shrader Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Now I don't usually respond to what I read from that poor excuse for a newspaper, but I have to this time. I just read this article that is linked on the front page. What an infuriating piece of garbage. First of all, I hate it whenever this subject comes up because its pointless. Why can't a town be both, especially a small, two sport town like this one? But anyway, if someone wants to argue this one either way, they should at least throw out some meaningful points/ideas, as opposed to what DiCesare did here. Comparing season ticket numbers between the two sports is an exercise in futility. Sure, a football team is always going to have more seaon ticket holders, but that is for 8 games (or 7 this year) as opposed to 41 for a hockey team. Now I'm not going to get into the specifics with building capacity, but over the course of an NFL and NHL season, the total number of tickets sold is going to be relatively close for a team from either league. How can you possibly use those numbers to state one sport is more liked than the other? DiCesare then goes off on an even more pointless path. Comparing tv contracts and how the entire nation views one sport as opposed to the other? That has absolutely nothing to do with the ideas of one single town. Year in and year out, Buffalo watches the Cup finals, regardless of team, more than any other city in this country. That right there shows you how meaningless looking at the national opinion as a whole is in this situation. I'm sure the superbowl draws incredible viewership too, but again, its a tough comparison to make when the Cup is at least a 4 game even and the superbowl is a single event. The last point he makes is about the college games. There are 59 D1 college hockey programs, none of which get any coverage at all from that newspaper. People aren't going to go to a Canisius game to see that team because they know nothing about them or more importantly any of their opponents. UB is seeing more fans for their football games thanks to the program heading in the right direction. DiCesare can point out front-running as a big source of fans for the Sabres, but yet completely ingores it with UB? Convenient. His last point about college hockey is that an increasing number of local players are now moving on to the NHL. That's great and all, but how exactly will that turn fans onto the college game when a good number of those players go to Canada to play juniors? Then the ones who do go the college route end up in New England or Michigan, getting no coverage from said newspaper. How can the fans follow them? Ok, enough of my ranting, especially since all of maybe 2 people will read the whole thing. At the end of the day, I don't care which sport is liked more. Why do we have to pick one? Why not view the town for what it is, an area with a very vocal, die hard support for both of its teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Here is the test he is probably forgetting: How many Sabres can you name vs. Buffalo Bills? As a percentage of each entire team - how does the average Buffalonian do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 i really don't think much of dicesare. here's the text from the e-mail that i sent him: bob - i found today's piece on buffalo's football/hockey dichotomy wrong-headed and specious on a lot of levels. you may be glad to hear that i don't have time to go into any level of detail on the subject. a few items i will point out, though: * it reflects poorly on you to engage anyone who talks about our being a football- or hockey-town first. to me, it's a false and corrosive predicate. * so much of the numbers/data on the two sports are apples and oranges. e.g., looking at season ticket #'s for 7 games that occur on a predictable mostly weekend schedule versus 41 games spread throughout autumn, winter and spring. * much of the impressive bills' "fandom" that i see around town (e.g., season-ticket #'s climb even while the team is mediocre) is, to me, more so a byproduct of the nfl's behemoth status as the nation's preferred "brand" (there, i said it) of sport. it is that same behemoth status that will compel the team to move eventually. and while i will miss my bills, i will almost certainly say good riddance to the nfl. and i hope to be happy at that point in time to support my ub bulls on saturdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Here is the test he is probably forgetting: How many Sabres can you name vs. Buffalo Bills? As a percentage of each entire team - how does the average Buffalonian do? Good question to ask. On average, I'd go w/ the Sabres. Part of it due to the size of the team. It's easier to remember a team w/ a smaller amount of players. b] The guy seems like a cry baby who finally came out and voiced his opinion.