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Well at this point in his career I don't think Benson is a legit top 6 forward either. Now don't get me wrong, I like Benson and I like Doan. I think they are the type of players the team has been lacking, but Benson is far from fully developed and Doan is either not fully developed or if he is not quite there. They are imperfect pieces trying to give top lines the missing element. We have a lot of good third liners, but they all end up playing too high in the line up. There's a lot of the "same" on the team.

I am like the Sabres. 0-1 so far.

Is KoShack hurt again?

Reasonable views of how they'd be deployed in both scenarios. But we all KNOW that Krebs will be the 4C and not Kozak.

Tage @ Wing: Tage @ Center: Tage Norris Tuch Benson Tage Tuch Benson McLeod Doan Zucker Norris Doan Zucker Östlund Quinn Östlund McLeod Quinn Malenstyn Kozak Greenway Malenstyn Kozak Greenway

Personally, I think he's a legit top 6 forward as much or more than Peterka is. He'll never be as dynamic as Peterka, but he has much better forechecking, passing, hockey sense and grit. This is what leads to his off the charts analytics, he gets the puck and then consistently makes smart plays with it. He is constantly winning battles to get the puck and then actually making a good play with it. He's honest to god a top 3-5 passer on the team. His shot, finishing ability, wheels are all in a lower tier but he makes up for it in so many ways. He's basically a bigger, more experienced version of Benson with a little less rat in his game. He's a better fit for this roster and what they've needed. He helps their PP a ton, and is a glue guy for any line he's put on and is typically the best player on his line. Granted, I think if you're relying on him to be much more than he is today then we'll likely be disappointed. I think he tops out as a 20G/60P guy, and might even achieve that this year. Having that on your second line is nothing to sneer at. How I see it, he's going to be a key piece whenever we do turn this thing around. I think they need to get better at the higher positions in the top 6. We cannot continue thinking we can be a playoff team with Tage and Tuch as our two best forwards. Whether that's bottoming out and getting a real impact player via the draft or somehow making a big trade, that's probably the biggest issue with this roster that is not talked about. When that does happen, you'll be very happy to have guys like Doan and Benson that have off the charts hockey IQ and can plug and play on any line. Sorry for the long winded response.

Is that not the definition of jumping onto a bandwagon? As I've said before I've been burned too many times to get too excited too fast. I also see the fundamental flaws in the make up of the team that underly these things so even when they win a few you can see the cracks are still there and they can be exploited. I truly believe that this team as a whole is not taken very seriously by opposing teams as a whole, by the league as a whole, and if it ever gets to the point that they stop and take notice, scout us properly and watch the videos they will all see how the team is flawed and they will play us accordingly. Our ineptitude always inflates our standings. Nothing has really changed with this team, Nothing. I respect your hope and desire. I get it. Watching winning hockey is fun no matter how they do it. I too enjoy watching wins, I just don't even think about playoffs cause that's folly and heartbreak.

My worst nightmare is that you are correct and yet they trade UPL and he is in fact a solid goalie on a good team, like Ullmark. We know what UPL is. At best he is a streaky guy that can win games if he plays a lot and if he gets support, but he will eventually stumble and cost you games. We know what Lyon is. At best he is a short time 1B that can get hot, but the reality is that he is a journeyman #2 We are learning about Ellis.

Really disappointed with Thompson, and last night was the last straw for me. When he wants to play, he's a great player. Unfortunately, the "want" is not there often enough.

It was tongue in cheek, just want to keep in mind that Expected Goals is not the same as actual Goals. You have guys who bury the puck and guys that do not. Another poster here used analytics to argue that Errson had a better game than Ellis. Did we not see that by watching the game? I also saw him throw his stick to make a save, and I saw him make back to back pad saves, giving off huge rebounds, while being so far out of position that he never knew were the puck was or when the shot was coming. Do they have analytics for good luck and bad luck too? I see the value of these analytics and its mostly when you look at them over an extended period of time and the lucky/flukey stuff can balance out.

