounds a lot like the excuses they put together last year. And the year before, and basically just about every time they're playing poorly. It's either "the long layoff", "the second of back-to-back games", "first game back after a long road trip", or "three games in four nights", take your pick. Not really meant as a rant, just saying there's always a way of blaming the schedule. Whether that's due to a coach trying to shift focus from his players, or a lack of will to face reality, I won't presume to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Why is Gaustad considered a "veteran" here. He's in his fourth year and I wouldn't consider him as a player who brings "veteran leadership". He is a player that needs the influence of veteran leadership. Maybe they can convince him to put down his purse. I questioned why Gaustad did not wear a letter last season and then no letter this season. Maybe there is more than meets the eye when you go behind the closed doors of the locker room. Either way, putting Gaustad in the untouchable category is ridiculous. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Because the same players keep making the mistakes that expose this team. They have to play perfect to have a chance against a team like the Penguins. They can't have Tallinder sticking his leg out and tripping Satan or Max putting Sekera in a bad position causing another break out. This teams needs veteran leadership upfront because right now their margin for error is too slim and as long as Roy is playing with his head up his a** they have about three forwards they can out out without worrying who is going to make the next mistake. BTW, the third game in four nights sounds a lot like the excuses they put together last year. You didn't really answer the question. Why would this performance be a tipping point? In November. With a winning record. A team like the Penguins? That's a pretty flawed team too. They'll learn the hard way falling behind every night and making miracle comebacks won't serve them well down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 I questioned why Gaustad did not wear a letter last season and then no letter this season. Maybe there is more than meets the eye when you go behind the closed doors of the locker room. Either way, putting Gaustad in the untouchable category is ridiculous. :lol: Speaking of letters, I'm starting to get this weird feeling about why the Sabres players wanted to put the C on newcomer Rivet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Speaking of letters, I'm starting to get this weird feeling about why the Sabres players wanted to put the C on newcomer Rivet. I was wondering if not getting the 'C' had any effect on Pominville. He really took off when he wore it late last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Vanek and Miller are the only "Untouchables". Anyone else on this team can be dealt for the right price. And the way this team has been playing lately, one of the bigger names should be dealt, it might wake these guys up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Speaking of letters, I'm starting to get this weird feeling about why the Sabres players wanted to put the C on newcomer Rivet. is it that nobody else on the team is even close to being captain material? My list of untouchables is pretty short: Miller, Sekera, Rivet and Vanek. Pommer is close, with Roy and Hecht a bit less close but still in the ballpark (and all are probably on Darcy's list), but if they need to be included in the package to get us what we need (ie a guy like Brenden Morrow or Chris Pronger), then adios boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 You didn't really answer the question. Why would this performance be a tipping point? In November. With a winning record. A team like the Penguins? That's a pretty flawed team too. They'll learn the hard way falling behind every night and making miracle comebacks won't serve them well down the road. With Malkin, Crosby and Staal down the middle, Fleury in goal and Gonchar nad Whitney coming back, I think the Penguins will be alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 As a side note to this...DR hasn't made what would be considered a "big" trade since the Drury deal in the summer of 2003. Since then... It is amazing how little has changed in terms of roster players via trade since then(5+ seasons!)...Brown, Pyatt, Novotny, Campbell(who they knew was as good as gone) & Biron OUT, Lydman, Grier, Bernier & Zubrus(deadline rental) IN. That's it folks...your 5+ year trading wizardry of your GM. If this doesn't reek of a GM who is in love with his teams talent, I don't know what does. PS If I am missing a minor trade that occurred since the summer of 2003, don't sweat it. Chances are it wouldn't help making a case for DR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 As a side note to this...DR hasn't made what would be considered a "big" trade since the Drury deal in the summer of 2003. Since then... It is amazing how little has changed in terms of roster players via trade since then(5+ seasons!)