Bye Bye Bernie

[FogBat]

Whatever you say, O Great Seer. :rolleyes:

IIRC, he didn't like the Teppo signing last July either. Then again, Teppo didn't have any intention of sitting out practically all season with repair work on a bad heart valve.

[BamBam]

How much do I want to bet? I'll bet you any sum you'd like. This is a scenario that plays out in the head of a frustrated fan, but that's about it. So, shall we trade paypal information and wait for the story to be told?

 

Its not as if I'm the only one talking about this. And whats worse is that unless Buffalo was involved you wouldn't even think about this. Its something that would never cross your mind, but afer we got Kevin Lowed last year, this is what you can expect.

[BamBam]

Whatever you say, O Great Seer. :rolleyes:

 

The truth hurts sometimes...I'm just here to soften the blow! :doh:

[deluca67]

Wrong-O. In the vast majority of these trades, the acquiring team talks about how they want to sign the player long term. It's talk. You can't just say, "yea, he's with us for now, but we don't necessarily think of him in our long term plans". You don't know their intentions by reading Web content and listening to interviews. Front offices don't share their plans and strategies, they just throw bones out to the media. If the sharks' primary intention was to lock him up, they've had locked him up. Their primary intention was to bring speed and puck carrying to their team for two months.

Unlike yourself, the Sharks watched Campbell in the playoffs. IMO, they acquired Campbell with the intentions of signing him long term. After seeing him implode in the playoffs they thought better of it.

[stenbaro]

Unlike yourself, the Sharks watched Campbell in the playoffs. IMO, they acquired Campbell with the intentions of signing him long term. After seeing him implode in the playoffs they thought better of it.

Thats why they were trying to sign him right up to July 1..He wanted to come East...The guy isnt a Sabre anymore but people just cant stop ragging on him..Same with your buddy Briere who I agree with all your points on...Sometime its just better to let things go you wont get so angry about a team that is frustrating to follow..The day ended up ok..Bernier showed a flash his first game and disappeared after..Rivet is a good pickup..

[X. Benedict]

Unlike yourself, the Sharks watched Campbell in the playoffs. IMO, they acquired Campbell with the intentions of signing him long term. After seeing him implode in the playoffs they thought better of it.

 

Nonsense. It had much more to do with a payroll that will be around $47 mil.

[Bmwolf21]

Nonsense. It had much more to do with a payroll that will be around $47 mil.

I don't agree with DeLuca 100% on this, but the Sharks' payroll and Campbell's playoff performance are not mutually exclusive reasons.

[X. Benedict]

I don't agree with DeLuca 100% on this, but the Sharks' payroll and Campbell's playoff performance are not mutually exclusive reasons.

 

 

Mutually exclusive no. But we are talking about Doug Wilson who is a pretty shrewd dealer in that he rarely overpays and probably has a tighter budget than Darcy.

 

Campbell's playoff performance wasn't an implosion.....he probably was skating close to 30 minutes a night even without the marathon in Dallas. Did he dominate?, no, but clearing a puck with Morrow or Iginla flying at you ain't easy. Campbell was probably a more valuable Shark in the playoffs than he ever was a Sabre in the playoffs.

 

I'm sure they did their best sales job, but he could get more money and get back East.

[jimiVbaby]

Interesting.. something else is in the works. I can smell it.

I should have played the lottery today.

[wjag]

Bernier had one memorable game with the Sabres and that happened to be the first one. After that, meh.. I think we gave him away cheap though.

[wonderbread]

come on bridge jumpers. Bernie got us some extra pick. This was the oppisite of a playoff run. He showed me nothing after his first game.

[FogBat]

come on bridge jumpers. Bernie got us some extra pick. This was the oppisite of a playoff run. He showed me nothing after his first game.

So much for a change of scenery to the East Coast.

 

Hope he likes the Pacific Ocean...up in BC.

[Two or less]

This offseason is really going downhill fast. I liked Bernier. This is not pleasing.

 

Agreed. Where are we going to get the grit from now? I don't understand any of these moves. I really support Darcy and management, but i'm out of it now, no clue what to think. Criag Rivet is good but he won't be the push over that we needed. Losing Bernier stings. Esspicially since we got nothing for him. Ouch.

 

Not only do we need an offensive forward now, but we need a gritty, go to the boards forward as well. Dumb move. Sorry. I don't know what Darcy is thinking.

[Two or less]

Bernier had one memorable game with the Sabres and that happened to be the first one. After that, meh.. I think we gave him away cheap though.

 

He came from a slow system in San Jose to a real quick one here, he couldn't adjust. His legs wern't in it and he couldn't think fast enough. But he still hit like a train and still played 120% each and every night.

 

My problem is, the 2 guys who are obvious choices to make the roster from prospects are MacArthur or Gerbe. Neither of them is a hitter. Neither of them will fight for the puck. This is messed up.