[/b] Buffalo is a football/hockey town. Trying to choose one over the other is idiotic. Trying to use the average US citizen's opinion against a Buffalo citizen is beyond stupid. He needs to look at the phrase he's trying to use. The word TOWN is in it. If he is correct about Buffalo being a football town, then there IS NO hockey town in U.S. and possibly Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodfella25 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Good point above about apples vs. oranges. NFL is a powerhouse, NHL is not followed in this country and doesn't get the coverage. The NFL gets more coverage during the Stanley Cup playoffs than hockey, and the NFL is in the offseason! My question is where was this article in the middle of hockey season? To me, it sounds nothing more like somebody who had no idea what to write for a column this week. The evidence is clear when you look at the way he presents his argument--not thought out and phrased in an almost rambling manner. But I guess the Bills could use a few distractions to take away from their off the field issues this summer, so why not dig up old arguments about football vs. hockey as if they are on an even playing field, or even in the same league (metaphorically and literally speaking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 This article reminded me of some of the high school essays I had to write. "Please make it 2 pages, over 400 words". To write an article about BUFFALO and someone saying it's now a hockey town vs football, but then go on to use national numbers and how the market for football is bigger (saying Sacramento doesn't know what 'no goal' is). Regardless of national numbers. Who cares what the world outside Buffalo thinks, for this point anyway. While I will watch and follow the Bills this season, if I had to choose between Sabres or Bills season tickets, guess what, I'd pick the Sabres. There is also a "vote" on the article page to cast yours for the Bills or Sabres. As of now it's Sabres 51%, Bills 49%. Let's get 'er dun!! edit: If you want to get technical Bobby, the stadium is not even in TOWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 It feels like I put more time into my post (maybe a little over 5 minutes) than he did into that one. But yeah, I've had that discussion with people and it always drives me crazy. I'll never understand why some people think you have to choose one or the other. I'm a far bigger fan of the Sabres, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to watch every single Bills game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I think it's a ridiculous argument. I am a season ticket holder to both. Why do I have to elevate one? But, um, didn't the Sabres sell out a football stadium this past year... in about 15 minutes??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I think it's a ridiculous argument. I am a season ticket holder to both. Why do I have to elevate one? But, um, didn't the Sabres sell out a football stadium this past year... in about 15 minutes??? Maybe they should play a football game at HSBC and see if it sells out faster ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM8-PL16 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I agree this is a nonsense article... I for one would take a Stanley Cup before a Super Bowl any day... unless we could somehow get Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Biscuit, Talley, Bruce, Hull, etc to all be on the SuperBowl winning team. Until I feel connected to a team that good in Buffalo, I will always rather have a Stanley Cup. I always feel connected to the Sabres. I want a Cup so bad I could die... I could live without the Lombardi trophy. I'm a diehard Bills fan, don't get me wrong, I have about equal merchendise from both teams, actually more original blue and gold stuff now but I wake up on Sunday's to watch the Bills and that's the only reason. BUT all that said, I would miss hockey a lot more than I would miss football in Buffalo the poll on the article page is currently 57% Sabres 36% Bills and 6% Bandits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 The article is poorly written. I, too, hate the notion that you have to choose. I have season tickets to both. The premise of the article is correct. One only have to look at local ratings for meaningless Bills games versus important Sabre games. While hockey has made inroads, this is still largely a football town. And who cares? I stopped caring a long time ago about what people think of me or my passions and I learned even further back that everyone has their own wants and desires and levels of happiness. Live and let live and oh, by the way, choosing between the Cup and the Super Bowl would be similar to choosing between my four children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Vote on the article page to cast yours for the Bills or Sabres. Now it's Sabres 56% Bills 37%. Let's get 'er dun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxhurtz Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I'd say it's both. The times when they seem to outweigh the other is when one team is doing very well, like our Sabres did the previous 2 years, and also when the Bills were going to the Super Bowl in the early 90's. There are a lot of bandwagon fans out there, and even more that will pay more attention to either the Bills or Sabres when they're winning and have a legitmate shot at winning