We diverge here. I think that's exactly what was happening.

1-3-1 after Philadelphia game

What cup is that? I think a lot of us were infatuated with him because of what he accomplished in college and because we were hoping beyond hope that he could finally be the answer. Other than a few bright moments it didn't take long to see that he was nowhere close to being an NHL caliber goalie. Maybe he was put into the NHL situation too fast by the Sabres out of desperation which stymied his development process and confidence, or maybe Levi just is not going to be NHL material for a while, if at all. Either way, I hope he isn't brought up until he actually shows he belongs with the big boys.

It really is, which is why I wonder if it’s even fair to evaluate Ellis based on last night’s loss. An elite goalie would’ve been able to stop some of those goals, but still.

I mean, I don’t know what to say honestly Sidc, losing 10+ in a row, 18 in a row one season, is not merely a gauge, it’s an air raid siren with giant rotating red strobe lights to boot.

While this is true, it doesn’t change the blown opportunities last night. They were in those lanes, with wide open nets. And it’s not the first game this has happened.

Sabres

What is the jolt this franchise needs?

Wow, you’re being generous. I’m going with no regulation wins. 0-5-1

Stats are great but it’s obviously not translating to goals so they’re just numbers on a website.

Your top guys, Dahiln and Thompson, need to be at the top of this list... not the bottom. ============================================================== BUF even strength goal differential through 27 games = -17 BUF even strength minutes played through 27 games = 1364.21 exp+/- is a function of %min played at ES and team ES goal diff TRpm(team relative +/-) is the diff btwn actual+/- and exp+/- %min is % of ES minutes played ============================================================== Team Player TRpm GP +/- exp+/- %min BUF Mattias Samuelsson 11.89 25 6 -5.89 34.6 BUF Alex Tuch 7.74 27 3 -4.74 27.9 BUF Noah Östlund 4.76 19 2 -2.76 16.2 BUF Zach Benson 4.45 14 2 -2.45 14.4 BUF Ryan McLeod 2.65 27 -2 -4.65 27.3 BUF Jacob Bryson 1.37 17 -1 -2.37 14.0 BUF Owen Power 0.61 26 -5 -5.61 33.0 BUF Josh Doan 0.36 27 -4 -4.36 25.6 BUF Bowen Byram 0.17 27 -6 -6.17 36.3 BUF Tyson Kozak -0.30 19 -3 -2.70 15.9 BUF Isak Rosen -0.46 10 -2 -1.54 9.1 BUF Mason Geertsen -0.74 5 -1 -0.26 1.5 BUF Jack Quinn -1.36 27 -6 -4.64 27.3 BUF Michael Kesselring -1.39 9 -3 -1.61 9.5 BUF Jiri Kulich -1.80 12 -4 -2.20 12.9 BUF Beck Malenstyn -1.93 26 -5 -3.07 18.1 BUF Rasmus Dahlin -2.02 24 -8 -5.98 35.2 BUF Conor Timmins -2.53 27 -8 -5.47 32.2 BUF Tage Thompson -2.94 27 -8 -5.06 29.8 BUF Jason Zucker -4.12 19 -7 -2.88 16.9 BUF Peyton Krebs -4.60 27 -9 -4.40 25.9 BUF Jordan Greenway -4.98 13 -7 -2.02 11.9 ==============================================================

A losing streak would just cement their last or near last place finish. Not wining more than 2 in a row and not wining on the road is better gauge in my opinion

Our shooting % is middle of the league only slightly above average. Our High Danger Chances in the slot or close range are middle of the league as well, but have improved from 6.83 to 8.16 per game through November. So, to your point, we are moving in the right direction.

It's one thing I miss about Peterka. He is an on stick off stick shooter. Too many of our guys try to pick the spots.

A 3 game win streak would almost be parade worthy.