shrader Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 It is amazing that they found someone to give up a second for Mika, considering he got all of 4 games from October - December. He did have a couple good games before the trade - IIRC he won one game with a pretty solid performance and then followed that up with an OTL when he left the SO with a hip injury - and it had to be tough trying to get practice time and stay sharp. We'll never know how reliable he could have been with more work - both practice and game - and who knows if he would have been able to carry the team when Miller went down with the thumb injury. That season was really strange for me. I went to 4 games but never saw a Miller start. It was nothing but Marty and Mikka. What're the odds of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 See also Chris Thorburn. I really wish the team had the foresight to lose Mike Ryan in favor of Thorburn. Good 4th liner with even third line potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I really wish the team had the foresight to lose Mike Ryan in favor of Thorburn. Good 4th liner with even third line potential. It wasn't an either or proposition, losing Ryan wouldn't have helped because he didn't have to clear waivers last year. The last spot was probably Novotny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 They did that because Mika was out of options (if they sent him down he would have had to clear waivers) and then got hurt. Nobody wants a broken goalie. Also, as I stated Mika didn't want to be a #2 badly enough that he left the NHL to start in the Russian Super League. If, at the time, we dealt Marty and kept Noronen to back up my guess is he still would have bolted. I don't think Mika would have left for Russia if they traded Marty. He left Vancouver because, like most goalies, he wanted a shot at starting - but three months after trading for Noronen the Canucks went out and traded for Luongo, a true franchise goalie who had played 206 games over the previous three seasons. Mika saw the writing on the wall, realized that he was suddenly looking at an immediate future of playing 6-9 games per year behind Luongo. If Marty was traded and Mike had stayed in Buffalo he probably would have seen more than 6-9 games per year, and might have either challenged Ryan for the starter's position at some point or played well enough to warrant a trade to become a no.1 somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 They did that because Mika was out of options (if they sent him down he would have had to clear waivers) and then got hurt. Nobody wants a broken goalie. Also, as I stated Mika didn't want to be a #2 badly enough that he left the NHL to start in the Russian Super League. If, at the time, we dealt Marty and kept Noronen to back up my guess is he still would have bolted. After the picked up Luongo, Mika at best would have been battling for a #2-3 spot on the Canucks, and Vancouver was going with him more as a #3 putting him back in the situation he was in in Buffalo, thats why he went to Russia. I believe if Buffalo would have given him the opportunity to stay as the uncontested #2 behind Miller, playing in +/- 20 games, he would have stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 It wasn't an either or proposition, losing Ryan wouldn't have helped because he didn't have to clear waivers last year. The last spot was probably Novotny. The real choice should have been Thorburn over Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 The real choice should have been Thorburn over Peters. It was a close call, but based on Peters "clowning around" ability, he won out. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Fan Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I don't think Mika would have left for Russia if they traded Marty. He left Vancouver because, like most goalies, he wanted a shot at starting - but three months after trading for Noronen the Canucks went out and traded for Luongo, a true franchise goalie who had played 206 games over the previous three seasons. Mika saw the writing on the wall, realized that he was suddenly looking at an immediate future of playing 6-9 games per year behind Luongo. If Marty was traded and Mike had stayed in Buffalo he probably would have seen more than 6-9 games per year, and might have either challenged Ryan for the starter's position at some point or played well enough to warrant a trade to become a no.1 somewhere else. Seems like we are splitting hairs here....the Sabres got potential for potential in both deals. Not horribly mis-managed. Biron peaked...we'll see if he maintains. Mika is gone. Enroth and Brennan are future candidates for larger roles with the big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Seems like we are splitting hairs here....the Sabres got potential for potential in both deals. Not horribly mis-managed. Biron peaked...we'll see if he maintains. Mika is gone. Enroth and Brennan are future candidates for larger roles with the big club. The problem with this line of thinking is we actually had three NHL-caliber goaltenders on our roster and now have prospects that are a couple/few years off. It's not "potential for potential." Just arguing semantics here, but none of us used the term "horribly mismanaged." But like the CD/DB debacle, I believe mistakes were made, and I think the Sabres kept the wrong guy and dealt the guy they should have kept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 The problem with this line of thinking is we actually had three NHL-caliber goaltenders on our roster and now have prospects that are a couple/few years off. It's not "potential for potential." Just arguing semantics here, but none of us used the term "horribly mismanaged." But like the CD/DB debacle, I believe mistakes were made, and I think the Sabres kept the wrong guy and dealt the guy they should have kept. Anyone know how Mika is doing with Kazan Ak bars ? My Russian is no so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Anyone know how Mika is doing with Kazan Ak bars ? My Russian is no so good. The information is sketchy - no goalie stats except GAA and save percentage - and I have no idea about the accuracy of these numbers, but here is his Eurohockey.net page. EDIT: On their Wiki page, the roster shows Robert Esche is also playing with Kazan Ak bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I found the official website and had Google translate the page, but it didn't come out so well. