Bye Bye Bernie

[apuszczalowski]

Is it possible that Vancouver was not going to offer Bernier but Paille, and the Sabres worked this out instead to protect Paille? Even I am not sure I buy that, if Vancouver wanted Paille not sure why they would settle for Bernier but ... just throwing stuff out there ...

I doubt that. I think its more likely that Buffalo did not feel that Bernier would reach his full potential and did not actually have him in their plans but ratehr then lose him for nothing, they tendered him the offer to keep his rights as a RFA so they might get something for him.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I doubt that. I think its more likely that Buffalo did not feel that Bernier would reach his full potential and did not actually have him in their plans but ratehr then lose him for nothing, they tendered him the offer to keep his rights as a RFA so they might get something for him.

 

 

probably ... like I said, maybe he got fat or just did not buy in to the conditioning plan that seems to be a big thing with Ruff ... maybe they asked him to go to the prospects camp like Stafford and he refused ... who knows, but they definitely soured.

[apuszczalowski]

This is assuming that Miller and Pomer want to come back, which, based on the history of this franchise, tells me I do not have much confidence that they are coming back.

I'm sure they would want to come back, all of the players that leave almost always talk about how they wanted to stay, but the offers that they felt were reasonable for them just were not made. The players wanted to stay, but not for what Buffalo was offering

[RuffRuff]

This is simply unreal. All the talk about getting bigger upfront. All the talk of having that big body in front of net, and then this? I just don't understand. How are fans supposed to be excited about this?

 

This is my team, and its so disappointing to see whats becoming of it. My God we were knocking on the door of playing in a championship two years ago, and now this?

 

Unreal

 

It's not done yet! Bernier was just a guy who flashed ability, but never has been, and perhaps never will be, a guy who you can count on to bring the same game every night. We traded him for two picks for the same reason SJS traded him to us for a two month rental player.

 

yea, we need size. We'll get it - wait a bit. The summer is long, and many teams are going to be forced to move players because of contracts and positional surplus.

 

Darcy is good at this stuff, guys.

[nobody]

Darcy next week: Well, we were working on some other things but they didn't pan out the way we liked.

[RuffRuff]

How much do you want to bet that Vancouver called Buffalo last night and said. "Darcy- We are going to pull a Kevin Lowe on you and sign SB to a crazy offer sheet...How about we just play this thing through and you gift him to us now....if you're nice I'll see if I can get you and your fans a couple of weak draft picks in return for him."

 

 

How much do I want to bet? I'll bet you any sum you'd like. This is a scenario that plays out in the head of a frustrated fan, but that's about it. So, shall we trade paypal information and wait for the story to be told?

[Swedesessed]

How much do I want to bet? I'll bet you any sum you'd like. This is a scenario that plays out in the head of a frustrated fan, but that's about it. So, shall we trade paypal information and wait for the story to be told?

 

 

How could we ever verify the real story anyway?

[RuffRuff]

The "Something Bigger" is that Miller or Pommer are sitting back, laughing their Arse's off holding a gun to DR's head and about to both be "Well" compensated. Remember- Or organization is one that believes "Another year in the system is all you need, so we grow from within"

 

There is no big trade coming, or major FA signing here. Its to sign one of our own.

The trade was done to free cap space, and acquire picks lost in next years draft.

 

 

Whatever you say, O Great Seer. :rolleyes:

[RuffRuff]

How could we ever verify the real story anyway?

 

 

1. If Bernier was a player that was so sought after as to inspire a team to make a RFA offer that another team is not likely to match (which always involves inflation), there's no way that SJS would have given him away for a rental. SJS knew him better than anybody and they let him walk for a ham sandwich. Darcy has always been good at placing the right value on a player, when hindsight provides the clear vision for us armchair GMs to see with.

 

2. If it turns out that there's more to this move than has yet been revealed, it's safe to conclude that all was done amicably.

