mjd1001

No he is not. He disrupts a lot of stuff in the neutral zone. Just watch him. He is not great, maybe average at best in his own zone. He isn't out of position much. But again, for the 10th time, he is very very good in the neutral zone. Like in Football, a great CB/Safety in 'zone' defense to some may look like he spends most of his time 'just standing there'. Tage in the neutral zone looks like he is 'floating' but he is taking up space and is very effective at clogging passing lanes.

I'm in my late 40's. Kinda in that demographic hole between the Boomers and Y/Z.

I have a little bit of an odd one, but something bothering me. The new commercials/ad compaign for Skechers sneakers starring Howie Mandel. There are a few commercials, they are all over TV, streaming and on social media, where he 'tells a story' about him and skechers: -He wants to buy a pair of Skechers but doesn't want to pay full price. -He goes into a store and tells them he is a spokesman/ambassador for Skechers and asks for a discount, even though that isn't true. -He ends up getting called by the head of the company and gets offered a job to be a brand ambassador -Now he is a paid spokesman/ambassador and gets his discount also. So let me get this straight...the company wants to hire a 'celebrity' that is probably worth millions of dollars... that lies to get a discount, gets rewarded for lying with the discount and a job, and brags and laughs about it? All the while they are advertising to 'regular' consumers about their brand where most of their shoes cost $50-$125? Seems a bit arrogant and out of touch.

That entire first line played well. Not perfect, they did allow a few good chances against, but overall that Benson-Norris-Tage line outplayed Detroit. It was the PK, goalie, and most of the rest of the team that was bad.

I think it may be what you define as a 'stay at home' D-man. He went 'up the ice' into the offensive zone a bit more than average if I remember, but he wasn't as quick to leave the zone as some of the guys they want now.

I agree with your overall premise. However as per the bolded above....the discussion about individual players is NOT wasteful and futile. If you accept, as most do, that the management/GM/owner of this team is at fault, then it is logical to say that if someone else comes in to clean up the mess, they are going to have to evaulate the individual players. Whoever is at fault, a larger part of 'fixing' the mess is based on getting rid of the players who are not good enough, and evaluation/talk about them is part of it.

For those who are interested in analytics...last one line was pretty good, the rest not so much: -Benson-Norris-Thompson: +16%Corsi for vs against, +8.3% Fenwick, +21% shots for vs agains, +1 es as a line, +6% expected goals. -Zucker-McLeod-Tuch and Kreb-Malenstyn-Lafferty were well into the negative territory in most categories Lines changed throughout the game so there were a few combos that were hard to track as they only had a couple shifts between them. Greenway-Krebs-Quinn actually had positive metrics across the board, but they were only together for 2m49s. Also, almost 1/3 of the game was played with someone in the box, so a very low percentage of play 5 on 5 compred to an average game. Statistically, the middle 2 lines, goaltending (.759 save percentage), and PK killed them last night (Detroit 3 for 5 on the PP). A lot of people say Dahlin has to be frustrated, how well he plays most of the time and the rest of the team is awful. Thompson has to be in the same category. He scores, and whatever line you put him on controls play, yet the team falls apart when a line other than his is out there.

It would explain a lot. But if its true, he can't be playing every game. He needs to be rotating in until he gets a full offseason.

I don't know if it would have helped on that goal, but maybe in general UPL has to come out of the net more? He is beaten a LOT buy guys just finding a shoulder to go over, a a spot on the inside or outside. Come out a bit more and you take that away. Again, maybe he didn't have time to do that there, but on the last goal for sure, come out more and you take away those spots shooters are picking on him.

You could always bring someone up from Rochester for a game or two if you wanted.

If Quinn goes to the net, I think the goals will come. For some reason he is taking shots from the center of the circles to the boards more, where when he scored the last 2 years more shots were from between the dots. And in terms of defense....his positioning isn't good but it is better than Cozens. Too many times he is just gliding out there, he's a step late too a loose puck or a step late to disrupting a shot. It may be a low bar me wanting to see him go to the net more and to skate harder, but I think those 2 things cure much of what has been bad about the results when he is on the ice this year. Cozens I was done with. Effort was not the problem with Cozens it was other things. With Quinn, I think he's pretty close to being what you want him to be with just a couple small changes.

I just want 2 things out of him. Go to the net in the offensive zone more and skate harder when getting back into the D-zone. Even if he's not scoring a goal every other game, if I see him do that I'll be happy with his game for the time being.

Yeah...I don't it that way. Had Quinn skated harder he could have prevented the puck from even entering the zone. I want my wings to do what he did in my own zone...but I think good defense starts by your wingers preventing the puck from transitioning into your zone to begin with. Not only that, but he was in position where at one point he was 1 1/2 strides behind Debrincat. He could have and should have distrupted that play before it even crossed the Buffalo blue line. If you iso on Tuch, Tuch goes into the corners deep on the forcheck. Many times he will trail the opposing team carrying the puck up the boards, skates hards and disrupts the play before the puck enters the Buffalo zone. I see it once or twice a week from Tuch. If Tuch is doing it, so should Quinn.