a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM8-PL16 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I'd say it's both. The times when they seem to outweigh the other is when one team is doing very well, like our Sabres did the previous 2 years, and also when the Bills were going to the Super Bowl in the early 90's. There are a lot of bandwagon fans out there, and even more that will pay more attention to either the Bills or Sabres when they're winning and have a legitmate shot at winning a championship. I agree... I am totally both... but you just get more excited when one or the other is doing well... that's just human nature. But I still think that even if the Bills win a Super Bowl, part of me will feel bad for Kelly and the boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I agree with my bro that I would rather have a Cup ... aside from his reasons, there is also the fact that a Cup run is SO much more fun ... every other night roller coaster for 2 months with the payoff at the end? I want it just once. If the Bills won the Super Bowl, I would still want that Cup run more than anything. As for the story, he seemed to be arguing more Bills Town/Sabres Town than football town/hockey town ... to me there is a huge difference ... 75% of my personal sports memories as a kid in buffalo are centered around street hockey ... yeah we played tackle football sometimes and we played wiffle ball and little league and all that, but given a choice we were playing hockey ... I remember MANY times we'd get bored with wiffle ball and break out the hockey stuff in July and sweat our off in goalie equipment ... we pestered our gym teacher to play floor hockey every week even though we usually only got it for a month in the winter ... until in 8th grade we somehow talked our way into a double long season ... Point is, Buffalo loves the Bills because they are Buffalo's team, and people love Buffalo. But that doesn't make it a football town. High school football in Buffalo is an afterthought compared to most of the country. At a grassroots level, I think Buffalo is MUCH more of a hockey town ... all those college hockey players and pros coming out of Buffalo proves this ... there are many more NHLers from the area than NFLers, and there are many more jobs in the NFL. Pittsburgh is a football town ... the Steelers are #1 in the hearts of fans, their high school football team is #2 and then the Pens and Pirates fall in behind ... I am not saying that to rip them, it's just how it is, they LOVE football in Western Pa. ... In Buffalo, we love the Bills and love football about as much as your average American city, which is a lot, granted. BUt Buffalo's love for hockey, the Sabres and otherwise, is FAR above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM8-PL16 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I agree with my bro that I would rather have a Cup ... aside from his reasons, there is also the fact that a Cup run is SO much more fun ... every other night roller coaster for 2 months with the payoff at the end? I want it just once. If the Bills won the Super Bowl, I would still want that Cup run more than anything. As for the story, he seemed to be arguing more Bills Town/Sabres Town than football town/hockey town ... to me there is a huge difference ... 75% of my personal sports memories as a kid in buffalo are centered around street hockey ... yeah we played tackle football sometimes and we played wiffle ball and little league and all that, but given a choice we were playing hockey ... I remember MANY times we'd get bored with wiffle ball and break out the hockey stuff in July and sweat our off in goalie equipment ... we pestered our gym teacher to play floor hockey every week even though we usually only got it for a month in the winter ... until in 8th grade we somehow talked our way into a double long season ... Point is, Buffalo loves the Bills because they are Buffalo's team, and people love Buffalo. But that doesn't make it a football town. High school football in Buffalo is an afterthought compared to most of the country. At a grassroots level, I think Buffalo is MUCH more of a hockey town ... all those college hockey players and pros coming out of Buffalo proves this ... there are many more NHLers from the area than NFLers, and there are many more jobs in the NFL. Pittsburgh is a football town ... the Steelers are #1 in the hearts of fans, their high school football team is #2 and then the Pens and Pirates fall in behind ... I am not saying that to rip them, it's just how it is, they LOVE football in Western Pa. ... In Buffalo, we love the Bills and love football about as much as your average American city, which is a lot, granted. BUt Buffalo's love for hockey, the Sabres and otherwise, is FAR above average. Great points!!! nothing beat waiting for you to get off the bus from Canisius and hurry up and change, then put the goalie equipment on while me and my friends were already shooting in the garage/driveway. GREAT memories!