[billsrcursed]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't feel like looking it up, but wasn't Max more productive during Bernier's tenure with us than Bernier himself?

 

I also think this grit thing has become a little over worked. It would be great to have a bunch of "tough guys" on the team, but is the majority calling for a team that can check a whale through a brick wall, and screw overall production?? It's great if you can get both, grit and production that is, but that's not as easy to come by as we're making it out to be. Let's not forget, most of the times Miller got ran last year, who was it standing over him wondering what just happened?? Kalinin.

We give up Bernier, who proved nothing, and brought in a true Captain who not only has grit AND proven production on the Blue Line, but also someone who can teach our young guys the RIGHT way to play. How are these moves NOT a positive?

I don't know, maybe there IS a reason why I prefer to lurk and mumble to myself......

[wonderbread]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't feel like looking it up, but wasn't Max more productive during Bernier's tenure with us than Bernier himself?

 

I also think this grit thing has become a little over worked. It would be great to have a bunch of "tough guys" on the team, but is the majority calling for a team that can check a whale through a brick wall, and screw overall production?? It's great if you can get both, grit and production that is, but that's not as easy to come by as we're making it out to be. Let's not forget, most of the times Miller got ran last year, who was it standing over him wondering what just happened?? Kalinin.

We give up Bernier, who proved nothing, and brought in a true Captain who not only has grit AND proven production on the Blue Line, but also someone who can teach our young guys the RIGHT way to play. How are these moves NOT a positive?

I don't know, maybe there IS a reason why I prefer to lurk and mumble to myself......

two bills drive must be tired of the rhetoric. Bernier did nothing

while here except for the first game. I began to think of him as Kotalik two.

 

wait after readng this twice I cant figure out your stance.

[Two or less]

Maybe we'll sign Matt Cooke. I can't see him being expensive. I love his grit game more then Bernier's.

[Bmwolf21]

Mutually exclusive no. But we are talking about Doug Wilson who is a pretty shrewd dealer in that he rarely overpays and probably has a tighter budget than Darcy.

 

Campbell's playoff performance wasn't an implosion.....he probably was skating close to 30 minutes a night even without the marathon in Dallas. Did he dominate?, no, but clearing a puck with Morrow or Iginla flying at you ain't easy. Campbell was probably a more valuable Shark in the playoffs than he ever was a Sabre in the playoffs.

No, not an implosion, but Soupy's playoff performance this year was inconsistent at best. That's all I can say after watching him in this year's playoffs. He had a couple good games, a couple so-so games and a couple bad games. It was definitely a step back from his regular season play right after the trade deadline, and I'm sure at that point the Sharks decided that they also didn't want to break the bank for him.

 

He came from a slow system in San Jose to a real quick one here, he couldn't adjust. His legs wern't in it and he couldn't think fast enough. But he still hit like a train and still played 120% each and every night.

 

My problem is, the 2 guys who are obvious choices to make the roster from prospects are MacArthur or Gerbe. Neither of them is a hitter. Neither of them will fight for the puck. This is messed up.

Obviously he was trash outside of his one big game. Everyone else can see he was garbage, even though he switched conferences, had to learn a new system that wasn't anywhere near an ideal system for his talents, play with linemates he's never met, and missed time with a groin injury. <_<

 

Look - I'm not, and I don't think anyone else who is disappointed with the trade is suggesting that he was the second coming of Gordie Howe, Cam Neely or [iNSERT NAME OF LEGENDARY POWER FORWARD HERE]. I just think that he's a young, big kid who brought some things to the team that were in short supply - namely grit and physical play - and I was looking forward to seeing him after getting a full training camp under his belt and becoming familiar with the system, his linemates and the expectations. So I really hope that this is a tip of the iceberg deal and that we aren't going into next season with another group of forwards who are afraid of physical play.

[billsrcursed]

No, not an implosion, but Soupy's playoff performance this year was inconsistent at best. That's all I can say after watching him in this year's playoffs. He had a couple good games, a couple so-so games and a couple bad games. It was definitely a step back from his regular season play right after the trade deadline, and I'm sure at that point the Sharks decided that they also didn't want to break the bank for him.

Obviously he was trash outside of his one big game. Everyone else can see he was garbage, even though he switched conferences, had to learn a new system that wasn't anywhere near an ideal system for his talents, play with linemates he's never met, and missed time with a groin injury. <_<

 

Look - I'm not, and I don't think anyone else who is disappointed with the trade is suggesting that he was the second coming of Gordie Howe, Cam Neely or [iNSERT NAME OF LEGENDARY POWER FORWARD HERE]. I just think that he's a young, big kid who brought some things to the team that were in short supply - namely grit and physical play - and I was looking forward to seeing him after getting a full training camp under his belt and becoming familiar with the system, his linemates and the expectations. So I really hope that this is a tip of the iceberg deal and that we aren't going into next season with another group of forwards who are afraid of physical play.