...Brown, Pyatt, Novotny, Campbell(who they knew was as good as gone) & Biron OUT, Lydman, Grier, Bernier & Zubrus(deadline rental) IN. That's it folks...your 5+ year trading wizardry of your GM. If this doesn't reek of a GM who is in love with his teams talent, I don't know what does. PS If I am missing a minor trade that occurred since the summer of 2003, don't sweat it. Chances are it wouldn't help making a case for DR. Here's the list of Sabres trades since the Drury deal, according to SabresFans.com: July 03,2003 Sabres send Keith Ballard to Colorado for Steve Reinprecht. Sabres then trade Rhett Warrener and Steve Reinprecht to Calgary for Chris Drury and Steve Begin March 08,2004 4th round pick in 2005 to Minnesota for defenseman Brad Brown and a 6th round pick in 2005. March 09,2004 Curtis Brown to San Jose for Jeff Jillson March 09,2004 Jakub Klepis to Washington for Mike Grier March 09,2004 Andy Delmore to San Jose for 9th round pick in 2004 entry draft. July 30,2005 6th round pick in 2006 NHL entry draft to the Washington Capitals in exchange for Tim Kennedy. July 30,2005 74th overall selection in 2005 NHL entry draft to Calgary in exchange for the 87th and 96th overall picks in the 2005 NHL entry draft. Aug. 25,2005 3rd round pick in the 2006 entry draft to the Calgary Flames for defenseman Toni Lydman. Oct. 04,2005 Milan Bartovic to the Chicago Blackhawks for goalie Michael Leighton. March 09,2006 Mika Noronen to Vancouver for the Canucks' 2nd round pick in the 2006 draft. July 10,2006 Sabres traded Jan Hejda to the Edmonton Oilers in exchange for the Oilers' 7th round pick in the 2007 draft. July 15,2006 Taylor Pyatt to the Vancouver Canucks for a 4th round pick in the 2007 draft. Feb. 27,2007 Traded Jiri Novotny and a 2007 1st round pick to the Washington Capitals for Dainius Zubrus and Timo Helbling. Feb. 27,2007 Martin Biron to the Philadelphia Flyers for Flyers' 2007 2nd round pick. Feb. 27,2007 5th round pick in 2007 to Columbus Blue Jackets for goalie Ty Conklin. Feb. 27,2007 4th round pick in 2007 to Nashville Predators for Mikko Lehtonen. June 23,2007 Sabres trade their 4th round pick (116 overall) to Calgary the 139th and 147th (5th round) selections in this year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Here's the list of Sabres trades since the Drury deal, according to [url=http://www.sabresfans.com/history I took a quick peek at that site prior to posting my list and also did some searches. I may have missed a few minor moves in terms of NHL roster players, but I think I listed most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Speaking of letters, I'm starting to get this weird feeling about why the Sabres players wanted to put the C on newcomer Rivet. All I know is, it only took a sore knee to turn him into a of Tallinder-esque proportions :wallbash: I dunno guys, I have nothing to back this up with of course, but I get the feeling something else is at work here. I don't know what or how, but I'm telling you something is WAY wrong. Nobody turns into a pussified nobody that quickly, unless there's a very good reason for it. Are these guys trying to get Lindy fired....??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Because the same players keep making the mistakes that expose this team. They have to play perfect to have a chance against a team like the Penguins. They can't have Tallinder sticking his leg out and tripping Satan or Max putting Sekera in a bad position causing another break out. This teams needs veteran leadership upfront because right now their margin for error is too slim and as long as Roy is playing with his head up his a** they have about three forwards they can out out without worrying who is going to make the next mistake. BTW, the third game in four nights sounds a lot like the excuses they put together last year. One could only hope they see it and are willing to make changes.... Speaking of letters, I'm starting to get this weird feeling about why the Sabres players wanted to put the C on newcomer Rivet. As rude a comment as it was that I made in the game day thread about him (I apologize to any I may have offended) I'm already there thinking that myself. Not that there is anything wrong with that other than Hockey may not be the best choice of profession especially if it divides a dressing room. That said, I'm not sure anyone is sacred. Ideally you keep the players that match the system you want to build around from the goalie out. Once you decide what that style/system is (new or old NHL), you keep the players that best match that system. I'm afraid right now we have team that isn't quite new NHL (speed, skill, transition) and