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Why is anyone getting worked up over this? This reaction is exactly what he was hoping for. Heck, he even disproves his own thesis that Buffalo is a football town before it?s a hockey town, always has been, always will be so long as the Bills are around, and may even if they?re not with his follow-up of I spent hours during my teens standing in line for tickets to a Sabres game weeks away. If he really did spend hours in line trying to get Sabres' tix he is old enough to remember the lean years of the 70's (and 80's for that matter) when the Bills very frequently had home games blacked out and on several occassions had fewer than 30k people in attendance. He also remembers the reason for needing to stand in line for Sabres' tix, that being they were sold out for every game from early '72 - early '79. There is no way anyone who isn't just trying to stir stuff up can say that Buffalo was "always" a football 1st town having been there in the 70's. In the 70's, this was clearly a hockey Sabres town. In the 90's, a football Bills town. Prior, in between, and today, it is both. (OK, prior it was Bills/Bisons.) And to a large extent, it was both even in those decades where one had a distinct edge over the other. Some of his other arguments are rather specious as well. How does the NFL televising games every week nationally for 17 weeks matter when the Bills in recent years have had games blacked out locally? It's about as informative as this apples and oranges comparison: look at Buffalo's hockey ratings (especially for non-Sabres games) vs their national #'s and look at Buffalo's non-Bills ratings vs national ratings. I know that Buffalo is consistantly in the top 3 US hockey markets; I'd be very surprised to hear that non-Bills games draw significantly better than the national average. I'm not certain how national understanding of the pain that "Wide Right" conjures and a lack of understanding of "No Goal" fits into determining whether the citizens of WNY are football / hockey / or both fans. I'm also not certain how the Bills selling out 5 games (while still holding back a reported 8,000 tix (over 10% of the tix :doh: )) in the era of Stubhub and Craig's list makes the region a football 1st community. I won't bother with mentioning the college game as others have already covered that well. My last point, again apples to oranges, he uses national TV money to compare the level of enthusiasm. What about local TV contracts? Heck, the Sabres are pulling in around 8 figures on their local deal; the Bills are bringing in significantly less than that. Clearly this must be a hockey 1st city? Right? :doh: The region clearly bleeds blue and red and blue and gold. To suggest otherwise is rather silly. BD taking umbrage at one suggestion and coming back with the other is even sillier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisky Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Sounds like Bob needed to write something to earn a paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCSabresFan! Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Buffalo is a sports town period. Who cares about what sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 The region clearly bleeds blue and red and blue and gold. To suggest otherwise is rather silly. BD taking umbrage at one suggestion and coming back with the other is even sillier. taro - please leave those patents behind and take over a columnist's post at one of the region's major papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Why is anyone getting worked up over this? This reaction is exactly what he was hoping for. My main complain is that it was such a hack piece. I know several young writers who would kill to have a job like his, but instead pure garbage like this gets published. If this was the reaction DeCesare was hoping for, congratulations Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 My main complain is that it was such a hack piece. I know several young writers who would kill to have a job like his, but instead pure garbage like this gets published. If this was the reaction DeCesare was hoping for, congratulations Bob. Poor Bob - a football writer stuck in a hockey town. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Buffalo?s football passion is multileveled. The University at Buffalo is drawing larger crowds as its program matures. College hockey, meanwhile, remains a niche sport here despite the ever-increasing number of local players advancing to the NHL. This has got to be the best part of the article. There's a reason why we have NHL players coming out of buffalo and not playing in buffalo. Cuz they suck. If your a good hockey player from Buffalo your going to BC, Minnesota, etc. "I think I'll play in buffalo and expect to get drafted high!" Yea right Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 TV numbers for football may also be higher because most of the games are on the national networks so you do not need cable to get access to the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Vote on the article page to cast yours for the Bills or Sabres. Now it's Sabres 50% Bills 41%. Let's get 'er dun!! come on dudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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