 

I actually agree with your points here on Bernier, and I was really excited about his potential, too. I also agree that he never got a fair chance at becoming comfortable with our system or players. My point wasn't that he was garbage, but more that under our current circumstances, it was a move that made sense. We were going to lose him anyway, and we needed a D-man "like" Rivet. I was replying more to the negative feedback Darcy was getting for making the move, and the fact that Bernier made the most sense when considering our options. The comparison of him to Max was more for my own satisfaction, mainly because I can't seem to join the masses and give up on Max. There's just so much potential there, and......... :wallbash: oh, what's the use. Deep down, I know he'll be the same turnover machine who tries too hard to be a one-man show. Most love to hate him, but for me, it's more like I hate to love him.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Is it purely coincidence that Bernier had his best game here when he was playing off of instinct and was hitting people and just throwing the puck to where he thought someone would be? Or was it the only time Ruff didn't expect him to know Ruff's system so he let him just do his thing?

 

Vancouver isn't stupid. To me, Bernier was a slightly more instinctive and nastier player than Pyatt. Everyone credits the Sedin brothers for helping Pyatt's numbers, but tell me, would Mair or Peters get 23 goals on a line with the Sedin twins? While Bernier wasn't a stud with San Jose, he showed true flashes. He might be the next Grosek, but he can also be the next LeClair.

 

I like Rivet as a player, and we need 2 more of him on defense and 3 of him on offense. Bernier was one of those three.

 

I would laugh so hard if Vancouver comes back and signs Paille to an offer sheet.

[billsrcursed]

Is it purely coincidence that Bernier had his best game here when he was playing off of instinct and was hitting people and just throwing the puck to where he thought someone would be? Or was it the only time Ruff didn't expect him to know Ruff's system so he let him just do his thing?

 

Vancouver isn't stupid. To me, Bernier was a slightly more instinctive and nastier player than Pyatt. Everyone credits the Sedin brothers for helping Pyatt's numbers, but tell me, would Mair or Peters get 23 goals on a line with the Sedin twins? While Bernier wasn't a stud with San Jose, he showed true flashes. He might be the next Grosek, but he can also be the next LeClair.

 

I like Rivet as a player, and we need 2 more of him on defense and 3 of him on offense. Bernier was one of those three.

 

I would laugh so hard if Vancouver comes back and signs Paille to an offer sheet.

 

Uh, I'm failing to see the humor in that <_<

[deluca67]

Uh, I'm failing to see the humor in that <_<

With the shortage of forwards up front Paille may have a great chance to cash in. The Sabres can't afford another loss unless they expect to have some rookies in the lineup.

[Chief Enabler]

I wasnt surprised moving Bernier. Mostly because he wasnt part of the homegrown guys; and the investment of off-season expectations of conditioning, contract long term, etc. Darcy was pushed to move Soupy into Bernie (best availiable), then turn Bernie into Rivet. I understand that. Shuffling drafts after the 2nd round is pretty pointless in the big picture.

 

So, long story short to me:

 

Soupy for Rivet & Ennis

 

More of the point that we all are frustrated with is that we have the Max, Timmy, Kotalik age players (mid-late 20's)that nobody wants in the $2.5-3.5 range. If they were good they would be cashing in like Soupy did, but they are not. And, not tradeable. Bernier probably would fall into this catagory when his contract matures IMO.

 

His first game vs. Nashville was awesome though! Highlight of my season. :cry:

[tom webster]

No worries, didn't take it that way. :thumbsup:

Possibly. Or it could have been that Vancouver knew they were going to go higher than that on either Bernier or someone else (Paille?) but didn't tell Darcy that, and DR proposed a trade so Buff could keep the player they wanted and get what they thought was fair value on both sides.

 

Not saying you're insinuating this, but there's probably so much more to the negotiations than we would ever know. I'd love to hear some of the audio of phone calls between GM's to see how some deals shape up.

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle - I probably see more in him than you do, but the bottom line is he's still 6-2, 225 and just 23 years old. I think it's much more likely that he's going to blossom somewhere than be a complete bust, but you never know. (I'm willing to concede the possibility that he may not live up to others' expectations, while you seem unwilling to consider the possibility that he could turn into a very good player.)I also hope this Rivet deal is the tip of the iceberg and not "the deal" we've been waiting for.

 

I never said that. One of my pet peeves is when people talk in absolutes. I always leave open the possibility for an alternative development( otherwise known as me being wrong). Darcy's track record suggests he doesn't make big mistakes, but you never know.

[tom webster]

With the shortage of forwards up front Paille may have a great chance to cash in. The Sabres can't afford another loss unless they expect to have some rookies in the lineup.

 

There are several veteran forwards out there that could fill Paille's role. He is going to have to do it one mor year before Buffalo pays him any more then $1.5 million.