certainly not enough old NHL(grit, forecheck, defense)..... They keep juggling lines and many times they look like they do not know what their doing out there......Damn it, set a system, set a lineup(pick/settle the players to know what to expect), and hold them accountable. That's what I'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 I took a quick peek at that site prior to posting my list and also did some searches. I may have missed a few minor moves in terms of NHL roster players, but I think I listed most of them. You were pretty much dead on, I just wanted to throw the list out there to reinforce the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 One could only hope they see it and are willing to make changes....As rude a comment as it was that I made in the game day thread about him (I apologize to any I may have offended) I'm already there thinking that myself. Not that there is anything wrong with that other than Hockey may not be the best choice of profession especially if it divides a dressing room. That said, I'm not sure anyone is sacred. Ideally you keep the players that match the system you want to build around from the goalie out. Once you decide what that style/system is (new or old NHL), you keep the players that best match that system. I'm afraid right now we have team that isn't quite new NHL (speed, skill, transition) and certainly not enough old NHL(grit, forecheck, defense)..... They keep juggling lines and many times they look like they do not know what their doing out there......Damn it, set a system, set a lineup(pick/settle the players to know what to expect), and hold them accountable. That's what I'm looking for. That's not going to happen with Lindy though, as he is probably THE happiest line-juggler in the league, if ever there was one :thumbsup: Not saying that necessarily a bad thing, but in some cases you have to wonder if it doesn't hurt team chemistry? That said, many of these stiffs play a few good games, then start playing like crap the second they get a sniff of the first or second lines, so what choice does he have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 All I know is, it only took a sore knee to turn him into a of Tallinder-esque proportions :wallbash: I dunno guys, I have nothing to back this up with of course, but I get the feeling something else is at work here. I don't know what or how, but I'm telling you something is WAY wrong. Nobody turns into a pussified nobody that quickly, unless there's a very good reason for it. Are these guys trying to get Lindy fired....??! But, but... he's such a players' coach. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 That's not going to happen with Lindy though, as he is probably THE happiest line-juggler in the league, if ever there was one :thumbsup: Not saying that necessarily a bad thing, but in some cases you have to wonder if it doesn't hurt team chemistry? That said, many of these stiffs play a few good games, then start playing like crap the second they get a sniff of the first or second lines, so what choice does he have? It's a valid point when you add the new defense first system change on top of that, maybe it's too many changes at once especially when the game is on line and tensions are high and old tendencies surface...... The second point I have no idea on other than some indiviudal coaching and run them into the ground in practice to the point they understand that unless they want to look forward to that after every game then they better do it in the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 All I know is, it only took a sore knee to turn him into a of Tallinder-esque proportions :wallbash: I dunno guys, I have nothing to back this up with of course, but I get the feeling something else is at work here. I don't know what or how, but I'm telling you something is WAY wrong. Nobody turns into a pussified nobody that quickly, unless there's a very good reason for it. Are these guys trying to get Lindy fired....??! Not sure what is going on with Rivet. I knew coming in that he was not an overly physical player and the preseason hype with him getting into a couple of scraps raised some fans hopes that we had just acquired the next Chris Pronger. It's not his lack of physical play that is bothering me as much as giveaways and brain cramps in his own zone over the last couple of weeks. In that regard, I expect a LOT more for 3.5 mil a year. If his knee is still bothering him, he needs to put his pride and ego aside and sit out until healthy. If the knee is not an issue, Lindy needs to get his head back on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 If his knee is still bothering him, he needs to put his pride and ego aside and sit out until healthy. Like Timmy? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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