 

3. Darcy has always had a good relationship with the folks in Vancouver. WhatsHisNuts from Edmonton is really the only tool who Darcy doesn't have a good relationship with - but then again, not many GMs respect that guy.

[Swedesessed]

1. If Bernier was a player that was so sought after as to inspire a team to make a RFA offer that another team is not likely to match (which always involves inflation), there's no way that SJS would have given him away for a rental. SJS knew him better than anybody and they let him walk for a ham sandwich. Darcy has always been good at placing the right value on a player, when hindsight provides the clear vision for us armchair GMs to see with.

 

At the deadline San Jose was the 'in' pick to win the Stanley Cup. I hardly doubt the Sharks were too concerned about losing Bernier for nothing, and more concerned about what Campbell brought them for the playoffs.

 

2. If it turns out that there's more to this move than has yet been revealed, it's safe to conclude that all was done amicably.

 

I agree there, but as to what I think will happen? Probably not much.

[apuszczalowski]

1. If Bernier was a player that was so sought after as to inspire a team to make a RFA offer that another team is not likely to match (which always involves inflation), there's no way that SJS would have given him away for a rental. SJS knew him better than anybody and they let him walk for a ham sandwich. Darcy has always been good at placing the right value on a player, when hindsight provides the clear vision for us armchair GMs to see with.

 

2. If it turns out that there's more to this move than has yet been revealed, it's safe to conclude that all was done amicably.

 

3. Darcy has always had a good relationship with the folks in Vancouver. Whathisnuts from Edmonton is really the only tool who Darcy doesn't have a good relationship with - but then again, not many GMs respect that guy.

They did? They sent him and a 1st to Buffalo for Campbell, who many siad was one of the best offensive forwards for a playoff run.

[james duncan]

I'd be a lot more ok with this move had they shown me SOMEthing the first two days of free agency. The fact that it follows...well...nothing, makes me fear there is no master plan or big move to come.

 

This is the end. My only friend, the end.

[X. Benedict]

I'm not heartbroken.

 

The thing that bothered me about Bernier was his skating .... or at least his tendency to run out of gas. When Ruff was asked about it, he said that he had never seen an athlete in better shape...something wasn't adding up.

 

I still think the kid has an upside, but he was no certain thing, maybe they thought closer to bust.

 

Good luck Bear we barely knew ya.

[RuffRuff]

They did? They sent him and a 1st to Buffalo for Campbell, who many siad was one of the best offensive forwards for a playoff run.

 

They didn't value him enough to keep him around for that critical period of hockey. That's the point. They didn't deal AHL prospects and a pick, they dealt him. And often, rental players are acquired for picks only.

[apuszczalowski]

They didn't value him enough to keep him around for that critical period of hockey. That's the point. They didn't deal AHL prospects and a pick, they dealt him. And often, rental players are acquired for picks only.

My point was just that the Sharks didn't let him go for nothing. In order to get something good in return you typically have to give up something good. Also, at the time, SJ wanted to extend Campbell and made him some offers.

 

I do agree that he probably wasn't going to be a player that teams were going to overpay for as a RFA, but he was not just given away for nothing. SJ decided that they could use one of the top available offencive defencemen for their playoff and potential SC run. Someteams do give up some potential future value, if they feel that they have a chance to win it all now, and SJ had the chance to win it now.

[deluca67]

They didn't value him enough to keep him around for that critical period of hockey. That's the point. They didn't deal AHL prospects and a pick, they dealt him. And often, rental players are acquired for picks only.

They valued him enough to involve him in the Campbell trade. Did you say rental player?

[RuffRuff]

They valued him enough to involve him in the Campbell trade. Did you say rental player?

 

Yea. Campbell was their rental. Doesn't matter if they talked about wanting to sign him - they didn't. So they gave up value commensurate with what they thought would most likely result in a rental.

[apuszczalowski]

Yea. Campbell was their rental. Doesn't matter if they talked about wanting to sign him - they didn't. So they gave up value commensurate with what they thought would most likely result in a rental.