This. In the 'half court' defense he technically made the right play...but in the offensive zone and through the neutral zone, it was for sure on Quinn things got to the point of Detroit having control in the Buffalo end. So let's give him a star for making the right positional choice in the defensive zone...but Quinn was the reason detroit had such a good zone entry and had control of the puck leading to a scoring chance in the zone to begin with.

You stress about about Quinn when his play is actively costing you goals, or at least prime chances against. He does that more than any other forward, and its by a lot. And the reaons are obvious, he is just not skating...not that its that he's slow, he is giving up on plays in the neutral zone that lead to scoring chances, or goals allowed by the guy on his side of the ice. The D-men would look a lot better if they got support from the forwards, and in many cases Its Quinn not getting back.

A lot on the season. Yes, some pretty good shooters are beating him with some good shots. But when you are facing the shooter, you are set, you have time to decide if you want to come out to challenge the guy or not, and you still get beat? That is the issue.... Some great shooters are going to beat you on occason...but there have been FAR too many times he's facing the shooter and is set for the shot and they are just blowing them by him. You need to make SOME of those saves.

UPL isn't winning any games for this team...or even making big saves to keep them in it. Good shot, but UPL was set, he was facing the shooter...NEED him to make that save.

I hardly ever accuse a player of quitting on a team, but I have to wonder a little tiny bit with Quinn. Visibly he just isn't putting effort into skating. When you watch the full replay of that goal, during the breakout exiting the zone DeBrincat was about 2 strides ahead of Quinn.....he just pulled away all the way down the ice, with Quinn not looking like he was skating hard.

After I just mentioned it.......Quinn was the trailer on that side and he certainly wasn't pushing himself to get back. For sure not a 'head down and skate' to help out. With Cozens gone, its obvious the biggest problem on this team is Quinn. He hurts the team so much being out there.

I've been watching Quinn this game whenever I see him out there, he NEVER skates hard that I can see especially in the neutral zone or defensive zone. It would be easer to see in person at a game, but he is always gliding it seems.

Maybe. When he is healthy, anyone works well with him. Just get the puck on his stick anwhere within 15-20 feet of the net. If he has a shot he'll take it, if not, he'll make a move and creat his own shot. Of course, WHEN he is fully healthy.

I don't have much of a problem being patient with Power. I don't want to move him, not at the deadline or the offseason. However, with that said, I think it would have been best to have someone else signed that would enable Power to have a few less minutes, especially in those periods when he is struggling. If it takes 2-3 more years for him to be what you want him to be, fine. But you should have thrown some money at a 26-30 year old GOOD veteran D-man to play with him AND to take some of the more difficult minutes away from him during those periods he needs a break.

The season ticket holders. If they are stilly buying tickets through this drought, they have to be some of the strongest parts of any organization. Beyond that..."collective patience"? Whether it is ownership, management....they do not seem like they are impulsive and reactionary (if that is a strength or weakness its up to you.) Finally, how about "top of the roster talent"? I think Dahlin and Thompson, at the very least are NOT behind an average team, in terms of their talent. As a 'top 2', they are very good.

I agree the 'bad at defense' with Tage is just not true, and that seems to be the only fallback position for people to have that want to take shots at him. As I just mentioned above, someone with his talent, I want taking a few more chances. Will that lead to some turnover? Sure. And yes, like EVERY player in the NHL that is a human being, they will make mistakes and turn the puck over, but I don't see him doing it much more than other players. And then there is the point brought up a few months ago....his size and what that does in the neutral zone and defensive zone. He doesn't need to throw guys into the wall or take the puck off of their stick (by the way, he does that occasionally). He disrupts passing lanes, deflecting passes or sometimes simply causing players to not make passes because of the ground he covers with his reach and stick. Same thing in the defensive zone. Its the football version of being really REALLY good at Zone defense. His strength defensively is not what you see when he directly interacts with players, but rather he prevents the other team from even attempting to do things. That might be the very reason his underlying metrics look good, the goals scored on the ice, the positive ratio of high danger chances allowed....stuff like that. You don't see him 'making' defensive players because he doesn't have to. His positioning is pretty sound..and with his size and that good positioning, stuff just doesn't happen as much on the ice because of it. I actually think he is an above average defensive player because of it.

Agreed. I only really put thought to that over the last few days. He create his own chances, he doesn't need a typical "#1 playmaking center" to set him up. Conventional wisdom among some is if you have a guy on the wing that is a sniper, you need a playmaker at center to set him up. Not as much with Thompson. Whether at wing or center, he creates many of his own chances. So don't worry about a traditional playmaking center with him, just put the best 2 players with him regardless of position who are balanced in the offensive zone and responsible defensively. Personally, I want Tage to take some chances with the puck. I want him to go in a little deeper into the zone to generate some offense. If that means he makes a few more mistakes, so be it, providing you have someone on his line who identifies when he is doing that and helps out. I don't think it matters much if that person is a Center or Wing, just that they mesh with him.