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That is not something to me you can ever apologize for and have it mean anything other than you know you that you are a coward and wish you were not... to me its instinct... you cant train instinct... you can have people in the future go grab someone... thats nice... but if you are on the other team... knowing that there is serious intention and instinct not just preliminary obligation when something like that happens makes a difference... I can see it playing Mites or Bantams learning this but by the time you are in the NHL you should not need to be shamed into standing up for your family... it moves to the type of player and character that the incompetents that run this team target... Watching Brad Marchand go after whoever was infront of him no matter how big speaks volumes and shows deep contrast of who and how this team is made up... It is the antithesis of what I want in a team... and as far as Buffalo and its community the antithesis of who we are... or at least how I see us as a community... family, friends first, we are in this together.. times get rough but we help out... things get gritty but we stand up... we are not privileged as a community, we don't possess as a community the type of wealth that allows for routine luxury.... its one of the reasons I believe that the community has such a disdain for this team... (outside of the perennial losing and abject incompetence) but look the Ted Nolan teams lost too... but they stood up... I would say we liked those teams much better than this... at least i did... (No dont bring back TN LOL) anyways.... Lucic didnt break the Sabres... the vision of the GMs and the type of players we need broke the Sabres... start drafting some a**holes that are tough and can play... what Lucic did means nothing... continue trading or releasing away toughness (Foligno, Kassian, Kane, Zadorov, O'Reilly, Risto, Montour, Carrier, DesLauriers, Kulikov, Stewart etc...) and rewarding weak sloth and laziness.. you get what you always got... and no I am not looking to debate the merit of these trades, if they are needed etc.. just looking to point out what happens to players that have a bit of an edge on this team....

You're rolling out a list of children as this team's solution to problem that has dogged it for a decade and I'm supposed to stop being negative? 😝

Yup -- I think that is the toppermost priority (with goalie variance from year-to-year). I voted to make the pick because I believe if they're dead set on moving Byram then he can attain the RHD without also adding in #9. (If you were to package Byram+9 you'd better be getting... McAvoy/equivalent + a pick in return, and that'd be silly from an opposition perspective.)

I think both Florida and Vegas got players entering their prime, and not just any players, but a couple of superstars in their own right. ive said it for a while now, but Buffalo has become a development farm team. That’s jus factually proven now.

Zach Benson, Maxim Strbak, Brodie Zeimer, and Adam Kleber wouldn't agree. I'll toss Helenius in there. They definitely realized they have a problem.

This is an interesting topic, and I'm glad to give it a bump. It's a delicate balance that these pro sports leagues are trying to strike. The leagues and teams want and need their hardcore fans. To varying degrees, they need those fans to ensure gate revenues are solid. Moreover, they need the hardcore fans for the value they add to the brand. Think about how important the fans are to a televised sporting event -- the noise they make, the hijinx they get into, and so on. But increasingly, most people can't and/or don't care to attend live pro sporting events. With the advent of high definition mega screens, it is so much easier to watch the game from the comfort of one's own home. So the leagues and teams must respond by doing more to attract a wider segment of the population to the stadium or arena. Gamblers, sure. Kids Day promotions. And on and on. For my money, there is nothing, nothing, like the feeling you can get when you're joining in the frenzy of thousands (even 10s of thousands) in support of the home team. But I think a lot of people view the live sports experience as something they can do without, or at least something that's not worth all the expense, trouble, and time associated with going to a game. Sorry for the long but inchoate post. This is a big question.

Am seeing a few mocks where Martone falls.

NHL mock on NHL website

Agree they may have been Dahlin-less. But a world where Bill Zito inherited Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly, Kane, Bogosian, Lehner, Okposo, Ristolainen, McCabe and Ullmark and didn't hire Phil Housley would have been interesting.

I’ll be shocked if those draft slots aren’t occupied by the softest players on the board. It’s what the Sabres do.

Well we need to get the dirt bags quite frankly. That’s why JJ, Quinn, Muel, Power can all find new homes with their replacements being slightly less talented but 1000 times scummier and dirty. We need the guys you mentioned or someone akin to them. It should have been done with drafting. It’s not hard to find a kid with daddy issues ready to extol his problems onto some chumps face. Instead we get draft picks like Karabacek or Kisakov. Stop trying to find the next Kucherov and starting banking on one of the multitudes of dirtbags you drafted to pan out and become Marchand. Helenius is a nice start. Some of the later round guys the last couple of years could turn into what they need but they need them now. Give Bennet or Marchand $10 mill per.

This thread is pushing me towards Carbonneau at 9. And then Nestrasil at 39.