Or maybe it was Buffalo giving up Campbell for a draft pick and a rental

[deluca67]

Yea. Campbell was their rental. Doesn't matter if they talked about wanting to sign him - they didn't. So they gave up value commensurate with what they thought would most likely result in a rental.

A rental is a player you trade for without the intentions of signing.

[RuffRuff]

A rental is a player you trade for without the intentions of signing.

 

Wrong-O. In the vast majority of these trades, the acquiring team talks about how they want to sign the player long term. It's talk. You can't just say, "yea, he's with us for now, but we don't necessarily think of him in our long term plans". You don't know their intentions by reading Web content and listening to interviews. Front offices don't share their plans and strategies, they just throw bones out to the media. If the sharks' primary intention was to lock him up, they've had locked him up. Their primary intention was to bring speed and puck carrying to their team for two months.

[Bmwolf21]

Oh hey I wasn't trying to call you out by any means. I actually think it's interesting that a young GM would do that as opposed to an "old line" GM.

No worries, didn't take it that way. :thumbsup:

 

If BM's theory is true then the offer sheet would have had to be less than 2 million.

Possibly. Or it could have been that Vancouver knew they were going to go higher than that on either Bernier or someone else (Paille?) but didn't tell Darcy that, and DR proposed a trade so Buff could keep the player they wanted and get what they thought was fair value on both sides.

 

Not saying you're insinuating this, but there's probably so much more to the negotiations than we would ever know. I'd love to hear some of the audio of phone calls between GM's to see how some deals shape up.

 

Flip side being that a team that invested a first round pick gave up on him and a team in desparate need of vindication for trading another marquee player gave up on him.

 

Whether this was a move to free up space for another move ( the thought that they need picks for another deal is laughable) the bottom line is that Tampa got a lot more for Boyle then Buffalo got for Campbell and I know the situations are markedly different.

The answer is probably somewhere in the middle - I probably see more in him than you do, but the bottom line is he's still 6-2, 225 and just 23 years old. I think it's much more likely that he's going to blossom somewhere than be a complete bust, but you never know. (I'm willing to concede the possibility that he may not live up to others' expectations, while you seem unwilling to consider the possibility that he could turn into a very good player.)

 

I also hope this Rivet deal is the tip of the iceberg and not "the deal" we've been waiting for.

[K-9]

Let's get real here people. Other than his first game with the Sabes, when the adrenaline was pumping, he didn't show much else.

 

Is it possible the guy hasn't matured to the point of paying the price to be a pro? Is it possible his conditioning, always a knock on him, was still an issue as of this morning? The dude was the 16th overall pick in a previous draft that hasn't lived up to the potential of that draft position. The Sabres' glut at forward made him expendable. Especially if he wasn't willing to put the work in to keep himself in top shape.

 

When he goes on to be a perennial All Star then I'll believe DR was shortsighted on the deal. Fact is, DRs been right WAY more often than wrong. And that's far more than Bernier has shown.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

If they just signed him to a 4 year $10.4 million offer sheet and Buffalo didn't match, they would have to give up a 2009 2nd rounder. Pretty much the same value as what they received, but LQ will talk it up like a coup.

 

I said in the Paille thread Vancouver would come knocking. Pyatt was misused in Buffalo and in Vancouver, he moved up big time. GM's go to the same well when something works. Buffalo doesn't know what to do with big guys, (Ruff had him working on quickness instead of strength, much like he did to Gaustad last offseason). Maybe they needed their 2009 2nd pick to sign someone else to an offer sheet.

[RuffRuff]

Let's get real here people. Other than his first game with the Sabes, when the adrenaline was pumping, he didn't show much else.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

 

That's right.

 

Here's how it generally goes in SabreFanLand:

 

Bernier signed: People question the move. "What has he done?"

Bernier moved: People question the move. "Why would they write off such potential"?

[shrader]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they wanted Rivet from the Sharks last year for Campbell, but obviously the Sharks weren't going to move him at that time. So instead take the most they can from them and then hope to revisit that option in the future.