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 The information is sketchy - no goalie stats except GAA and save percentage - and I have no idea about the accuracy of these numbers, but here is his Eurohockey.net page. EDIT: On their Wiki page, the roster shows Robert Esche is also playing with Kazan Ak bars. Thanks! Nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Balls Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I don't know if they would go goalie that early this year. The need for goalie right now is on the big club, as a backup. In the minors they still have nobody Dennis and Enroth may be able to come in and take over that spot soon. Fixed it. They won't find a backup goalie or veteran leadership in the draft this year They won't find a back up in Rochester either. Dennis is horrible. But like I said before, he's got a sweet mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Fan Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 The problem with this line of thinking is we actually had three NHL-caliber goaltenders on our roster and now have prospects that are a couple/few years off. It's not "potential for potential." Just arguing semantics here, but none of us used the term "horribly mismanaged." But like the CD/DB debacle, I believe mistakes were made, and I think the Sabres kept the wrong guy and dealt the guy they should have kept. Again, splitting hairs. Only 2 of those goalies are in the NHL...The Sabres kept the better of the 2...I'm pretty sure if Mika was as good as some think, someone in the NHL would have found a spot for him to start and convinced him to stay. You are advocating that they should have kept the guy who is not in the NHL any more. Seems to me they did pretty good getting what they did and having one of the best 1-2 tandems in the NHL for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Again, splitting hairs. Only 2 of those goalies are in the NHL...The Sabres kept the better of the 2...I'm pretty sure if Mika was as good as some think, someone in the NHL would have found a spot for him to start and convinced him to stay. You are advocating that they should have kept the guy who is not in the NHL any more. Seems to me they did pretty good getting what they did and having one of the best 1-2 tandems in the NHL for a while. I don't think it's splitting hairs at all. Yes, two of the three are still in the NHL - but neither of the prospects Buffalo selected with the return picks will be for a couple years, if ever. Yes, I am absolutely advocating they should have kept the guy who is playing in the Russian Elite League now, just as I was advocating it while he was here. I was begging for him to get more starts and more chances to play. I have always seen Biron as I think he is now - not necessarily a true no.1, but too good to be a backup. I think if they would have moved him instead of Noronen, they could have gotten more out of the deal. Plus, IIRC - Noronen was 24/25 when we traded him to Vancouver - he still could have developed behind Ryan. Instead the Sabres went the "safe" route in keeping the experienced goalie (Biron.) Understandable, but I think they could have done better with a Biron deal. I don't think Mika is out of the NHL now because no one wants him - he made a bad career move (IMO) in leaving the Canucks and not trying to come back. But I can understand why. He goes to a new team where Alex Auld is the no.1 and thinks that going into next camp he'll have a chance to compete for the no.1 spot, but then they pull off a blockbuster trade for Luongo and his chances of being the no.1 were just eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Fan Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 I don't think it's splitting hairs at all. Yes, two of the three are still in the NHL - but neither of the prospects Buffalo selected with the return picks will be for a couple years, if ever. Yes, I am absolutely advocating they should have kept the guy who is playing in the Russian Elite League now, just as I was advocating it while he was here. I was begging for him to get more starts and more chances to play. I have always seen Biron as I think he is now - not necessarily a true no.1, but too good to be a backup. I think if they would have moved him instead of Noronen, they could have gotten more out of the deal. Plus, IIRC - Noronen was 24/25 when we traded him to Vancouver - he still could have developed behind Ryan. Instead the Sabres went the "safe" route in keeping the experienced goalie (Biron.) Understandable, but I think they could have done better with a Biron deal. I don't think Mika is out of the NHL now because no one wants him - he made a bad career move (IMO) in leaving the Canucks and not trying to come back. But I can understand why. He goes to a new team where Alex Auld is the no.1 and thinks that going into next camp he'll have a chance to compete for the no.1 spot, but then they pull off a blockbuster trade for Luongo and his chances of being the no.1 were just eliminated. I'll store this one away...Yes, it is splitting hairs. In fact, this situation was handled better than most recently...see Drury, Briere, Dumont, et al...let's see, what did the Sabres get in return for those guys? Here was a clear case of Reiger getting what he could...I guess the opinion part will be could they have gotten more for Biron at the time they traded Mika. Who knows. I'd say it's not likely. But again, this is where you are splitting hairs. Go ahead and fire off, I'm done with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 I'll store this one away...Yes, it is splitting hairs. In fact, this situation was handled better than most recently...see Drury, Briere, Dumont, et al...let's see, what did the Sabres get in return for those guys? Here was a clear case of Reiger getting what he could...I guess the opinion part will be could they have gotten more for Biron at the time they traded Mika. Who knows. I'd say it's not likely. But again, this is where you are splitting hairs. Go ahead and fire off, I'm done with this one. Yes, I am glad they got something in return for them instead of letting them walk with no compensation. That's a no-brainer. But I guess we're going to have to file this away and agree to disagree, since the entire debate is based on opinion and not fact. My opinion is simply that they kept the wrong guy, dealt the guy they should have kept, and mishandled Noronen's final year in Buffalo. I didn't say they completely screwed the pooch or "horribly mis-managed" the situation. You want to gloss over that and look at the prospects they eventually selected in return, fine. That's your prerogative. I'm done with this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 They don't have options in the NHL. That's a baseball thing. Both Ryan and Thorburn had to clear waivers. Ryan did, Thorburn didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Enabler Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 The real choice should have been Thorburn over Peters. Interesting thought amongst a rambling thread probably. But Thorburn to me has developed into a player rather than a paperweight. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 If the sabres are going to package the picks and move up, then they should look at the 4-5 range, and grab Kyle Beach.A skilled centerman, 6'1, that has been described as a gifted playmaker with a nasty streak. We like that in Buffalo! I looked him up online and he is all over youtube for both his fights and goals. Darcy doesn't though, and he's the one doing the drafting <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 The information is sketchy - no goalie stats except GAA and save percentage - and I have no idea about the accuracy of these numbers, but here is his Eurohockey.net page. EDIT: On their Wiki page, the roster shows Robert Esche is also playing with Kazan Ak bars. 31 PIM's in 15 games? What a goon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 31 PIM's in 15 games? What a goon. He was in the middle of that big bench-clearing brawl this season, the one made popular on YouTube. Nice closeup of his bloody face around the 115 mark. 0YGWJWoaw7A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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