Given the players you listed as the core 4 that would be starting the year after trading Ryan O'reily trade following the most disappointing season of the whole drought era. The 2 years after that were not much better. Thompson and Dahlin really did not produce at a high level until Granato took over. Think of the patience we would need to have had for that team to come to fruition. Maybe 4 more years. As others have posted most of the upswing was age related. 3 out the 4 of those players started in the NHL very young. If we waited sure we would be a good team, Maybe a great team, but I feel were almost at the same point now as we were then talent wise. I think this can be a very good team with a few up grades.

Should trade it for a top 4 rhd. This team has awful defense outside Dahlin.

Put some respect on Drew Stafford's name. Dude jumped right in and ate a few from Chris Neil. I still respect him for it.

My hope is that the Pegulas, Adams, Ruff, and the players still possess the capacity to be embarrassed by their individual and collective performance over the past five years, especially when compared to what they watched in this year’s SC playoffs, and that they prepare in this offseason to come to camp with a different roster and commitment to change the culture. Playing for each other matters. Winning matters. Apologize for the run on sentence.

Maybe even inconsistently a playoff team at this point (their division is stacked), but still at least a threat. A competent GM and owner who aren't anxious to dole out 1-year or 2-year deals to their best futures (Reinhart, Ullmark) while dishing out big term/salary to unproven (Samuelsson) and nice, but not core pieces (Skinner) could easily have walked into the 2022-2023 season (missed the playoffs by 1 point) with Granato as head coach and Eichel, Reinhart, Montour, and Ullmark on the roster. Toss in a trade (let's say a 1st + prospect + something for then-third-liner Alex Tuch so he could blossom in the top 6 on your team), and you'd still be cap compliant and ready to go. You might not be able to pay Skinner 9... but he'd probably have taken a lot less to stick around with a real GM. Now... when you get to the playoffs, your run-and-gun is going to get destroyed, but you can start tweaking from there because you have your core and they know they're on the ascent. UFAs join those teams. NMCs get waived for, and NTCs don't list, those teams.

1.

Not to be confused with the Draft thread and discussions. This is simply: What would you do with the 9th overall selection?

I think you are missing the point of my post. The assumption that we had competent ownership means the decision to tear down to nothing doesn’t get made and likely a team like Arizona finishes dead last instead, and oor rebuild core does not contain Sam or Jack.

Competence would have prevented us from being near enough to the bottom to ever have a sniff at Dahlin.

Bottom line... eventually without leadership change all players on this team will want to leave this cesspool of dysfunctional incompetance... and those that dont want to leave it... I probably dont want on any hockey team I am vested in... or at minimum question their rationale... like I am 38 from here won 5 cups and my elderly mother lives here and they are over paying me.... ok, I can get that... but other than that if you are not clamoring to leave because your desire to win and not be looked at as a member of the Mickey Mouse club of failure and laziness then I really dont want you... the rebellion within to me is the only thing that will precipitate change from above... When 2 or 3 core players bolt or request trades and the others are buzzing... maybe then TP will go... Gee! we might have a small issue here...

I think you’re missing the point of the post. All of those players were on the team or in the system in 19-20. That’s a great core and at least some supporting talent (Ullmark’s much better than anything that has followed). I think even with INCOMPETENT management and coaching, you keep that team together and at a minimum, it’s a consistent playoff team.

The “he’s made a lot of perplexing decisions “ is still a problem for me. Firing JBOT and hiring Adams was really the only decision that came out of nowhere. There’s no doubt that his decisions haven’t worked and led to abysmal failure but until he promoted Adams all his hires had been vetted and most recommended by the NHL’s management team. Even Lafontaine, who seemed spontaneous was being advocated for by the league.

McDavid had 33 points in 22 games, tying Draisaitl for the playoffs lead -- both of them 10 clear of Reinhart/Tkachuk/Verhaege. McDavid was hardly a playoff bust. He was a stud in every game and series. He and Draisaitl simply ran into a better team, particularly when Florida had the last change. If EDM had the depth (and goaltending!) to run McDavid and Draisaitl on separate lines, maybe they could manage it. But when they're paired together, Florida just drops on Verghaege-Barkov-Reinhart or ERod-Bennett-Tkachuk. And they still have Marchand-Lundell-Luostarinen as a "3rd line". That's 3 centers that can limit the damage and Marchand is on the flippin' 3rd line as a scoring threat. We have to dial it back on this belief that a star player can do everything in team sports (even in basketball. Those '90s Bulls were the better team in each and every series; heck, they finished 2nd/3rd in their division when Jordan wasn't even on the team for the season.)